Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Mole HD

Mole HD
The main trouble with Ci¬G and multicrew is that they keep insisting on nerfing the medium to large ships to suit the shorter TTK demanded by the PvP players. They can't have it both ways, either lengthen the TTK significantly to allow for multicrew operation of a ship or bin the idea of implementing manned crew positions on those ships.

The caterpillar used to be a formidable beast to take down with a single small fighter... so Ci¬G removed one of it's shield generators to stop them whining that Player A in his Aurora couldn't take one down...to me, that's exactly how it should be. I don't want large ships to be immortal by any means, but it should take more than a single Anvil Arrow to even think of attacking a Caterpillar in the first place.

As it is now, the Caterpillar has been reduced to nothing more than a lumbering loot piñata...
 
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Mole HD

Mole HD
Agony_Aunt said:
SQ41.5 update is out.


Still working on that AI.... that should have been ready 6 years ago when SQ42 was meant to launch.

It really is amazing how much tech and code is still needed for SQ42, despite somehow it being almost ready all those years ago.

Also, crossbow!
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I've just read through the monthly report for Star Citizen...I won't bother regurgitating the utter nonsense on here :cautious:

A Link instead...

Too much of this...

pnQFtOW.gif


Way too much of this...

IAb1hg4.gif


...and this...

mH4qcgn.jpg
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Mole HD said:
I've just read through the monthly report for Star Citizen...I won't bother regurgitating the utter nonsense on here :cautious:

A Link instead...
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Immediately struck by the image. A FEMALE looking longingly into the eyes of the clearly alpha male as though she is saying "Is that an Idris in your hangar or are you just pleased to see me?"

They know their demographic.

I'm just surprised they haven't progressed to having spacesuit bikinis yet.

Most notably, the new year saw a reorganization of the AI teams into a more efficient structure to encourage knowledge sharing and a more holistic approach to prioritizing tasks and goals.
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9 years in, still trying to figure out the best way to organize teams.

Early days.

LOL, half of this is just a copypasta of the SQ42 report. Way to pad things.

Really, they should just have 3 sections to a single report. Stuff common to both and then individual reports for what is unique to each game.

Geometry instancing???

and solutions to handling detached character collisions and the Munchhausen effect were found.
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What?

Munchausen syndrome (factitious disorder imposed on self) is when someone tries to get attention and sympathy by falsifying, inducing, and/or exaggerating an illness.
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???

Ok google, let's search for that with software development.

Closest i can find is in relation to bootstrapping based on how Munchausen pulls himself out of a swamp by pulling on his own hair.

I get the feeling CIG have just made up something here.

Anyway, just a big load of blah blah blah. Nothing significant there.

A couple of paragraphs dedicated to Turbulent, mainly about how they are doing bug fixing. I thought these guys were meant to be working on new systems.
 

[VR] DDM_Reaper20

[VR] DDM_Reaper20
Agony_Aunt said:
So, you're saying you're not a sour kraut? :D
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No, I am a Sauerkraut. :ROFLMAO: ;) Funnily enough, I can't stand the stuff. Was forced to eat it as a kid, never got over my intense dislike...

My original point was, though, that certain jokes must be allowed. Levity may seem inappropriate at times, but the problem is, who decides what is inappropriate, and when? The very same people who are abhorred when certain comparisons are made will happily use them themselves, should the occasion arrive (note: I am NOT referring to anybody in this thread, but rather, to certain politicians...).
 

[VR] DDM_Reaper20

[VR] DDM_Reaper20
Agony_Aunt said:
SQ41.5 update is out.


Still working on that AI.... that should have been ready 6 years ago when SQ42 was meant to launch.

It really is amazing how much tech and code is still needed for SQ42, despite somehow it being almost ready all those years ago.

Also, crossbow!
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Seriously? Hawkers? Tourists? Engineers? In an ALPHA? Isn't that fluff that should be threaded in when the main stuff, the really important stuff (or UNimportant stuff to CI (NOT) G, such as missions, vehicles, spaceships etc.) is fully working?

Edit: Read the rest. Answer the call, somewhere in, oh, I don't know, but based on what they still have to do (or so they say), the next decade seems realistic...

If I didn't know why this flaming dog turd is never going to live up to expectations, now I would...
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
[VR] DDM_Reaper20 said:
Seriously? Hawkers? Tourists? Engineers? In an ALPHA? Isn't that fluff that should be threaded in when the main stuff, the really important stuff (or UNimportant stuff to CI (NOT) G, such as missions, vehicles, spaceships etc.) is fully working?

Edit: Read the rest. Answer the call, somewhere in, oh, I don't know, but based on what they still have to do (or so they say), the next decade seems realistic...

If I didn't know why this flaming dog turd is never going to live up to expectations, now I would...
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You clearly don't understand fidelity development!

Note, they also list this stuff for SQ42, which i can't imagine why it would be needed for SQ42. Why are tourists NPCs needed for a campaign about a war against an alien race?

It might go some way towards explaining why they are taking so long making SQ42. Its full of stuff that isn't actually required for the game.
 

[VR] DDM_Reaper20

[VR] DDM_Reaper20
Agony_Aunt said:
You clearly don't understand fidelity development!

Note, they also list this stuff for SQ42, which i can't imagine why it would be needed for SQ42. Why are tourists NPCs needed for a campaign about a war against an alien race?

It might go some way towards explaining why they are taking so long making SQ42. Its full of stuff that isn't actually required for the game.
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Yep, you are right. I do not understand fidelity development. ;) Man, I am just glad I did NOT give them any money.

I mean, I wouldn't mind getting a souped-up Wing Commander game... I quite liked WC3 and IV, even Prophecy... Starlancer was okay (some missions were strangely balanced, some bugs, of course), Freelancer was only good with some mods, Vanilla was not good at all (to put it politely)... I do know that SQ42 is going to be cheesy. Obviously. Still, as long as it is good (not seriously likely)...
 

Fishy

Fishy
Agony_Aunt said:
Umm... i'm the leader of a player group in ED (see my avatar). Technically speaking. Nobody listens to me. But that's fine. I have no desire to boss people around or stand shouting on a bridge like Rexshilla.

I do have a dislike of hierarchy though, you've got that right.

But i think you overestimate the number of people who are willing to play second fiddle in a game like SC.

For a start, if you are going to crew for others, then you have to be online when they are. And its bad form to go AFK or quit while crewing for them. You have to have plenty of flexible play time that meets the play time of the person you are crewing for.

Remember as well, a lot of these people are the ones who are urging CIG to make sure big ships require player crew, not NPC crew and that big ships are unable to be flown without a crew.

And I'd stake a lot on the statement that I think many of those who want this sort of gameplay and have the time/life situation that allows this are also owners of bigs ships expecting others to crew for them.

In short, if CIG do make player crews a requirement, and NPC crew are not implemented, then a lot of people are going to be unable to find players to crew their ships.

I also think CIG (and certain players) have given zero thought to people actually having real lives. What happens when people are flying a big ship but then someone has to quit? Now a crew function is missing. The ship has to head to a dock somewhere to pick up another crew member... who may or may not be available. Its not likely org members are just sat around doing nothing waiting to be signed up to be crew.
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The "being online at the same time" requirement is a given, and yes, it's certainly a hard limit. But that's the same requirement as in every single organised team game, and that kind of gameplay tends to be organised/scheduled in advance. Going back to some of the stuff I played: multi-platoon operations in Planetside 2 were absolutely not the normal. You'd spend most of your time solo or in random platoons with barely 2 people communicating. That didn't make these operations and the infrastructure around them irrelevant. That's, imho, the most likely fate of those crewed ships (even 2 players): never being "the normal", but ending up as treats for organised events. Unless NPC crews actually happen, in which case they'll end up far more common and will be soloed most of the time.

As for "playing second fiddle", please. If the crew gameplay is boring, no one will do it. If it's fun, people will do it because it's fun. Alternatively, even if it's boring, people will still do it if you stick a big enough carrot, because mmo players tend to value more their virtual rewards than their time. But there's no "second fiddle" in team games, everyone is in both for themselves (because they get something out of it) and/or for the team (because they also get something out of it). This isn't real life, the "captain" has no actual authority over you, it's not about inflating their ego, it's just about playing a game and choosing to work out different roles required to make something happen. Again: not your thing and that's fine, but it's pretty common in multiplayer gaming.

I feel like I need to add that yes, there are serious requirements on CIG's end for this to work, and seeing their track record so far, I have serious doubts as to whether they can deliver on this. But this is imho a worthwhile part of mmos, and something that make them be something more than random solo pvp. That's why my pvp is totally lopsided towards "faction vs faction" games, because that organised team effort brings something to the table that my deep love of soloing can't ever provide me.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Surefoot said:
You know it's for NPC right ?
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Are you sure? The use of the term 'puzzle', and the vibe of the text, lend themselves more to mission flavour text than code notes for routines or whatever. IE:

Vending Machine_Puzzle_Unit_LongDescription=Someone appears to have stolen the Power Unit from the machine. Go find another one inside of the maintenance cupboard
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I don’t code or anything, but it all reads like some scrub-tier station missions to me.

EDIT: Maybe this is how subsumption works. You have to tell the AI what to do semantically? Really motivate them ;)
 

Xink

Xink
[VR] Golgot said:
Are you sure? The use of the term 'puzzle', and the vibe of the text, lend themselves more to mission flavour text than code notes for routines or whatever. IE:




I don’t code or anything, but it all reads like some scrub-tier station missions to me.

EDIT: Maybe this is how subsumption works. You have to tell the AI what to do semantically? Really motivate them ;)
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I believe the technical term for that kind of text is... mambo jumbo aka some text for stuff that will never happen.

Someone has to get paid to write that you know. People need jobs.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
[VR] Golgot said:
Are you sure? The use of the term 'puzzle', and the vibe of the text, lend themselves more to mission flavour text than code notes for routines or whatever. IE:




I don’t code or anything, but it all reads like some scrub-tier station missions to me.

EDIT: Maybe this is how subsumption works. You have to tell the AI what to do semantically? Really motivate them ;)
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Is this not what a janitor does? Cleaning and maintaining stuff like vending machines? Fix bulbs. Sell illegal items under the table.
 

cheesenbiscuits

cheesenbiscuits
Fishy said:
I know this is one of your personal crusades and that you have a deeply rooted dislike/hatred of any kind of organisation/hierarchy, but, please... Could you take a look at the greater multiplayer gaming scene and accept that there are a lot of players who enjoy teamwork including when it involves hierarchy and mundane tasks? Good Arma missions don't rely on everyone being John Rambo. Planetside 2 multi-platoon operations are some of the best multiplayer I've ever played and only work with some form of chain of command. Eve operations aren't executed through live referendums. Every faction vs faction mmo I've played always relied on that key person being available on both sides: the raid leader. There are plenty of players happy to play a smaller, more mundane part in something bigger. And for the mundane, back in UO days my favourite thing was playing a beggar, getting random stuff from other players, and letting the socialising happen over it. No, I never dreamed of being a beggar, but in a fictional universe, as a roleplay activity? Well, that was entertaining. So is mopping floors in Viscera Cleanup Detail, and it doesn't matter if I'm the one doing the mopping or if I'm on bucket carrying duties. I get my kicks from the silly gameplay loops and the team score at the end.

If anything can seriously hold back big ships, it's CIG's networking ineptitude, and the nightmare that will be balancing pvp (say if a dozen player ship can't hold its own vs a dozen single player ships). Certainly not the players refusing to play the roles. I get that it's not your cup of tea, but you should be able to accept the evidence in front of you, different people have different gaming tastes. If the game makes it to a decent release, there will absolutely be a crowd for this. But no, it won't happen by magic asking around on world chat, so for the antisocial types who absolutely want a crew, NPCs would certainly be a major help.
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Whilst multi role gameplay is cool,that would complicate matters and I’m not sure right now in development hell is when you start getting ambitious. If SC stands any chance of being something playable in the original pledgers lifetime it may be wiser to push for a finish line and drop a lot of things that may prove tricky for this particular dev team.
 
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