Does anyone know the value changes for exploration? been searching for it and unable to find it anywhere. Thanks ahead of time anyone who does!
New exploration payouts
- Thread starter Sickinger_Immortal
- Start date
Couple of links here;
elite-dangerous.fandom.com
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/avsszo/updated_visual_guide_to_scan_values_in_33/
Explorer
Explorer is an archetypal pilot career recognized by the Pilots Federation. The galaxy can be explored with near unrestricted freedom. Go sightseeing by observing the beautiful vistas in deep space. Gain credit for being the first to discover unique star systems. Walk on pristine planets with...
elite-dangerous.fandom.com
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/avsszo/updated_visual_guide_to_scan_values_in_33/
Those are the old payouts. Thank you though! They might not be posted anywhere yet. they apparently nerfd honking payments but majorly buffed surface scanning and first discovery the same time they increased combat pay
Really? Let me check. Seems to be around the same value, I haven't heard anything about surface scanning and first discovery being buffed. Do you have a link to your source? That would be pretty big news if that was the case and be all over the exploration forum.
It was from multiple big ED streamers and youtubers. thats why i have been looking. maybe they are wrong?
So far all i am able to find is mining nerfs and combat/xeno pay increases. maybe they were mistaken.
Frontier said they'll look at exploration as part of the rebalancing campaign, but they haven't gotten there yet. They suspended said campaign at the holidays last year, and said they'll be resuming it this year; it's January 21 now, and there has been no word on the subject since.
I was planning on asking them about this yesterday, as part of the weekly AMA sessions, but then they suspended those too. Oh well.
So, no, there have been no changes yet, I guess some of those streamers just jumped the gun or something.
I was planning on asking them about this yesterday, as part of the weekly AMA sessions, but then they suspended those too. Oh well.
So, no, there have been no changes yet, I guess some of those streamers just jumped the gun or something.
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Is exploration deemed in need of a buff ? To me the payouts seem quite good, the vast majority of my funds where made during the few short exploration trips I did.
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They just said rebalanced, so not necessarily a buff. Although we haven't heard anything about it since before Christmas so it may be on hold. As you said exploration payouts for undiscovered objects are pretty good currently (although I wouldn't say no to more credits
) although there are some that think already discovered objects shouldn't pay as much/pay out at all so we might see some sort of change there.But they do already pay less, no first tag bonus. But I guess there could be a good argument made for them not paying anything. To me the ability to 'rediscover' objects is nonsense anyway. Once reported to UC its common knowledge, done.
Exploration needs to be made more responsive to the content you're exploring.
Right now it's simplistic and all-or-nothing values where certain types are worth millions and the others are worth pennies. (Consider that most people don't even bother surface mapping HMCs if they're not terraformable, because the extra 120k the surface map gets you isn't worth the flight time).
I would say that exploration kinda does need a buff, but most of it should come in the form of making it more worthwhile to map more bodies. Increase the value of a surface map on HMCs to about 500k from 160 and make any body with geological features pay +250-500k for a surface map depending on number and +1M for biological features (which are much rarer).
Also put a price on finding hotspots in rings.
Full map of all planets in a system should also have a pretty big bonus on. Right now it's basically never worth doing.
True, but the base value is still the same as an unexplored object before bonuses are added. I agree with you that the ability to redicover objects is kinda nonsense and because of that I'd like to see the actual base value of discovered objects reduced to encourage people to seek undiscovered planets rather than just farming the road to riches. Maybe the base value of undiscovered objects could be increased to drive this point further.
I don't think the value of discovered objects should be removed completely though. It's a good source of income for new players and lore wise it could easilly be explained as providing new or updated information about an already discovered object.
Personally, I made some a suggestion that exploration should reward credit vouchers before, but on the topic of rebalancing existing things, I would suggest:
1. Making undiscovered bodies pay much more than discovered ones do, to discourage farming already-discovered bodies as "exploration"
Currently, the fastest way to earn exploration credits and rank progression is to grind out already-discovered bodies, and the recent ammonia world CG also proved that that is (still) the way to go for exploration CGs. You know, as opposed to going exploring for undiscovered bodies.
Making undiscovered bodies be worth many more credits than discovered ones should help with this.
2. Making the FSS payout larger than the DSS payout, so that people shouldn't feel they are forced to waste time on DSS-ing not-landable bodies that have no POI on them
Players should fly to planets that they want to explore, and not for more credits. Unfortunately, the current payouts heavily encourage mapping WWTCs and ELWs, which involves wasting several minutes supercruising, then playing a highly repetitive minigame to get more credits and a second tag. Not to explore the planets themselves. Instead, it would be better if the FSS scan gave the larger part of the credits, and the DSS mapping the smaller ones (say, a 80%-20% split), so that folks who are in it for the credits and tags can still get more, but those who'd rather explore could be on their way when there's nothing more to explore at the body.
3. Rebalancing body payouts with a more consistent system, with rarity in mind
Currently the system is all over the place. Rare "exotic" stars pay peanuts, WWTCs are much more common than AWs or ELWs, yet pay the same as ELWs (which need no terraforming), and AWs pay much less... and so on. This has been a problem since launch, when the payouts appear to have been set without knowing the galaxy well enough. However, plenty of systems have been generated since then, so a more consistent scheme could be put in place.
4. Adjusting rank progression to match the earlier pace, and also award more points for the stuff that's not selling data
I think the majority of people would agree now that exploration rank progression has been too quick after Beyond: Chapter Four. The requirements weren't adjusted to keep pace with the massive payout buffs then, but as part of a rebalancing, we should return to earlier levels, not the current one where you can go from Aimless to Elite in something like ten hours.
Also, while activities other than selling exploration data also award progression points (driving the SRV in distant systems, discovering materials, Codex entries, and so on), these are so low that most people don't even realise they are there.
All of these are about modifying existing values, not about implementing new features: just a matter of rebalancing.
1. Making undiscovered bodies pay much more than discovered ones do, to discourage farming already-discovered bodies as "exploration"
Currently, the fastest way to earn exploration credits and rank progression is to grind out already-discovered bodies, and the recent ammonia world CG also proved that that is (still) the way to go for exploration CGs. You know, as opposed to going exploring for undiscovered bodies.
Making undiscovered bodies be worth many more credits than discovered ones should help with this.
2. Making the FSS payout larger than the DSS payout, so that people shouldn't feel they are forced to waste time on DSS-ing not-landable bodies that have no POI on them
Players should fly to planets that they want to explore, and not for more credits. Unfortunately, the current payouts heavily encourage mapping WWTCs and ELWs, which involves wasting several minutes supercruising, then playing a highly repetitive minigame to get more credits and a second tag. Not to explore the planets themselves. Instead, it would be better if the FSS scan gave the larger part of the credits, and the DSS mapping the smaller ones (say, a 80%-20% split), so that folks who are in it for the credits and tags can still get more, but those who'd rather explore could be on their way when there's nothing more to explore at the body.
3. Rebalancing body payouts with a more consistent system, with rarity in mind
Currently the system is all over the place. Rare "exotic" stars pay peanuts, WWTCs are much more common than AWs or ELWs, yet pay the same as ELWs (which need no terraforming), and AWs pay much less... and so on. This has been a problem since launch, when the payouts appear to have been set without knowing the galaxy well enough. However, plenty of systems have been generated since then, so a more consistent scheme could be put in place.
4. Adjusting rank progression to match the earlier pace, and also award more points for the stuff that's not selling data
I think the majority of people would agree now that exploration rank progression has been too quick after Beyond: Chapter Four. The requirements weren't adjusted to keep pace with the massive payout buffs then, but as part of a rebalancing, we should return to earlier levels, not the current one where you can go from Aimless to Elite in something like ten hours.
Also, while activities other than selling exploration data also award progression points (driving the SRV in distant systems, discovering materials, Codex entries, and so on), these are so low that most people don't even realise they are there.
All of these are about modifying existing values, not about implementing new features: just a matter of rebalancing.
Exploration is the only part of the game that currently has a theoretical upper limit - there is a finite number of new things to find. Trade goods are infinite, as are mined goods, as are NPCs to shoot. Obviously in practice we'll never discover the entire galaxy, but even so the distance required to travel to find something new is getting further and further. Exploration still needs to be something that a newish player can try out to see if it's for them, and making already discovered bodies have zero value will only discourage all but the most driven.
Weren't payouts buffed significantly after the FSS was introduced?
Weren't payouts buffed significantly after the FSS was introduced?
The distance might be increasing, but in practice, the number of jumps, or the time required to reach space with undiscovered systems (not bodies!), is mostly stagnating - or if you count fleet carriers, then it actually decreased.
I did some data analysis on this topic back in 2019, see here. I just updated the numbers quickly, turns out that nowadays, you'd need to go about 800 ly to find some undiscovered systems. Which is 12 jumps with a decent Asp, or 11 jumps if you have the CG-exclusive FSD... or two jumps with a carrier. (Your own ship would still be faster though, due to the 15 minute cooldown on the carrier.)
That's hardly far - and next to nothing when viewed against the 5,000 ly requirement for Prof. Palin. Compared to that, I don't think there'd be any issue of players getting discouraged from having to go far for undiscovered systems (bodies would be even closer), no.
Plus I'd be willing to bet that Odyssey will bring some increased jump ranges as well, thereby decreasing the number of jumps that have to be made.
That would basically make the DSS useless. If the FSS gave you 80% of the value you would always be better just moving on rather than investigating anything because you could cover systems many many times faster that way.
Like with most systems in Elite any changes should prioritise rewarding more engagement with them not less. The balance needs shifting the other way, with more value on the DSS for more bodies.
You appear to think that the primary use of the DSS is to give Commanders more credits and an extra tag. I'd say that its primary use is to give them the locations of POIs on landable bodies, enabling them to explore more.
But if the body in question is not landable or has no POIs, then you aren't searching for something more, because there is nothing more; you're only flying in a straight line and then grinding out a repetitive minigame to get many more credits and a second tag. Are you sure that's what should be encouraged, as opposed to encouraging looking for more new stuff?
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That could be equally claimed for the FSS though. You watch a loading screen, honk, then do a repetitive minigame. It just sounds like you want to do that one more often and get all the rewards for it without having to invest time flying to things. If they did that they'd slash all the payouts massively to account for how much faster you could churn systems.
Leaving aside that that's not what I said, there's something important in what you wrote. You call doing nothing but flying in a straight line as investing time: me, I call it wasting time. Now with the SC assist, you can even leave the game running, do something else and get back to it later, without the risk of overshooting your target - the exact opposite of engaging gameplay. Also, back when the FSS was revealed, the devs specifically named cutting down on time when you're doing nothing as one of the design goals.
A common theme I've heard from players new to exploration is that if they map everything in a system, it inevitably feels like they wasted a lot of time doing that.
So yeah, the DSS should be something you want to do to explore more, not to grind out some more credits and tags. The chief reward ought to be the locations that you can fly down to explore, not just to see a number going much higher. Higher? Sure. Several times higher? Nah.
Indeed. Frontier should set a maximum income rate target, and then adjust things accordingly. It's not difficult to calculate what the various payouts should be in order to reach that. This means that some things will have to be nerfed, others buffed. It wouldn't be the first time something was seriously nerfed, either: see neutron star payouts.
Of course, there's always the matter of the LYR bonus: any sort of balancing will have to take that into account, and it should likely be rebalanced as well. Probably changed to something else instead. (I've never spoken to any LYR pilots, but I believe they would likely prefer to have some bonus that's more beneficial to PowerPlay instead.)
But if people spend less time on straight-line flying and spend more time exploring systems? I'd say that'd be good.