[GALNET] Warning of Ship Abductions by Fleet Carriers by nasty people

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

It’s a knotty problem though, a human makes ‘slaves’ out of other humans in a game where you can trade in slaves. How do you take a moral stance against slavery in that situation?

My wife and I went to Italy for our honeymoon and I just had to take a tour of the Ferrari museum, so cool. On the tour they said they still hand-build every engine, as well as other components. It takes days and days for them to build a single V12 engine by hand.

Have you seen an Imperial Cutter? I mean, come on man. When it comes to quality like that, it MUST be hand built. And it takes a LOT of hands indeed...

 

[Red Anders]

Many years ago I was playing Planetside 1 and there was a funeral for someone who died in real life. We met on an island (of zero strategic value) and there was a little ceremony, it was nice. Until some edgelord decided to carpet-bomb it with a massive wing of heavy bombers. Nobody survived. It was a slaughter.

Much later in WoW I heard someone else did something similar to another player funeral.

I guess you would call that "emergent content" but some people just cannot help themselves from acting on their worst instincts in games. I looked into the cancer patient thing since you brought it up, and yeah, I mean if that's behavior you want to defend knock yourself out I guess. Would that megaship have been disabled if NOT for the sick player? I think not, so the intent is clear regardless of how much actual inconvenience it caused.

Maybe this is why we can't have nice things?

No I would call that being a tool, but you seemingly missed the point that it has literally no comparison with the incident I referred to in Elite (the Dove Enigma episode) in which no player would have been at any risk whatsoever of losing a character, any equipment or even any time even if the attempted trolling had succeeded. Which it didn't. I was actually here, not reading about it in an incredibly misinformed article after the fact. You know, like you did. And even that incident has zero relevance to this one, where what happened was a very gullible person did something stupid in an online game. Courtesy of Gary Larson, here is what actually happened this time:

Your desperation to lump me in with the griefer cohort based on this is also hilariously ill-informed by the way. Frankly if I gave a single crap about your overwrought pearl-clutching hyperbole I'd expand on that at some length but thankfully I have neither the time nor the inclination to do so, not least because it seems to be a stance into which you slide all too readily.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

The players were also given the resources to buy and outfit a mining ship, as well as apparently given lessons in mining (obviously their “captors” would want them to be as efficient as possible). They were also buying their VOs at 1/6th the normal price, according to the article.

Considering they could just blow themselves up whenever they wanted and lose the ship they were given but keep a bit of profit (which is not bad for a noob as they wouldn’t be mining VOs at that stage anyways), I’d hardly call this slavery. Some players are even voluntarily staying there now after learning the truth.

The regular game may not be a manipulation in that sense but it’s still a forced grind to do many things, whether we are aware of it or not.

These players walked away with a mining lesson and a bit of extra cash. Hardly the end of the world.

I like the one player they interviewed that actually took responsibility for their own actions.

You're completely removing intent. The intent was clearly to deceive. You are placing zero responsibility on the FC guy to have any ethics. Which is fine, not saying that's not your right. But you're making this sound like a mutual win-win which is a bit....off in my opinion. Because certainly by removing intent, we could always find a silver lining to a lot of truly malicious actions.

And hey look, I'm not exactly a choir boy myself and I'm not saying the FC guy should be punished or banned or whatever. If no rules were broken, then I get it, 'sandbox' and all. But comparing this to "grinding"? Nah, I just can't see it.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Here's where I am confused. If this is behaviour by other players, why are Frontier highlighting it in a Galnet article? I would have thought Frontier would have either reprimanded the players or simply ignored it. By talking about it in a Galnet article, it's become part of the lore.

Or I have it wrong, and it's NPC's?

Yes its other players and there is nothing to reprimand them for.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

Is lockdown getting to people that much they are getting bent out of shape of this big case of nothing? There was no "child exploitation" because the 10 year old was smart enough to spot the con. The parent wanted his 15 minutes of fame and decided this was the thing that was going to be it.

Seriously folks, it's a game: nobody has been hurt, nobody has lost real money over this (unless they also bought into the $75 for a billion credits scheme) and Polygon et al are just wanting to generate clicks.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Is lockdown getting to people that much they are getting bent out of shape of this big case of nothing? There was no "child exploitation" because the 10 year old was smart enough to spot the con. The parent wanted his 15 minutes of fame and decided this was the thing that was going to be it.

Seriously folks, it's a game: nobody has been hurt, nobody has lost real money over this (unless they also bought into the $75 for a billion credits scheme) and Polygon et al are just wanting to generate clicks.

Im surprised any parent would readily admit they allowed their children below the age of thirteen to use discord.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Your desperation to lump me in with the griefer cohort based on this is also hilariously ill-informed by the way. Frankly if I gave a single crap about your overwrought pearl-clutching hyperbole I'd expand on that at some length but thankfully I have neither the time nor the inclination to do so, not least because it seems to be a stance into which you slide all too readily.

I'm doing no such thing but I'm sorry if you thought that. You brought the whole thing up.

But in your own words there was a clear attempt to "troll" a peaceful expedition on behalf of a player dying of cancer. Is that correct?

I find it fascinating you would describe distaste in such a thing as "pearl-clutching".

 

[Red Anders]

Im surprised any parent would readily admit they allowed their children below the age of thirteen to use discord.

Like I said to you in pm earlier this week and also earlier in the thread, that's the part I have difficulty with - sorry but letting your two pre-teen kids have access to discord. I'll also say that it puts an incredibly unfair (and terribly misplaced) burden on the ten year old to make her responsible for any aspect of her seven year old brother's online safety.

 

[Revenant69]

I just wish I'd thought of the scheme first.

 

[lefty1117]

Here's where I am confused. If this is behaviour by other players, why are Frontier highlighting it in a Galnet article? I would have thought Frontier would have either reprimanded the players or simply ignored it. By talking about it in a Galnet article, it's become part of the lore.

Or I have it wrong, and it's NPC's?

See, to me this is sort of a tacit approval of what has happened by FD. Not so much an approval of the morality as much as, "no game rules were broken and the community has reacted so we'll let it stand".

 

[Alien]

Yes its other players and there is nothing to reprimand them for.

OK, fair enough, I am still surprised Frontier put it into a Galnet article and made it part of the lore.
I'm NOT saying they shouldn't have, only that it surprises me.

 

[Red Anders]

I'm doing no such thing but I'm sorry if you thought that. You brought the whole thing up.

But in your own words there was a clear attempt to "troll" a peaceful expedition on behalf of a player dying of cancer. Is that correct?

I find it fascinating you would describe distaste in such a thing as "pearl-clutching".

Do you have any understanding of what was actually done in the incident and the worst possible scenario if it had in fact succeeded in full? That is the pearl clutching right there, since the worst possible scenario would have had literally no effect at all on the expedition and would not have prevented any part of it from being completed with complete success. Yes, seriously.

The Polygon piece about it includes at least one correction during the article noting that it was completely ill-informed and it was written by someone who had no understanding of the game or its mechanics whatsoever.

 

[LeoBartlet]

OK, fair enough, I am still surprised Frontier put it into a Galnet article and made it part of the lore.
I'm NOT saying they shouldn't have, only that it surprises me.

Why are you surprised?

The boy Potter however banned he may be from the game/forums lives forever in the lore as he killed Salomé.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

OK, fair enough, I am still surprised Frontier put it into a Galnet article and made it part of the lore.
I'm NOT saying they shouldn't have, only that it surprises me.

I like it. If you take a hard stance against the guy, you anger a lot of people who will say FDEV has broken trust and betrayed the games mission-statement etc etc. If you make a big official thing about it outside the game, it signals the game is full of baddies and you give yourself negative PR etc etc. This is a pretty creative solution imo I guess considering the delicate position the FC guy put them in with this stunt.

 

[LeoBartlet]

See, to me this is sort of a tacit approval of what has happened by FD. Not so much an approval of the morality as much as, "no game rules were broken and the community has reacted so we'll let it stand".

Or rather they accept that in building a sandbox mmo people will create emergent content or whatever the cool kids call it these days and sometimes that content while within the rules of the game might be morally reprehensible to some.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Do you have any understanding of what was actually done in the incident and the worst possible scenario is it had in fact succeeded in full? That is the pearl clutching right there, since the worst possible scenario would have had literally no effect at all on the expedition and would not have prevented any part of it from being completed with complete success. Yes, seriously.

The Polygon piece about it includes at least one correction during the article noting that it was completely ill-informed and was written by someone who had no understanding of the game or its mechanics whatsoever.

Yes I understand that. Again, that's not what's germane.

Okay tell you what man, let me know the next time someone in your family gets really sick. I'll show up and troll them in the hospital but won't actually harm them physically. I'm sure you won't have a problem with that as the worst case scenario in my trolling is that it won't have "any effect" on your sick relative....

I mean really? You're actually going there? This is not "pearl clutching" it's basic humanity and empathy. Are we so bored that "trolling" sick kids with cancer in the game is some big thing you need to pull off??

The only difference between that funeral bombing I brought up and Enigma was one got pulled off and the other didn't. But you seem to not want to address that the intent for both occasions was to disrupt and dunk all over people attempting to pay homage to a gamer and community member.

If finding that distasteful is now "pearl clutching" .....man your Overton window is shifting in the wrong direction my friend.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Okay tell you what man, let me know the next time someone in your family gets really sick. I'll show up and troll them in the hospital but won't actually harm them physically. I'm sure you won't have a problem with that as the worst case scenario in my trolling is that it won't have "any effect" on your sick relative....

Oh dear.

 

[Red Anders]

Yes I understand that. Again, that's not what's germane.

Okay tell you what man, let me know the next time someone in your family gets really sick. I'll show up and troll them in the hospital but won't actually harm them physically. I'm sure you won't have a problem with that as the worst case scenario in my trolling is that it won't have "any effect" on your sick relative....

I mean really? You're actually going there? This is not "pearl clutching" it's basic humanity and empathy. Are we so bored that "trolling" sick kids with cancer in the game is some big thing you need to pull off??

The only difference between that funeral bombing I brought up and Enigma was one got pulled off and the other didn't. But you seem to not want to address that the intent for both occasions was to disrupt and dunk all over people attempting to pay homage to a gamer and community member.

If finding that distasteful is now "pearl clutching" .....man your Overton window is shifting in the wrong direction my friend.

Shark jumped right there. What's germane is that you just demonstrated that you have literally no clue what you're talking about. I have no need to defend myself from anything you wrote there because again, it has nothing to do with the issue you're talking about. I'd suggest you do some more reading to be honest - the Dove Enigma expedition was intended for a bunch of players to get together, fly to a station and dock there. It was literally impossible for any payer action to prevent that because UA bombing could not prevent docking facilities from being available. If you want an actual metaphor it would be like someone trying to troll a relative in the hospital, but realising that they couldn't get within 50 miles of the place, so just becoming a complete irrelevance to everybody.

The fact is, you heard 'hospital', 'cancer' and got triggered based on less than half the facts, which is the danger when one goes off half-cocked. And to be clear I'm using the word 'triggered' not because I throw it around all the time but because in this case your reaction to these events after the fact are actually coming in significantly stronger than those of the guy whose expedition it actually was by the way and I'm pretty sure he was qualified to judge. You're making a bit of a fool of yourself here both in terms of the opinions you're attributing to me and the ones you're displaying yourself. The issue is simply not as you are portraying it, so any conclusions that you are then drawing from that are misguided.

 

[Revenant69]

Why are you surprised?

The boy Potter however banned he may be from the game/forums lives forever in the lore as he killed Salomé.

The boy wizard is banned from the game?

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Shark jumped right there. What's germane is that you just demonstrated that you have literally no clue what you're talking about. I have no need to defend myself from anything you wrote there because again, it has nothing to do with the issue you're talking about. I'd suggest you do some more reading to be honest - the Dove Enigma expedition was intended for a bunch of players to get together, fly to a station and dock there. It was literally impossible for any payer action to prevent that because UA bombing could not prevent docking facilities from being available. If you want an actual metaphor it would be like someone trying to troll a relative in the hospital, but realising that they couldn't get within 50 miles of the place, so just becoming a complete irrelevance to everybody.

The fact is, you heard 'hospital', 'cancer' and got triggered based on less than half the facts, which is the danger when one goes off half-cocked. And to be clear I'm using the word 'triggered' not because I throw it around all the time but because in this case your reaction to these events after the fact are actually coming in significantly stronger than those of the guy whose expedition it actually was by the way and I'm pretty sure he was qualified to judge. You're making a bit of a fool of yourself here both in terms of the opinions you're attributing to me and the ones you're displaying yourself. The issue is simply not as you are portraying it, so any conclusions that you are then drawing from that are misguided.

That's not true. I don't know anyone who died of cancer so I didn't get triggered. And I went to independently research the incident BEFORE I replied to you.

None of the facts line up with your statements. Players attempted to grief this event and FDEV had to officially comment on it and condemn it. And there were MANY angry players over it, but I guess they were "pearl clutching " too or whatever. I don't care for your interpretation of it, the fact that you attempt to whitewash all that by saying nothing bad happened is your prerogative certainly. Just don't try some Internet tough guy crap by calling my opinion that it was distasteful "pearl clutching" over nothing.