Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12


Raising a point i've raised a number of times myself. Most want to be the captain of their own ship, not scrub the floors for someone else.

I know this is one of your personal crusades and that you have a deeply rooted dislike/hatred of any kind of organisation/hierarchy, but, please... Could you take a look at the greater multiplayer gaming scene and accept that there are a lot of players who enjoy teamwork including when it involves hierarchy and mundane tasks? Good Arma missions don't rely on everyone being John Rambo. Planetside 2 multi-platoon operations are some of the best multiplayer I've ever played and only work with some form of chain of command. Eve operations aren't executed through live referendums. Every faction vs faction mmo I've played always relied on that key person being available on both sides: the raid leader. There are plenty of players happy to play a smaller, more mundane part in something bigger. And for the mundane, back in UO days my favourite thing was playing a beggar, getting random stuff from other players, and letting the socialising happen over it. No, I never dreamed of being a beggar, but in a fictional universe, as a roleplay activity? Well, that was entertaining. So is mopping floors in Viscera Cleanup Detail, and it doesn't matter if I'm the one doing the mopping or if I'm on bucket carrying duties. I get my kicks from the silly gameplay loops and the team score at the end.

If anything can seriously hold back big ships, it's CIG's networking ineptitude, and the nightmare that will be balancing pvp (say if a dozen player ship can't hold its own vs a dozen single player ships). Certainly not the players refusing to play the roles. I get that it's not your cup of tea, but you should be able to accept the evidence in front of you, different people have different gaming tastes. If the game makes it to a decent release, there will absolutely be a crowd for this. But no, it won't happen by magic asking around on world chat, so for the antisocial types who absolutely want a crew, NPCs would certainly be a major help.
 
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I know this is one of your personal crusades and that you have a deeply rooted dislike/hatred of any kind of organisation/hierarchy, but, please... Could you take a look at the greater multiplayer gaming scene and accept that there are a lot of players who enjoy teamwork including when it involves hierarchy and mundane tasks? Good Arma missions don't rely on everyone being John Rambo. Planetside 2 multi-platoon operations are some of the best multiplayer I've ever played and only work with some form of chain of command. Eve operations aren't executed through live referendums. Every faction vs faction mmo I've played always relied on that key person being available on both sides: the raid leader. There are plenty of players happy to play a smaller, more mundane part in something bigger. And for the mundane, back in UO days my favourite thing was playing a beggar, getting random stuff from other players, and letting the socialising happen over it. No, I never dreamed of being a beggar, but in a fictional universe, as a roleplay activity? Well, that was entertaining. So is mopping floors in Viscera Cleanup Detail, and it doesn't matter if I'm the one doing the mopping or if I'm on bucket carrying duties. I get my kicks from the silly gameplay loops and the team score at the end.

If anything can seriously hold back big ships, it's CIG's networking ineptitude, and the nightmare that will be balancing pvp (say if a dozen player ship can't hold its own vs a dozen single player ships). Certainly not the players refusing to play the roles. I get that it's not your cup of tea, but you should be able to accept the evidence in front of you, different people have different gaming tastes. If the game makes it to a decent release, there will absolutely be a crowd for this. But no, it won't happen by magic asking around on world chat, so for the antisocial types who absolutely want a crew, NPCs would certainly be a major help.
None of these games have janitor jobs, do they? They usually have tasks that contribute to the game and not someone's ego. And it's pretty niche, too.
 
None of these games have janitor jobs, do they? They usually have tasks that contribute to the game and not someone's ego. And it's pretty niche, too.

The nature of the task doesn't matter. You can turn anything into a fun gameplay loop, including but not limited to mopping floors, checking passports or being a goat. Can CIG do it? Well, that's a $300m question I guess. But there's nothing that fundamentally makes it impossible that it ends up being fun in its own way.
 
Oh I dare you. Eat away. Right here and now I can already hear the future ruminations of tainted kraut in your guts.

I won't hesitate to throw a mocking "Told you so!" to your pitiful, huddled figure, then.

Oh its on!!!

I will NEVER admit pain or defeat. I ll rather force myself uprightr and look you in the face saying through clenched teeth

"I m having so much fun" and order seconds thus claim victory
 
By the way, if I put coleslaw on pineapple pizza, should I add mayo? Or it would be disgusting enough without it?

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None of these games have janitor jobs, do they? They usually have tasks that contribute to the game and not someone's ego. And it's pretty niche, too.
Star Citizen doesn't have janitor jobs either, it's just a commonly used meme ;)

I have no interest in joining an org in SC...simply because most of the ones I've had offers from are either "Oh, it's just me and my mate Trevor and we own a Cutlass Black between us."

...or they're Eve with cockpits fanbois looking to reproduce Eve in SC

...or they're wannabe Pirates with 3 ships between 5 of them who've played nothing outside of a weekend on Fortnite.

...or they're 890J owners dreaming about corporate meetings aboard their floating bling barges whilst an ocean of minions make them credits for minimum wage

The worst of all for me are the pseudo militarists who have no experience of military life but assign service ranks they have no idea about but they once read about on reddit or saw in a Hollywood movie.

Having had 23 years of shouting at soldiers and making them run around a drill square with a rifle over their heads...that's not for me either outside of my milsim mates from ARMA which 95% of them have relevant military experience on the ground ;)
 
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You know it's for NPC right ?
The "janitor" thing is a meme indeed and also very certainly a NPC occupation that CiG envisioned.

Ship multicrew could be real fun if implemented, provided they one day realize they have to hire network specialist devs.. But yeah having played a few team-based multiplayer games myself, having an active role in a team that's not the leader is more like having a free ride on theme park attraction. Having endorsed the role of team leader just a few times (mostly in Mechwarrior online competitive play, MW3/4 and MWO, for my part) I can attest it's not for everyone, at all, as it's quite stressful and sometimes akin to herding cats. Also ship multicrew is at the core of some games like Star Trek Bridge Crew which are really entertaining (and hilarious with friends) - again in that game the captain's chair is just another element of the machine.

Currently the only role other than pilot in SC is turret gunner, and it can be more interesting than being the main pilot in some cases (like on current medium / big ships) as the pilot is more like a bus driver than anything else. Giving the co-pilot seat more control, like over guns (and gimbal movement), maybe missiles too, would create a "weapon operator" role which would be rather useful on anything from a Freelancer and up.

As for other roles, there would be a few interesting options too if the gameplay was not of a 6DoF twitch shooter with very short TTK - mechanic / engineer for example, radar/scanner operator... These would require the gameplay to slow down a lot to more paced out action, but for that CiG would need to grow some spine, forego their arcade shooter model and go for more realistic movement and action. That would certainly alienate their vocal fringe of players who just wanted a Wing Commander remake, to which i would answer that game has not aged well at all, and it did not include huge 10+ player crew ships.
 
I know this is one of your personal crusades and that you have a deeply rooted dislike/hatred of any kind of organisation/hierarchy,

Umm... i'm the leader of a player group in ED (see my avatar). Technically speaking. Nobody listens to me. But that's fine. I have no desire to boss people around or stand shouting on a bridge like Rexshilla.

I do have a dislike of hierarchy though, you've got that right.

But i think you overestimate the number of people who are willing to play second fiddle in a game like SC.

For a start, if you are going to crew for others, then you have to be online when they are. And its bad form to go AFK or quit while crewing for them. You have to have plenty of flexible play time that meets the play time of the person you are crewing for.

Remember as well, a lot of these people are the ones who are urging CIG to make sure big ships require player crew, not NPC crew and that big ships are unable to be flown without a crew.

And I'd stake a lot on the statement that I think many of those who want this sort of gameplay and have the time/life situation that allows this are also owners of bigs ships expecting others to crew for them.

In short, if CIG do make player crews a requirement, and NPC crew are not implemented, then a lot of people are going to be unable to find players to crew their ships.

I also think CIG (and certain players) have given zero thought to people actually having real lives. What happens when people are flying a big ship but then someone has to quit? Now a crew function is missing. The ship has to head to a dock somewhere to pick up another crew member... who may or may not be available. Its not likely org members are just sat around doing nothing waiting to be signed up to be crew.
 
As for other roles, there would be a few interesting options too if the gameplay was not of a 6DoF twitch shooter with very short TTK - mechanic / engineer for example, radar/scanner operator... These would require the gameplay to slow down a lot to more paced out action, but for that CiG would need to grow some spine, forego their arcade shooter model and go for more realistic movement and action. That would certainly alienate their vocal fringe of players who just wanted a Wing Commander remake, to which i would answer that game has not aged well at all, and it did not include huge 10+ player crew ships.

Yeah, this is another factor. A lot of games with crew/roles are either designer around slower gameplay, which allows time for those roles to do stuff, or if they are twitch based, you're looking at games like TF2 where each role can act independently.
 
This is what some people with brainworms really thing is going to happen.

With Star Citizen I see a certain group of people constantly bash the game for being almost devoid of game loops etc, I like to argue back that the players are meant to buddy up with friends and roleplay thus creating emergent gameplay. Literally, all that needs adding is a few more NPC mission givers, a slightly bigger market system, some better AI, exploitable fauna and a few more ships. That'll be pretty much a released game, the studios and staff will then be massively reduced with a small team creating a trickle of content like the remainder of the ships and new planets etc over the following several years, much like Warframe and WoW etc. Now for a moment if you will, imagine a game based on Earth with ships at sea, it would be unrealistic to expect action all the time, in fact most of the game would be spent getting from A to B to drop off or pick up cargo and supplies, the gameplay and fun would come in as you and a handful of your crew roleplay what a real crew would do in the same situation in real life. There would be plenty of roles and stuff to do, like for instance I would be captain as it's my ship so I would be in my quarters working out routes, cargo itinerary, staff wages and giving orders etc. I would have a second in command (officer) who would be my go between me and the crew, he would come to my quarters to take orders and then pass them on, we would have meetings to discuss if any of the crew were getting out of order and may need disciplining etc. There would be 2 cooks working to make 3 square meals a day and also luxury food for me, my 1st officer, other officers and favoured crew (like if one of them had done something heroic that day). They would write up shopping lists and work out costs per meal to take out of the crews wages for their board.

There would be someone on the wheel that would also write up navigation charts and make sure we were on the correct route, he would report directly to my 1st officer or me if there was a n emergency. He would have a subordinate to take over his role when he was offline, this person would be 'learning the ropes' so to say.

There would be a medical officer and a junior medic and maybe a nurse depending on size of crew, they would be kept busy dealing with minor every day injuries like scuffs, cuts and bruises etc. They would have an easy role for the most part but would be expected to work 'crunch' time when emergencies happened like treating all the injured after a fight, or some parasitic infection or disease from a tropical island.

There would be a gunner officer that made sure all the guns were maintained and will write up reports of spare parts, ammunition etc that was need and report to my 1st officer. Under him there would be several gunnery staff all trained on how to quickly load and aim the guns. They would also be trained and equipped to lead fights against hostile boarding parties etc.

There would also be a role for new people that were learning how to fit in, their jobs would be running about fetching items for the higher ups, cleaning, reparing (although there would be a craftsman officer), making sure stock was in the right place at the right time.

When we arrive at a port, most the crew would help with unloading the cargo while I and one of the officers went and talked to the port officials where we sit down, dine and work out what my cargo will sell for as well as coming up with a deal on the price of new cargo. Depending on what you wear and how luxurious your clothes are, how well scrubbed up you are and how well treated your crew is will all help determine how the port officials and others treat and deal with you.

Then once the money was in my bank account I can go and shop for new clothes, supplies, fire and hire new crew if needed and look at upgrading the ship with newer defences or bigger sails etc.

Then I would go to the local pubs and dine with other players and NPCs keeping my ears open to get hints at what islands are safe to explore and which ones are off limits until I have better crew and guns etc. After that, me and my 1st officer would go back to my cabin and work out where to take the new cargo and which islands to stop off and explore on the way. The crew would be busy loading the ship during this time and if quick enough they could go and enjoy some sights and local foods.

We would then head off and spend many hours at sea again roleplaying life at sea until we arrive at our 1st island, here we would have an away team go and explore looking to bring back rare plants, animals and minerals. Depending on how successful the bounty some of the crew may request to stay and build a base so they can start farming and build a defensible castle etc. This is where my role as Master captain gets tricky, as I want to man the ship but I also need to let just enough stay on land including a medic and officer to get a base set up. Depending on the size of the island I might leave the my 1st in command in charge of the ship and send him to deliver the cargo and bring back more players and supplies. I would then oversee the building of a small hamlet sized base, with crop farm, cattle, lumber yard, mining outposts, doctors surgery, refinery etc. I would be watching the whole time keeping an eye out for which crew seem betters suited for which role. I would then decide who becomes a crop farmer, a cattle rancher, miner, explorer etc. I of course would be doing the bulk of the exploring and telling my staff which wildlife catches my eye, knowing that certain things will be rare and therefore more valuable, they would take these back to be kept as cargo for the returning ship. After awhile I would have several of these bases over many islands and would hire an officer to remain on land in the head office and oversee the logistics of supplying all of these places with my fleet of ships.

Of course other players would get wind of my wealth and create small pirate bands to come and steal my stuff. This is where a lot of the action comes into play and the game becomes an epic war of wits, tactics and bravery as me and my people use multiple types of ships, weapons and items to defeat the enemy and enslave the survivors. The pirates (players) can then be taken back to a port and handed into officials for rewards or forced into cages and fed the bare minimum of bland food and clothed in rags for a few days, then over time, I could increase the quality of their food, talk to them and let them out of the cage for short periods to gain their trust, over time I would allow them to have a job and they could then, if trustworthy, work their way up the ranks and even be some sort of 2nd officer on one of my ships one day. They would see that piracy does not pay as much as hard work and having good friends and crew around you. All of this would be to the backdrop of a stunning world, with 2 NPC races having an all out war, my interactions with NPC's mission givers etc would slowly over time influence the outcome of this war.

Now bear in mind that all of what I have said is basically in and coming to Star Citizen in the near future except with spaceships instead of sailing ships, and space instead of the sea and planets instead of islands. So when you talk about SC not having much to do you are very wrong, there is lots to do when you roleplay and when they add a few more of the game mechanics that are promised, of which many are finished but not released to followers yet as the devs are still layering the supporting game mechanics into the dev test servers. I guess they still have to work out how all these things will affect the economy so as to keep the reward per mission, bounties, selling mined goods etc in line with the cost of ships so as not to make it too easy for to many players to buy expensive ships with in game credits. There needs to be enough players with entry level ships so that they see it as a positive and privilege to be invited to work on my larger ship and become part of my crew. Their reward (apart from wages) will be to explore and adventure in places they would never survive solo. All in all it's a win win situation to own and crew a larger ship which will then be part of a fleet.

There is one thing that I'm not 100% sure on, and that is on the new Origin 300i V2 there are 2 wine glasses, why 2 wine glasses, it bugs me that there are 2. Is it meant to be a 2 man ship, where your pilot flies and you lie on the bed and drink wine? Once in QT or when waiting for the overheating to cool down does the pilot come over and sit down on the bed with you and drink a glass of wine? It might be a bit weird if you've only just met and hired him for this one trip. Is a pilot even allowed to drink, will it trigger a legal status? Other than verbally asking him not to drink your wine is there a way to stop him? Like is my drinks collection just an open bar to him or can I lock it? Or is it one of the NPC subsumption bonding mechanics of gameplay. Like you hire a medium quality pilot rather than fly yourself so you can kick back, listen to music or watch live news reports being broadcast by other players and when the pilot is doing nothing you can invite him or her over and try to impress them by offering them some exclusive, expensive champagne or red wine. That way their attitude towards you goes up which means over a few more interactions they will be more willing to take on bigger jobs in some of your bigger ships or accompany you on the odd mission outside the role of pilot, or maybe if they have other jobs lined up they might cancel one with a player they don't like as much and come to work for you instead?

Also got to love after all that dreamcrafting his main problem is why there are 2 wine glasses on the 300i.
 
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