Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Surefoot

S
LittleAnt said:
You dont' know if it's good or not if you don't have reponses to this 4 questions :
How many planets will have rivers ?
How many rivers do you need on a planet ?
How much time it takes to create a full river ?
How many people will you assign to this task ?
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You do not need to go into that detail to do a rough estimate.
It's easier to judge on the actual team velocity for the delivered product.
So far, the whole of CiG managed to deliver about 1 planet (and its moons) per year of development.
What makes you think they will go any faster, especially now they showed they are still reworking existing ones ?
 

MTBFritz

MTBFritz
LittleAnt said:
The nice news is river, not about the fact they are proc-gen or not (doesn't matter how they are placed).
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Than why are people arguing about it being proc-gen or not (you as well)? And the importance or point of interest of it being proc-gen or not comes down to CiG selling its world as a proc-gen generated one which doesnt seem to be the case. The river only making it more clear so I dont really know why you argued the point a few posts back? Agonys remark in this matter (at least thats how I took it) is that once again SC is focusing more on fluff than on core mechanics and thats not really debatable as the last years have proven that fact over and over again. The river rather fits nicely into the "months go by and something hand-crafted is put into the tech-demo" theory which at this point doesnt bode well for SCs future.

I mean....are we watching CIG putting on the "finishing touches" before they shove this dumpster fire out the door?



Surefoot said:
Lost my reply about proc gen too... I was saying that absolutely everything is hand made. There is no proc gen.
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I caught that one tho before the "sweep" and I have to say it was pretty conclusive. (y)


One of these days I need to pick up painting or skizzing in order to express my thoughts in something else than pages of text ^^ A simple image would say all that needs to be said. Meme-generator where art thou?
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
LittleAnt said:
And ? What is the digital content you buy when you pledge ?
The one obvious I see from a legal point is the future software SC, nothing more.
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Paying for future digital content is actually a pre-sale (this includes jpegs and ships sales as these are not final, in theory, yet). Pre-sales behave exactly in the same way as a normal sale from the point of view of the buyer except that you get it later and can get a refund at any point in time before delivery. Wether you actually buy it outright or, more likely in the case of video games, pay for the right to use it via a license of some kind makes no difference: They are all pre-sales, with VAT and all.

The thing with CIG is that based on their refunds current policies they seem not to even be treating SC as a pre sale, but as an actual sale, delivered already as is ("playable now").

But this is all "déjà vu" mec. I thought you had actually realized it by now.
 
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LittleAnt

L
Surefoot said:
You do not need to go into that detail to do a rough estimate.
It's easier to judge on the actual team velocity for the delivered product.
So far, the whole of CiG managed to deliver about 1 planet (and its moons) per year of development.
What makes you think they will go any faster, especially now they showed they are still reworking existing ones ?
Click to expand...
They do not deliver more planets because :
- the planet tech is not finished (as you said they are still reworking existing ones, this sole point is sufficient to explain why so few planets)
- the tools are not finished
- the server can't handle more than one system

If you talk about mass production, the time passed to develop the prototype is far longer than the time to make each units when the mass production started... A car prototype is near 3-5 year development so, with your logic, we need 3 years to construct each car when mass production start ?
 

TiberiusDuval

T
LittleAnt said:
They do not deliver more planets because :
  • the planet tech is not finished (as you said they are still reworking existing ones, this sole point is sufficient to explain why so few planets)
  • the tools are not finished
  • the server can't handle more than one system

If you talk about mass production, the time passed to develop the prototype is far longer than the time to make each units when the mass production started... A car prototype is near 3-5 year development so, with your logic, we need 3 years to construct each car when mass production start ?
Click to expand...
Relevant question is that will there EVER be tooling for CIG to mass produce planets and points of interests?....Or are each system and planets in system hand crafted like car prototype?
 

LittleAnt

L
TiberiusDuval said:
Relevant question is that will there EVER be tooling for CIG to mass produce planets and points of interests?....Or are each system and planets in system hand crafted like car prototype?
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About the planet creation, the "prototype" for CIG is not the planet itself but the tools to make the planet. CIG is stil making the tools after x years of development. CIG will know how much time it takes to deliver one planet when the tools will be finished.
 

Firkrayt

Firkrayt
Craith said:
Because the technology shown does not work for proc-generated rivers.
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ECity said:
With the revelation of hand-drawn rivers, how does this impact your estimate?
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Oh, this is where you are wrong! Those rivers may be hand-crafted, but that's only because iRiver isn't ready yet. As soon as it is complete, it will proc-gen this list of rivers and a hundreds times more with ease!
And if you think I'm telling shyte, hear this: iRiver is already at Tier 0, I took a photo of prototype! Checkmate, FUDsters!
photo_2021-01-22_20-45-06.jpg

So, just you wait, it's going to be awesome! Right after ToW, iCache and SpanishInquisition!


Agony_Aunt said:
The bar for what pleases citizens these days is so low not even a limbo dancer could get under it :D
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Limbo dancer? Pfft. You need to go deeper. Hell dancer just asked to hold his beer.
 

ECity

ECity
LittleAnt said:
CIG will know how much time it takes to deliver one planet when the tools will be finished.
Click to expand...
Q: How long will it take them to add 100 systems?

LittleAnt: .....

Q: How long will it take them to add 100 systems?

LittleAnt: .....

Q: How long will it take them to add 100 systems?

LittleAnt: I estimate, with 50 people, 30 systems per year.


** Six months pass by with almost no new planets/moons and no new systems **


Q: How long will it take them to add 100 systems?

LittleAnt: .....

Q: How long will it take them to add 100 systems?

LittleAnt: CIG knows the answer.
 

Fishy

Fishy
Agony_Aunt said:
This goes back to what i was saying earlier. Until i see it in game, its nothing to get hyped over. They showed off the revamped icy planets years ago and where are they? Apparently coming in Odyssey... but will they be as good as those images? Will they actually arrive? Who knows. Not going to get hyped about it until i see it in game.
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Yeah, I'm also not about to forget what "volcanism" and "cryovolcanism" ended up like when they finally were implemented...
 

sovapid

sovapid
LOL

Removing content now......

With our upcoming patch Alpha 3.12.1, we’re planning to remove the asteroid Delamar, and with it the landing zone Levski.
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robertsspaceindustries.com

Delamar & Levski are going home - Star Citizen Spectrum

Hello everyone, As we've mentioned in the past, having Delamar in the Stanton system would be a temporary thing. With our upcoming patch Alpha 3.12.1, we’re planning to remove the asteroid...
robertsspaceindustries.com robertsspaceindustries.com
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
LittleAnt said:
You dont' know if it's good or not if you don't have reponses to this 4 questions :
How many planets will have rivers ?
How many rivers do you need on a planet ?
How much time it takes to create a full river ?
How many people will you assign to this task ?
Click to expand...

1) Do you know? One at least for certain. Earth.
2) That's up to CIG, but Earth has 76 rivers over 1000 miles long. This could be a problem for CIG though as planets are not to scale in SC. They are 1/5 size IIRC?
3) How long is a piece of string? We have no idea, but if they are modelling earth somewhat accurately, then its going to take a good while. Other planets... well, it depends on how realistic they want those rivers to be. Do they start as streams in the mountains slowly widening as they come down the mountains as they merge and grow, slowly growing wide and deeper until they near the seas and open up into deltas. Doing all that handcrafted would be hard work. Proc gen could handle it, but again, would run into the usual problem, CR, when he declares they should move a river or change the shade of blue.
4) Well, if it was me, i'd just go full proc gen. Seems like the only sane way to handle it. But again... CR.
 

kilvenny

kilvenny
LittleAnt said:
You dont' know if it's good or not if you don't have reponses to this 4 questions :
How many planets will have rivers ?
How many rivers do you need on a planet ?
How much time it takes to create a full river ?
How many people will you assign to this task ?
Click to expand...
Have a look at the list of planned systems. I believe one of the planned systems is SOL in which is the planet earth. Now, I don't expect an MSFS level of detail, but on earth there are around 76 rivers longer than a 1000 miles, so one or two rivers are going to be needed.

Then start thinking about over terrains and their components.

Anyway have fun

EDIT: Noticed Agony just Googled the same site! LOL
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
LittleAnt said:
They do not deliver more planets because :
  • the planet tech is not finished (as you said they are still reworking existing ones, this sole point is sufficient to explain why so few planets)
  • the tools are not finished
  • the server can't handle more than one system

If you talk about mass production, the time passed to develop the prototype is far longer than the time to make each units when the mass production started... A car prototype is near 3-5 year development so, with your logic, we need 3 years to construct each car when mass production start ?
Click to expand...

1) We've been listening to "once the tech is done things will speed up for years". One has to wonder, when will this magical moment happen.
2) Tools not finished - same excuse as tech isn't done. Its just another way CIG kick the can down the road. Yet somehow they did make most of a system without the tools and tech you say they need.
3) Well, that's part of what makes it all so funny. In 2012-2013 backers paid for 110 systems. Backers also said back then the main thing they wanted to do in SC was explore. You'd have thought that CIG with all their money and alleged top talent would have got to the point where they could handle more than one system. Its actually really really bizarre. They have got one system. All you need is a jump animation and then jump those people going through it over to another server where the other system is active. Its hardly rocket science... but apparently it is for CIG. Hell, we were doing this with NWN2 over a decade ago. The game engine doesn't support more than one world at once. But you could have people step through portals where they transferred over to another server running a different world. Ark does world transfers in a similar way. So no, i don't buy this as being the reason. They absoloutely could do it and it doesn't require server meshing to make it happen or any other magical tech.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Fishy said:
Yeah, I'm also not about to forget what "volcanism" and "cryovolcanism" ended up like when they finally were implemented...
Click to expand...

Too soon man, too soon!

EDIT: But this raises a relevant point. ED is a released game. We see what we get and its open to criticism. Whatever CIG fails to do its ok, because its still going to happen at some point. When they do implement something, if it isn't up to the dreams then it is Tier 0!!!!
 
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