Engineers Ship Builds & Load Outs PA and APA engineering effects.
- Thread starter Stabby_Dave
- Start date
So tonight I tried my hand hat Efficient PAs. One with TC, one without EE. But now I'm thinking I'll fit a pair with Efficient and Plasma Slug so I can practice longer. On my first sortie I managed about 11-12 kills, on the second one about 16 before I ran dry (i.e. 100 shots). I also realized I have a long way to go if I want to transition to Fixed with most weapons.
Also, I don't think TC is doing a lot for me atm -- with the Efficient PAs everything runs a lot cooler and I don't get half as many heat warnings as with my old (Focused) setup.
I'm not quite sure which firegroup to put the Rust-MC in. If I put it with the lasers, it fires its precious ammo at shields most of the time (still the supply held longer than the Plasma shots). If I bundle it with the PAs, the PA shots strike (or miss) before the barrels even spin up. Three fire groups (without having to switch setups) would do the trick. ^^
Also, I don't think TC is doing a lot for me atm -- with the Efficient PAs everything runs a lot cooler and I don't get half as many heat warnings as with my old (Focused) setup.
I'm not quite sure which firegroup to put the Rust-MC in. If I put it with the lasers, it fires its precious ammo at shields most of the time (still the supply held longer than the Plasma shots). If I bundle it with the PAs, the PA shots strike (or miss) before the barrels even spin up. Three fire groups (without having to switch setups) would do the trick. ^^
Which ship are you flying?
I would have two fire groups :
1. a. 2 PA
b. 3 burst
2. a. 2 PA
b. 3 burst and mc
Use group 2 for after shields down?
In group 2, once you have fired and see the lasers connect, you may have to purposely aim at the mc reticle to be sure the mc is connecting... afterwards, since they are gimballed, both lasers and mc should connect...
I have also used turrets on the size one slot. I select "Target only" on the left hand panel under the Ship tab. Then I assign them to the PA group and the turrets just keep on firing and I don't need to worry about them anymore. Then you only need one fire group. 1. The two PAs and three turreted lasers and 2. The gimballed Mc.
When I am working on aim, I like to keep things as simple as possible because aim is not only about the reticle, but mostly about positioning. People say turrets are "bad"; when it comes to dealing damage, and that's correct. However, the amount of damage a size 1 weapon is not that big anyway. Size one slots are great for dealing debuffs like corrosive, emissive, scramble spectrum. I have used turrets on occasion because the freedom of being able to concentrate on mostly maneuvering is a great learning tool. If one is flying in dense rocks it's especially important to be able to concentrate on avoiding rocks. The most damage you can get out of a size one slot is probably a short range blaster rail gun. Please correct me if I am wrong.
[Edit] A size 1 frag may do more damage, not sure though. The SRB rail does have the advantage of being hitscan.
1. a. 2 PA
b. 3 burst
2. a. 2 PA
b. 3 burst and mc
Use group 2 for after shields down?
In group 2, once you have fired and see the lasers connect, you may have to purposely aim at the mc reticle to be sure the mc is connecting... afterwards, since they are gimballed, both lasers and mc should connect...
I have also used turrets on the size one slot. I select "Target only" on the left hand panel under the Ship tab. Then I assign them to the PA group and the turrets just keep on firing and I don't need to worry about them anymore. Then you only need one fire group. 1. The two PAs and three turreted lasers and 2. The gimballed Mc.
When I am working on aim, I like to keep things as simple as possible because aim is not only about the reticle, but mostly about positioning. People say turrets are "bad"; when it comes to dealing damage, and that's correct. However, the amount of damage a size 1 weapon is not that big anyway. Size one slots are great for dealing debuffs like corrosive, emissive, scramble spectrum. I have used turrets on occasion because the freedom of being able to concentrate on mostly maneuvering is a great learning tool. If one is flying in dense rocks it's especially important to be able to concentrate on avoiding rocks. The most damage you can get out of a size one slot is probably a short range blaster rail gun. Please correct me if I am wrong.
[Edit] A size 1 frag may do more damage, not sure though. The SRB rail does have the advantage of being hitscan.
Last edited:
For me TLB is just needed only for PvE, as a person presses the H key is not difficult.
I think it's scrambler
Great idea with the fire groups, I'll try that, thanks! ^^ 
--
As for the Dmg potential of Small slots... Burst or Sustain, theoretical or practical? ^^
The highest theoretical Dmg seems to be a Rapid Fire Frag with Screening Shell, but that thing would have insane jitter and really only hit large ships at point blank.
A bit more practical might be a Small oversized SRB Rail which has the biggest alpha and a pretty good Sustain (41.9 acc to Coriolis). But ofc with the usual drawbacks of rails. I can't use them at all. :6
Cyto has the highest possible Sustain at 49.4 (SRB G5 Oversized), but ofc only vs shields and only if you manage to keep the jittering weapon on target. Still it's pretty awesome for a small slot.
--
Oh another question -- Small MCs have a shorter spin-up than Meds, don't they?
--
As for the Dmg potential of Small slots... Burst or Sustain, theoretical or practical? ^^
The highest theoretical Dmg seems to be a Rapid Fire Frag with Screening Shell, but that thing would have insane jitter and really only hit large ships at point blank.
A bit more practical might be a Small oversized SRB Rail which has the biggest alpha and a pretty good Sustain (41.9 acc to Coriolis). But ofc with the usual drawbacks of rails. I can't use them at all. :6
Cyto has the highest possible Sustain at 49.4 (SRB G5 Oversized), but ofc only vs shields and only if you manage to keep the jittering weapon on target. Still it's pretty awesome for a small slot.
--
Oh another question -- Small MCs have a shorter spin-up than Meds, don't they?
I am willing to bet that the size 1 mcs do have a shorter spin up. Not sure. What I have experienced is the much longer spin up time of the size 3 compared to a size 2.
As for SRB rails: What control set up are you using? Besides efficient PAs, Short Range Blaster rails are also a favorite weapon of mine. I used to use a Thrustmaster 16000 joystick and throttle setup. Whereas I could use long range rails, I could not use short range rails in FA OFF to save my life. I tried for months. And yes I played with joystick curves and whatnot. Then on a whim, I tried mouse and throttle. I was immediately able to use SRB rails.
Slange started crying.
Slange started crying because although she could easily aim SRB rails, she no longer had the rotational fluidity of a joystick. Well she made the decision that if others could use a mouse, so could she. In addition Slange was tired of taking apart her joystick to grease it and the yaw was always going out of wack. Mice have a much lower rate of failure and are cheaper. Well, it took at least another three months for her to get comfortable with the rotationals on a mouse, but she did it.
I don't know many PvPers who very successfully use a SRB setup that use a joystick. I hope I am wrong.
o7
Alright the fire group setup trick works, I still have to get used to it but I think I am making some progress. ^^
Today one load of ammo was enough to kill over 20 ships and I had a bit left over in the end. I think I'll try swapping my burst lasers for beams and make it a Small MC.
As for your question, I use keyboard and joystick (a low end Thrustmaster, T-Flight Stick X or so). Never had a throttle so I'm messing about with WASD and QERF.
Never tried it with mouse tbh... I guess I can see the fine-tuning working better, but for general flying it just seems too awkward, as not to say undignified. ^^
I can understand Slange very well for starting to cry when a simple KB and mouse started working better than a sophisticated HOTAS setup.
It's funny though, I would expect that FAOFF can only be flown successfully with HOTAS and possibly rudder pedals on top.
Today one load of ammo was enough to kill over 20 ships and I had a bit left over in the end. I think I'll try swapping my burst lasers for beams and make it a Small MC.
As for your question, I use keyboard and joystick (a low end Thrustmaster, T-Flight Stick X or so). Never had a throttle so I'm messing about with WASD and QERF.
Never tried it with mouse tbh... I guess I can see the fine-tuning working better, but for general flying it just seems too awkward, as not to say undignified. ^^
I can understand Slange very well for starting to cry when a simple KB and mouse started working better than a sophisticated HOTAS setup.
It's funny though, I would expect that FAOFF can only be flown successfully with HOTAS and possibly rudder pedals on top.
It's funny though, I would expect that FAOFF can only be flown successfully with HOTAS and possibly rudder pedals on top.
FA off can be flown beautifully and successfully using any set up, even controller.
No one is arguing, even on a gamepad you can, but it's many times more complicated and they don't want to fix it.FA off can be flown beautifully and successfully using any set up, even controller.
FA off can be flown beautifully and successfully using any set up, even controller.
How can I best learn that? Are there courses? ^^
(Not w pad ofc but ideally kb+js)
I always flew "faoff" in Frontier (mouse) and in e.g. IWar2 (gamepad), but there the ships aren't twitchy. In ED they are hella twitchy and I seem to lack fine motor skills. :6
Sorry for this wall of text, but FA off can be learned intuitively or through more deliberate analysis. Below is what I had advised another Commander.
First and foremost. PATIENCE.
"Only infinite patience produces immediate effects." - A Course in Miracles
Please note that there is a continuum of skill in FA off, say, for example, like 1-10. I have been practicing FA off for two years and I would say I am a 7. In other words, many people fly FA off, but there are huge differences in expertise. Like many motor skills, FA off usually takes less time for the younger to learn. A lot of the great FA off PvPers I fly with are in their teens and twenties. But no matter, older people can fly well in FA off, too!
Many people just say, "Just fly fa off and never turn fa on." That's a viable and great method, especially when one is 15 years old. However, I am 55. That method would have caused me to rage quit. So I did it in small amounts.
There are many ways to learn a topic. The trick to learning a topic well is to use a lot of different methods which ultimately have the same goal. By experimenting with different techniques to do a task like FA Off, you may find the method that is best suited to your psychology. Sometimes it is the combination of different methods that lead to the " Aha! I get it now!" moment. So I will list below what helped me:
1.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zIXu52RnA
This series involves a lot of interesting exercises that one can do using in game assets. When learning FA off, it is imperative that you are flying in relation to a stationary object. By flying in relation to a stationary object, you will be better able to assess your improvement and how fa off differs from fa on. Moxxen's concept of tethering is very intuitive.
2.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWrvKoUJOEw
This series is/was written by a paraplegic, a very brilliant brilliant wonderful person and fantastic pilot. Look Inverted used a joystick and game controller. This series is very analytical and more cerebral. It talks about vectors and space dust. It also has specific exercises which one does against a stationary object, but it also analyzes what you are doing in more "scientific" terms.
I used both of the above videos to help me. Sometimes I used the space dust and sometimes I used tethering. More importantly, I did it in small amounts so I wouldn't get too frustrated.
Practicing docking was very very frustrating for me at first in fa off, especially in the large orbitals. I think docking should be the last thing you practice in fa off. If you wish to practice docking, do it at outposts first.
In addition to the exercises given in the above videos, I would rotate around asteroids or larger objects in both fa off and fa on and compare. Do it without boost and then with boost. Range control in fa off will be far far more intense. You will need to do something called bichording and trichording to slow down in FA off. This means using two or three other thrust inputs to redistribute the energy across those other thrusters so that the primary thruster input that you wish to slow down receives less energy. Range Control is in my opinion is the primary factor which separates the Women from the Girls.
The increased maneuverability in the Blue Zone holds true for FA off as well as FA on. However, I physically did not "feel" the Blue Zone in FA off until maybe a year and a half or so of flying FA off. It's very subtle at first, but starts to become an issue as you improve your fa off skills. I finally realized that I had improved in flying FA off when I found myself feeling "stuck" when I was attempting to maneuver out of the Blue Zone in FA off.
anyway, hope that helps and have fun!
o7
[Edit] : Forgot to mention that in Moxxen Wolf's video he used, iirc, a sidewinder in the tunnels of the Scientific Installation in San Tu. Well, FDLs, my favorite Pizza Slice, also fit in those tunnels, too. Haven't tried a Chieftain, yet.
Last edited:
Addendum: Below is a video of whom I and many other PvPers think is the finest pilot in the game, Yamato2012. Yes, he is flying FA off. I know of only one high tier PvPer that flies FA ON. Although Yamato's team loses and he does make errors, Yamato2012 is evading a hard two man focus for a solid ten minutes. I would have died in less than two. Yamato's range control is unexcelled and makes fa off orbiting seem easy. The reason he says " I don't get to play the game anymore." is because his damage output is so high and lethal that Yamato is almost always the first focus in most organized PvP wing fights, an inevitable outcome when you become "gud". (Needless to say I do not have that problem lol). When you are first focus, the goal is to evade to give time to your team mates to take down your team's focus. Evasion is less shooting. Less shooting less fun.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L3zHlpYVl0&t=67s
Last edited:
TLB is mostly useful for interrupting missile lock (useful in PvP and PvE) and resetting module targeting (NPC don't subsystem target, so this is meaningless in PvE). It was much more potent when it had no cooldown, but I'd consider it a lower priority mod currently, unless you fly a hybrid setup.
I‘ve found that long range PA’s and efficent PA’s works great together for me on some of my ships. I have a FDL with 4 efficent medium PA’s on the left trigger and the huge long range PA on the right trigger. A shot from the huge PA travels with 1750m/s if fully upgraded G5, which makes it so much easier to hit at long range - and to hit irritating small fighters.
It also means that I can fire with one trigger while the other fire group reloads.
I have a Krait Mk II with 2 medium efficent PA’s and the middle large efficent PA on the top in one firegroup - and the other two large long range PA’s on the top in the other. Works great - and I’ve had so much fun in that ship.
For me it often works better with one or two long range PA’s than a couple of Rails. Overall I can move much more and still be able to hit. I don’t have to freeze for a moment as you do with Rails. I loose Feedback Cascade of course, which is a substantial loos, but as already mentioned in the thread PA’s have some pretty usefull esperimental effects too. Personal preference - at least for PvE.
It also means that I can fire with one trigger while the other fire group reloads.
I have a Krait Mk II with 2 medium efficent PA’s and the middle large efficent PA on the top in one firegroup - and the other two large long range PA’s on the top in the other. Works great - and I’ve had so much fun in that ship.
For me it often works better with one or two long range PA’s than a couple of Rails. Overall I can move much more and still be able to hit. I don’t have to freeze for a moment as you do with Rails. I loose Feedback Cascade of course, which is a substantial loos, but as already mentioned in the thread PA’s have some pretty usefull esperimental effects too. Personal preference - at least for PvE.
Last edited:
Interesting use of different types of PAs. Will definitely keep that in mind.
As for freezing when using rails... In PvP if you stop moving, you will sustain damage. It is quite possible and essential in PvP to aim well whilst constantly moving, so most competent PvPers are very adept at using rails without freezing. Some of them are so talented that they can even snipe modules, which requires the rail dot to snap in place.
I bet you will easily be able to use rails without freezing with practice.
One of my current goals is to improve aim accuracy whilst constantly changing my vector so that my reticle appears to be constantly moving to my opponent. Difficult, but satisfying no matter how small the improvement.
Yep I have a Phantom with two APAs in the Large HP (left trigger) and two PAs in the Mediums (right trigger),all Focused,lots of fun and loads of damage dealt.
My opinion, I'm probably wrong, but this video shows nothing but flying faoff among the asteroids. The haphazard tossing back and forth and the pile of asteroids keeps the player from getting hit.