3D Printing: Dangerously (well, Mostly Harmless right now)

[Stonn Mrogg]

There is one thing I and most people probably want and that's some Elite ship bobbleheads on your RL dashboard. After many years of working with FDM 3D printers (the ones that melt plastic and squirt it into shapes) I've gotten a couple MSLA resin printers, the ones with the vat of goo and the object rises out of it. Although mostly for production purposes, it can't all be about productivity. So I've decided to work on amassing a fleet of 3D printable models that have all the detail that I and I suspect many others want in their prints. There are quite a few models of ED ships out there but most of them seem to be lacking in one thing or another.

I've been trying to print models from KahnIndustries catalog of works but I'm still finding issues with the prints. What I appreciate the most is that his models are all sized to be scaled together (1:1000 IIRC).

Anyway, I thought I'd start the post by showing you what has come out of it so far.

Some time ago, after I fell in love with the Krait Phantom and I got my ABS filament dialed in pretty well, I printed out this two part Krait:

Printed at 0.10mm layer height, 0.4mm nozzle, with SmartBuy Red ABS on a barely recognizable Anet A8. The rear section fragmented and the pieces have since been lost. You can see a lot of detail and the wing dealybobs were not suitable for FDM printing, at least for my setup.

Much time passed and we come to The Recent, where I printed out another Krait Phantom, this time from CunningStunt:

Printed at 0.05mm layer height, 0.05mm XY resolution with Rich_OPTO blue resin. This model has not been optimized. You can see the hardpoint bays are open, showing a support pillar, and much of the detail was too fine even for a resin printer, at least for my current setup. Much of the fails come from poor support structures which I am coming to learn is an art and a science.

Undaunted, I tried to print out a Cobra MKIII and a Sidewinder. The Cobra ripped off the supports and stuck to the vat but the Sidewinder held on:

Again, many too-fine structures and poor support layout. Incredible detail was retained, much not really captured by my ancient S7 camera.

The Cobra survived the next print attempt:

I changed some of the supports and this time it did not rip free. Still subpar IMO. I will have to go in and do a little fattening up of this and that I think.

The quest continues.

_______________

edit-

I've ceased working on this project for a couple of reasons, mostly concerning making time for this project, but the breaker was my Odyssey Alpha experience. I now feel Frontier is no different than any other software company, which is completely understandable, yet heartbreaking, and I feel I have been fooled a few times too many and that's enough. To put it short, it is hard to rationalize overextending myself and putting everything extra into something that I can't fully get behind or believe in.

My apologies to those who were hoping for some tangible results from what became a series of self-indulgent posts. o7 and fly nutso, CMDRs.

 

[Qualityoflife]

Can u use that to make ship kits....frontier have failed with flying colors on that one?

 

[Marklar_]

Nice detail on the models, and I love how you're doing it to scale! Too bad the printer isn't quite up to doing the fine details.

 

[scadh]

I don't have anything valuable to add (per usual), I just wanted to point out the brilliance of the name "Cunning Stunt", designer of that 2nd model you printed.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Very nice. I'd love to get my hands on some of those and paint them up.

 

[metatheurgist]

Maybe it's just me...but they remind me of soap carvings.

 

[Stonn Mrogg]

I had a mass shipment of resins arrive and there was testing, testing, printing of Barbie furniture, and more testing. Sadly there was not a lot of good news to report until I poured out some of Anycubic's Grey standard resins.

FWIW I have personal problems giving any accolades to Anycubic because of the horrific customer service they offer. Just check out their Facebook AKA The Complaint Page. That being said I own an original Photon printer of theirs as well which is not bad for a starter printer so... I guess their products are ok, but man, pray you never need their assistance.

Plowing on, this Anycubic grey resin has better contrast for photographing (read: not so soap carving-y) and gave a very clean test matrix print. However a print of the same file that made the "successful" Cobra and Sidey print failed miserably. I made some adjustments to the model angles and supports, of which I thought I'd take a couple of screenshot for those not familiar with the process:

The whole thing is upside down, really, but this shows what the models look like with the breakaway support structures (in orange). The supports give the print something to hold onto when it suddenly tries to make something out in space that didn't have any material next to it. If it doesn't do that the new bits just stick to the bottom of the vat.

From the underside (topside?) you can see how the software highlights questionable overhangs in a yellow and orange checkerboard pattern. I did some auto generating for some supports and hand-placed others just for a test. The small size of the ships makes it tough to fit enough supports in there. If I make the supports smaller to fit more in then they are too skinny and they rip apart.

This is a picture of the print through the yellowish UV filter cover paused at 19% complete. The Sidey is left of center, Cobra is to the right:

Before they are cleaned and plucked off the build plate:

I dug out a macro lens for these photos. The Cobra came out... better:

The Sidewinder came out much improved from the last try:

All prints were done at 0.05mm layer height so you can see some obvious stair stepping going on. I can drive the height to 0.01mm but the print time goes from 2hrs to 9hrs. I'll save that for when things are looking more like it's worth the time.

I still have five more resins I've yet to try. It looks like I need a really rigid resin for this project and I've not really been buying with that in mind. But things are looking up.

o7

 

[Stonn Mrogg]

Can u use that to make ship kits....frontier have failed with flying colors on that one?

In theory, yes, but I've yet to see anyone extract ship kit components from the game so I would have to ARX up, buy them, and hand model them. Possible, but not likely at this point.

 

[Bantha]

Loving these posts!

I’m getting my first 3D printer as a birthday present in March. Very much looking forward to printing my fleet in 1:1000 scale.
And who knows, eventually, maybe a fleet carrier at 1:1000 (will be about 2m in length I think!).

Currently looking at the Creality CR-10s Pro V2. Is this something you would recommend? And if not, what other options should I be looking at?

Thanks

 

[Uvelius Sång]

That reminds me to ask D0lphin for her 3D Fuel Rat file ... here is the scetch: https://www.fuelratart.org/ratfridge/64-Fuel-Rats-Bobblehead-by-CMDR-D0lphin.html

 

[Stonn Mrogg]

Loving these posts!

I’m getting my first 3D printer as a birthday present in March. Very much looking forward to printing my fleet in 1:1000 scale.
And who knows, eventually, maybe a fleet carrier at 1:1000 (will be about 2m in length I think!).

Currently looking at the Creality CR-10s Pro V2. Is this something you would recommend? And if not, what other options should I be looking at?

Thanks

I'm glad someone has some interest. I wasn't sure... Thank you, CMDR!

But yes. Creality makes a wonderful machine, the Pro V2 seems right in line. All I would suggest is a print bed treated with carborundum. It is a game changer. The only issue that could arise is that the surface that prints on the bed receives a light checkerboard pattern which could be of concern in some situations. Happy birthday

 

[Stonn Mrogg]

That reminds me to ask D0lphin for her 3D Fuel Rat file ... here is the scetch: https://www.fuelratart.org/ratfridge/64-Fuel-Rats-Bobblehead-by-CMDR-D0lphin.html

That... is... awesome! I wish I had modeling skills like that. The Fuel Rats deserve some proper attention like this. Well done @D0lphin

 

[Stonn Mrogg]

With the new grey resin performing nominally, I thought I'd try to see if I could make some of the models I'm using more printable.

To please The Lord Braben, I started work on perfecting the Cobra MKIII. The model I chose looks to be perfectly detailed but it is far from "fixed" for printing, as was stated in the file name.

The thruster fins were the first thing on the to-do list as I wasn't sure if they were too thin to print or maybe something else. They do print out to some degree but they never stay attached to the model through the support removal process. Upon closer inspection with Meshmixer (a great model editing program), I noticed this:

Take note of the hinges and the gaps all around them. This was how all the vertical fins were. The horizontal fins seem to be connected but not very much. So I went around and extruded some face groups into the gaps to shore up the spaces:

It's not elegant but a crude test to see if they will print better.


At this point, I should note that I have become enchanted by the speedy-yet-versatile Imperial Courier. Love... love love. That being said, it was definitely time to print one out. I also thought I'd give a two-part model a chance instead. From the outset, it would appear to be easier to print but I'm not a fan of seams that seem (ha!) to be unavoidable with two-part models. Maybe I can make some alignment pegs and holes built into the pieces to lessen that effect if the prints are indeed more successful.

So here's the build plate:

A little more detail on the supports; auto-gen and hand placed:

I went nuts on manually placed supports with the iCourier but I pretty much left the Cobra alone.


So I fire up the Proxima and away it goes. Sadly the Cobra is once again not up to the task of holding on and becomes one with the vat. The iCourier pulled through though. A shame that Cobra didn't survive:

The two parts were fused with a bit of resin cured under UV. I broke off one nacelle during post-processing which I repaired in the same way. I was disappointed to see how huge the seam was between the parts. The model itself looks pretty good though. I'm getting tired of seeing those stairsteps...

Back to one-piece models, it seems.

 

[Qualityoflife]

Maybe it's just me...but they remind me of soap carvings.

Try our exclusive line of scented comfort ED soaps for the pirate in you (though development is semi-soft not to be misconstrued as medical E.D.)
We have imperial splash, federal fruit, thargoid musk, barnacle krait coffee, sidewinder orange and a free bar of ASP scoutless with purchase of two or more.

 

[Shiro Akai]

Well, I'm still new to 3D printing as I got my own machine just few months ago (Creality Ender 3 v2 if anyone interested) after rather long process of picking and choosing, followed by wait time before it was in stock. It's a FDm type and I feed it with PLA. Resin printing looks like magic so won't comment on that - I'll just say I admire your resolve with pursuing better prints. I was tempted to print something on my machine but seing all those details and knowing how PLA works I scrapped that idea. Still learning and tweaking while my prints start tto look better.

Keep going and keep posting.

 

[Stonn Mrogg]

I thought I'd do something different and print a ship I don't own. Mostly because it's bigger and I feel most of the problems I'm having is because the models are so small. I need some success here lol I downloaded a model of the Chieftain, hollowed it out to save material, and threw another Cobra on the build plate:

That dang Cobra, but the rest is promising, albeit shrouded in mystery.

There is a lot of "flash" from the multitude of supports (I spent no time being careful about removal) but I got to say it looks pretty good.

 

[Stonn Mrogg]

Well, I'm still new to 3D printing as I got my own machine just few months ago (Creality Ender 3 v2 if anyone interested) after rather long process of picking and choosing, followed by wait time before it was in stock. It's a FDm type and I feed it with PLA. Resin printing looks like magic so won't comment on that - I'll just say I admire your resolve with pursuing better prints. I was tempted to print something on my machine but seing all those details and knowing how PLA works I scrapped that idea. Still learning and tweaking while my prints start tto look better.

Keep going and keep posting.

The Ender 3 is a great machine. You aren't totally without options with an FDM printer. I would get a 0.2-0.25mm nozzle, tune the machine to get nice 0.1mm layer heights, run it slow and with a cooling fan, and you can get some surprising results. Not all this good detail is reserved for resin printers.

edit-

And thanks for the encouragement o7

 

[Stonn Mrogg]

Between RL and the engaging CGs I have been light on time for the ED-3D project. But not totally stagnant.

Most of the time recently spent has gone into adjusting files, test printing, and attempting to rip models from the game. Each of these in turn.

Still fixated on the Krait Phantom, I've done a lot of tinkering with the engine flaps, wing antennae, and how to support the whole thing. Very fussy. I increased the thickness of the engine flaps by 0.05mm (one pixel wider) and got this:

With a pic of the previous unaltered model:

Perhaps another pixel width and we'll have something. Those support nibs sure are ugly, though.

I had also messed with attaching the antennae to the main part of the ship as they were separated when I looked closer but they proved too weak to stay attached. A small bit printed but I rapidly broke it off during support removal. I also ran the layer height at just 0.01mm so the stairstepping has been reduced but it took... 19 hours I think? Quite awhile.

To save resin I extracted the pylons from the file, extruded them out from their normals (made thicker) by 0.06mm IIRC, and, with no great feeling of success awaiting, fired up the Proxima. To my great surprise 11 hours later, I got these:

Pinky for scale:

They came out very nice without much loss of detail from the increased thickness. The white crumbs are chunks of precipitated resin from the wash bath. The wash bath needs a wash I guess TBH I was getting a little dismayed from the lack of results, but at last, a little candy for the eyes. Ahhh lol

You can see there are holes in the underside and there are other anomalies in the model that are difficult to fix with the software at my disposal. In this model a fix was done I think to some top paneling on either side of the midline, and you can see some angled line sort of artifacting there. I don't like it:

I think I need pure files to work with. I can't seem to get any ripping program to work for me so the quest is on to find a source of pure, unaltered ripped models. Shoot me a message if you can help, o7

 

[Bottom Hat]

I have no idea on the plastics used in 3d printers, but this came to mind - can you combine your models with parts from styrene kits using the old poly glues?

 

[Stonn Mrogg]

Oh, man, you mean the stuff you can huff? I recall... Testors, half green and white metal squeeze tube, transparent highly-head spinning material inside. Hmm... I know those made a sort of welded bond by melting the polystyrene. Or Ambroid glue maybe? (edit- Ambroid was for my wood planes, nm) The resins used in these printers are predominantly a mix of ester monomers with a little bit of photo accelerator (hardener) and stuff that adds flex to the final polyester. I know Gorilla Glue works and I've read super glue also works but I've only used raw resin and a quick UV blast to harden it myself. I'll have to look into it.

I can infuse the model with these new wing pylon jammies so I won't have to worry about attaching them, if that was the direction of your brainstorm. Adhesives are a peculiar interest of mine, however. Consider interest piqued.