Important context surrounding FDev's decision to delay Odyssey - what's actually happening here in the UK

[Phoenix_Dfire]

I really don't think people understand the proper impact of COVID-19 over here. They're all assuming that everyone is safe but working from home. That's not true, even going food shopping puts you at risk (and I assume people know that even developers have to eat). That's where our family caught it, even though we were all working from home and not going out etc.

If someone catches it, they're out for a couple of weeks (if they're healthy) but it can take months to recovery (long covid) or, as we are sadly finding out, they might never recover at all. I know that a lot of people think that they're using it as an excuse but if covid has made even a couple of devs ill, then it is going to seriously impact any progress.

When they originally delayed it, I expected that they'd given themselves until the 31st of March (end of the UK's Q1) for the release date (not the Alpha), it now looks they've delayed the PC version by another quarter. Considering the circumstances, that's not bad.

Personally, I think they should suspend any Footfall awards and planetside BGS effects until the console versions are ready but they'll still have to test those effects in the alpha/beta stages. However, that will be in a separate version of the galaxy, so it shouldn't effect any players.

 

[Arioch]

I trust you chastised yourself thoroughly for being wrong too!
(I joined the game too late to join in the debate, but it has been fascinating!)

At the risk of being a bit Elrond - I was there. I was there three thousand years ago. I was there the day the first comment was posted about late delivery

To be honest, I‘ve never really been that bothered about delayed dates - back then I was getting to try the Beta in the months up to release and since then I can play the game knowing that new stuff will eventually be coming out. As long as Elite is in active development, I’m happy.

It’s a piece of entertainment, it’s not massively vital they meet strict deadlines.

 

[Rat Catcher]

At the risk of being a bit Elrond - I was there. I was there three thousand years ago. I was there the day the first comment was posted about late delivery

To be honest, I‘ve never really been that bothered about delayed dates - back then I was getting to try the Beta in the months up to release and since then I can play the game knowing that new stuff will eventually be coming out. As long as Elite is in active development, I’m happy.

It’s a piece of entertainment, it’s not massively vital they meet strict deadlines.

I think there are few of us who have been playing games for a number of years who haven't had to 'wait' for delayed games at some point. Even the 'delay' for Odyssey (as it has shifted, although we know not by how much) is not excessive, although the console delay was a surprise (I have a PS4 with ED too!) I just assume that access to the development consoles is currently an issue, so unavoidable.

It must have been fun, in the early days - and to see the same woes aired again.

 

[Arioch]

I think there are few of us who have been playing games for a number of years who haven't had to 'wait' for delayed games at some point. Even the 'delay' for Odyssey (as it has shifted, although we know not by how much) is not excessive, although the console delay was a surprise (I have a PS4 with ED too!) I just assume that access to the development consoles is currently an issue, so unavoidable.

It must have been fun, in the early days - and to see the same woes aired again.

I think the earliest gaming delay I remember stemmed from reading an interview with David Braben in a magazine (The One, I think?) about the sequel to Elite he was writing, called High Frontier. Reckoned he’d have it done by Christmas

(It was October the following year when it arrived in the shops)

As for repeat-o-threads, I’m sure some of the subjects deserve a nostalgic compilation album by now - something like “NOW! That’s What I Call An Open Letter Vol 1”

Open-only deserves a special place, that’s been going since the KS comments.

 

[LeoBartlet]

I think the earliest gaming delay I remember stemmed from reading an interview with David Braben in a magazine (The One, I think?) about the sequel to Elite he was writing, called High Frontier. Reckoned he’d have it done by Christmas

(It was October the following year when it arrived in the shops)

As for repeat-o-threads, I’m sure some of the subjects deserve a nostalgic compilation album by now - something like “NOW! That’s What I Call An Open Letter Vol 1”

Open-only deserves a special place, that’s been going since the KS comments.

Off topic but I wonder if Mr Bell was the inspiration behind that game title.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Off topic but I wonder if Mr Bell was the inspiration behind that game title.

We need a techno Karate magi emote too.

 

[LeoBartlet]

We need a techno Karate magi emote too.

Fun fact I used to play a few different games (yes forumites other games exist) and my username was more often than not Mr Miyagi.

I said fun fact not interesting.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Fun fact I used to play a few different games (yes forumites other games exist) and my username was more often than not Mr Miyagi.

I said fun fact not interesting.

Fun fact: This is how I see PvP in ED:

If we had more Myagis and less Danny ED would be a much better place.

 

[Alien]

I can happily say that all the provided timeframes are out by approximately the gestation period of a human person - behold the incontrovertible proof of proofs:

Haha! How’s about that then?

If you're going to point to the kickstarter for anything, I would have thought you'd (generalisation, not you specifically) point out "DRM free" when Elite Dangerous is the most non-DRM Free it could possibly be. Not only do you have to have a Frontier/Steam/Epic account to own it, but you have to be online while you play.

 

[Arioch]

If you're going to point to the kickstarter for anything, I would have thought you'd (generalisation, not you specifically) point out "DRM free" when Elite Dangerous is the most non-DRM Free it could possibly be. Not only do you have to have a Frontier/Steam/Epic account to own it, but you have to be online while you play.

Ah - but it says “physical DRM-free” instead of “digital DRM-free” which obviously means it was not going to use the same method as Frontier: Elite 2 where you had to look up the first letter of word 2 on line 3 of page 27 (including headings) in the physical manual that came with the game when Officer Sinclair popped up on the screen

If we’re going to point at the KickStarter, let’s talk about the T-shirt - yeah FDev, why’s my T-shirt got a collar on it and looks like a polo shirt, eh? Srs bsns.

(KS related: I still hope for Offline in some form to be somehow possible in the future after the game’s servers are sunset - it would be a great shame to lose ED into the digital aether)

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

I really don't think people understand the proper impact of COVID-19 over here. They're all assuming that everyone is safe but working from home. That's not true, even going food shopping puts you at risk (and I assume people know that even developers have to eat). That's where our family caught it, even though we were all working from home and not going out etc.

If someone catches it, they're out for a couple of weeks (if they're healthy) but it can take months to recovery (long covid) or, as we are sadly finding out, they might never recover at all. I know that a lot of people think that they're using it as an excuse but if covid has made even a couple of devs ill, then it is going to seriously impact any progress.

When they originally delayed it, I expected that they'd given themselves until the 31st of March (end of the UK's Q1) for the release date (not the Alpha), it now looks they've delayed the PC version by another quarter. Considering the circumstances, that's not bad.

Personally, I think they should suspend any Footfall awards and planetside BGS effects until the console versions are ready but they'll still have to test those effects in the alpha/beta stages. However, that will be in a separate version of the galaxy, so it shouldn't effect any players.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything written in this post.

I know that depth of agreement is very rare on here so I thought it worth sharing.

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

although the console delay was a surprise (I have a PS4 with ED too!) I just assume that access to the development consoles is currently an issue, so unavoidable.

If they were developing the game for the new consoles that might be true, but dev kits for PS4 and Xbox One must be plentiful, no? They're not developing Odyssey for the new consoles.

Not sure I quite understand this "dev kit scarcity" idea, I've heard a few people repeat it now. If it were PS5 / XBox SX dev kits, yes of course... but it's clearly been stated more than once by Frontier that Odyssey is only targeting the PS4 and XBox One (which will be 9 years old by the time it releases...).

The cause for the console delay must be something else, or the plans for PS5/XBox SX have changed. We can hope...

o7

 

[Skizomeuh]

First, dev kits are costly so no scarcity per se but how many FDEV can/want to buy, and there may be MS/sony rules FDEV must comply regarding dev kits out in the wilds.

 

[Rat Catcher]

but dev kits for PS4 and Xbox One must be plentiful, no?

Of that quote, the "no" is entirely accurate... (but, of course, are plentiful in the world, no doubt)
(from my understanding of exactly what they are - but if you have a couple spare...)

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

Of that quote, the "no" is entirely accurate...

I very much doubt that last-gen console dev kits - that have been available for almost 10 years - are in short supply at Frontier, and that's the reason console Odyssey for last-gen is delayed until [at least] late September 2021.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I very much doubt that last-gen console dev kits - that have been available for almost 10 years - are in short supply at Frontier, and that's the reason console Odyssey for last-gen is delayed until [at least] late September 2021.

We are all permitted our opinions, in the complete lack of evidence to support any other conspiracy theory, indeed.

 

[CMDR John Luke Paperbone]

I live in Italy, one of the country most infected by this pandemic, so i think i can fully understand the motives behind the delay.

Speaking of software, "when it's ready" has always been my motto. Having an unfinished product delivered causes damage on multiple levels. To the users of course, but to the developers too because they have to publish multiple patches after launch just to have the software in a "ready" state.

So no problem for me, i already preordered and there was no release date set in stone when i did.

 

[ZeeWolf]

Okay, confession time. I work for one of the largest, most profitable Game Developers in the world. Where I am located 95% of the work force is working remotely from home and I can say categorically, with complete authority and truthfulness that the productivity of my section alone has skyrocketed. It is very easy to clean empty offices

Of course the comment I made was utter bovine droppings but seriously, why do people have come here and boast that they are a software developer (I am guessing maybe 1 in 10 is actually telling the truth here) and compare their mythical situation with FD's. We don't know exactly how FD operates, we don't know how compartmented their work force is, we don't know what degree of oversight the higher ups have. Believe me, if everything a person did had to be vetted, checked and approved by three levels above you then working from home would be a utter pain the in the proverbial. Same goes for collaboration, yes you can have wonderful on-line meetings, you can correspond with emails and IM but nothing beats the ability to tap someone on the shoulder and ask them to look at 'x' for you, or quickly bounce ideas off each other.

FD are a business, and a very successful one. So why would a successful company purposely delay one of their major products, something that they have been working years on. They wouldn't, simple as that. So FD have stated that one of the reasons for the delay of Odyssey is the COVID 19 lockdown, stands to reason in the current climate yet some here deemed that is a fallacy - well how about you get behind your keyboard and produce some proof. If you can say that FD are lying they you must have irrefutable proof - so where is it?

Games forums are the only place where people don't believe you are a software developer or could possibly have any insights.

Normally when people ask me what I do, and I want to say "I'm a programmer" or go into any sort of detail I can already see their eyes rolling back and glazing over so I have to say "I just work in IT", and they go talk to the person next to me that's a teacher and has far more interesting stories.

For what it's worth here (nothing) I am a developer of some 20 years and after graduating my first job was in a big UK game studio before I went onto the more boring enterprise stuff. For some reason, people on game forums and YT videos find it impossible to believe that these studios hire normal human beings that might at some point in their life post comments on a forum in the context of a video game and refer back to past experience. I've been accused of lying about this, simply because my opinion did not match their own I do not offer this information for any other reason that its true, but not to issue anything I say as anything other than opinion.

I will make these points concerning games development that other developers may not consider regarding remote working, the number of reasons that this upsets a teams velocity is extensive but here are just a few that I can think of right "off the bat":

- In video games the release files are massive. Even if you have dev kits in your CI pipelines, example: you still have build files and assets that need to be deployed to testers QA machines. If they are now working-from-home on domestic internet connections it slows everything down. Imagine having a test console that normally needs to get three or four release candidates per day on the office network? It may well be possible to imagine some kind of remote connection to a test machine but are you going to get everything you need compared to testing against the real metal? Especially on console hardware where you need to be sat with the official controller and see the output exactly as the hardware renders it.

- Collecting stuff from outside resources. All of those on-location reshoots that were possible before? No longer possible in lockdown. Art teams will often collect research stuff from site visits - on location to museums or theme parks etc all of which are now closed. Want to go back to Pinewood studios to get some more gun sound effects? Can't do that anymore. Want to bring in additional voice talent or motion capture stuff in the studio, not in lockdown. Sure, you can think about imaginative ways to capture those assets from home but it's not going to speed up a teams workflow, quite the opposite. Basically, it hinders a huge amount of the normal process of connecting with external stuff that you normally collect from the outside world to make a quality game.

- It messes up your security, games companies want their IP locked down on their networks behind their firewalls and policies etc. Most of us are used to remotely logging into workstations etc for coding or regular IT work, imagine having multiple art teams that can't rely on compressed screen data and need the colours to appear as they do when sitting in front of their workstation. Sure you can provide everyone with workstations and laptops to take home, but you now have massive security nightmares in managing those assets externally.

..and so on

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

We are all permitted our opinions, in the complete lack of evidence to support any other conspiracy theory, indeed.

Of course, there's no evidence either way and with Frontier unwilling to provide any other context or specific reason for the console delay, we'll be left to speculate. Some more information about the console delay would indeed go some way to avoiding baseless speculation.

It also remains to be seen how they will negate the impact of leaving such a large gap between PC and Console release of Odyssey. Presumably it has implications for the current Galnet storylines, Community events, etc.

 

[dekot]

I live in Los Angeles, we were the covid epicenter of the world for a while and it's still not going all that well and it's been business as usual for most tech companies and others where people could work from home.

I'm not saying the pandemic hasn't affected FD's productivity, but I am willing to bet real money that the pandemic is just a small part of the delay. Like 30% at most.