Slave Carriers Update

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I'm reaching the conclusion that you're taking the <mickey> here.

If you're familiar with cases of modern slavery (actual modern slavery...

I'm taking the mickey? You're going totally off the rails if you think delving into modern day slavery is appropriate or even illustrative in this discussion.

Now you're just resorting to plain old victim-shaming. I'm quite sure you believe that if everyone was as smart as you theft, fraud, kidnapping and otherwise wouldn't exist but not everyone who gets scammed is deserving of it man.

Maybe two things can be true at once? People can make bad decisions in trusting others, and people can be scumbags who break rules and get canned for abusing that trust.

 

[Red Anders]

Are you still talking about my Werther's originals? It's a mixture of mold, and the best type of bumfluff (if that gets through the censor)

OK I think I was just sick in my mouth a little.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

interfered with their experience beyond a case of just forcing a rebuy

It was exactly the case of forcing one rebuy of a ship you didn't even pay for. So you probably were better of afterwards then when you started, because of the credits made on mining for the "slavers".

When did we collectively become so thin-skinned that it warrants "journos investigation" and throwing allegations? I hate to throw the term "carebear" around, but this is the perfect example of " selective carebearry"...

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Solo forum is best forum!

Isn't it called "an echo chamber"? Or is that the "PG forum"?

 

[Northpin]

While it was an interesting bit of emergent gameplay, they were taking advantage of new players in a way that was both exploitative and interfered with their experience beyond a case of just forcing a rebuy and the player changing to open or private session.

Isnt the same done by the people that explode non-engineered noobs in deciat while claiming they are educating them?
Or the same as the versed player that joins a multicrew session, then take weapons control and shoot the station killing the multicrew host in the process?
In both cases, the vets are taking advantage on noobs lack of knowledge regarding game mechanics.

Nobody forced the new players to accept credits from strangers, to follow to the letter the strangers' advice on what ship to buy and how to outfit it
Then to voluntarily dock at stranger's carrier. Then they were instructed how to mine and to sell the goods to the carrier.

 

[LeoBartlet]

I'm taking the mickey? You're going totally off the rails if you think delving into modern day slavery is appropriate or even illustrative in this discussion.

Now you're just resorting to plain old victim-shaming. I'm quite sure you believe that if everyone was as smart as you theft, fraud, kidnapping and otherwise wouldn't exist but not everyone who gets scammed is deserving of it man.

Maybe two things can be true at once? People can make bad decisions in trusting others, and people can be scumbags who break rules and get canned for abusing that trust.

I obviously know what your reply will be but I have to ask do those pearls get tight around your neck?

 

[Hellrider]

The slavers have a discord full of parephenallia. Frontier ought to rain fire on them until the only left for them is starving to death in the streets.

And?
Game is game.
Their private discord is their private discord.
Ban people in game for any stuff on their PRIVATE DISCORD is sick.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

I think we need to keep in sight the genius (whether you approve or not) of the plan. Much like fishing, bait was thrown and people looking for a free lunch came biting. Of course it was a trap for the gullible but really, what real harm was done? This is obviously putting any racism or harassment to one side.

I've seen people on this forum nose dive their shieldless explorers with millions of data gone, because they fell asleep or popped into the garden quickly to build a shed. They lost a lot, FD gave it back to them. They only thing they couldn't reclaim was the time, Same for these other people. FD will sort them out, get them back, no doubt throw in a sweetener to put a smile on their face. They lost some time. They were playing a video game, they were losing time, all the time. No real life harm was done to them, again, putting any racism or other such unpleasantness to one side. I'm only talking about the so called slavery.

The only reason this has any traction is because of the word slavery and the addition of 2 children.

Nobody forced the new players to accept credits from strangers, to follow to the letter the strangers' advice on what ship to buy and how to outfit it
Then to voluntarily dock at stranger's carrier. Then they were instructed how to mine and to sell the goods to the carrier.

You back on here again? Get mining you lazy worm!

 

[LeoBartlet]

And?
Game is game.
Their private discord is their private discord.
Ban people in game for any stuff on their PRIVATE DISCORD is sick.

IF and its a big IF they were sanctioned due to out of game behaviour then its a slippery slope Frontier are going down.

I don't think its unfair of me to say that there is a good chance a lot of scumbags play the game and whats to stop people taking screenies of their discords and reporting them to frontier.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

And?
Game is game.
Their private discord is their private discord.
Ban people in game for any stuff on their PRIVATE DISCORD is sick.

People lose their real life jobs for posting racist stuff online, doesn't seem a stretch that you could lose your right to play a game for doing the same.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

28 pages and no one has changed their avatar to protest anything. You've changed.

I already have the best one.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

I already have the best one.

As ever, it's your modesty that shines through though.

 

[LeoBartlet]

People lose their real life jobs for posting racist stuff online, doesn't seem a stretch that you could lose your right to play a game for doing the same.

See that's the problem I have with that sort of thing. Say for example some idiot kid posts something racist on twitter should that follow them forever and are they always going to be a racist because of what they said years ago?

Context is key and if I say something racist on Monday and have a job interview on Tuesday the employer is well within their rights to judge my most recent behaviour when deciding if they want to employ me.

 

[Red Anders]

I'm taking the mickey? You're going totally off the rails if you think delving into modern day slavery is appropriate or even illustrative in this discussion.

Now you're just resorting to plain old victim-shaming. I'm quite sure you believe that if everyone was as smart as you theft, fraud, kidnapping and otherwise wouldn't exist but not everyone who gets scammed is deserving of it man.

Maybe two things can be true at once? People can make bad decisions in trusting others, and people can be scumbags who break rules and get canned for abusing that trust.

I asked a question. I'll repeat it. Do you think it is reasonable to agree that someone capable of buying, downloading, installing and configuring, launching and playing a computer game can also be considered to have the basic competence to ask a question using freely accessible online sources about the same game, which are accessed via the same device that they have already demonstrated greater technical competence in using just by getting the game to run?

To remove any concerns about obfuscation here, I'm looking for a yes or no answer and if it's really a 'no' then I'm afraid you're going to have to explain it to my tiny brain. If it's a 'yes' however, this 'helpless noobs' line of argument stands revealed for the utter tosh that it is.

That was where the relevance of modern slavery comes into the equation - you're talking as if these people were being genuinely oppressed and denied information in real life, like they were being held by some gangmaster who has stolen their passports and was keeping them locked up in a shed. You're actually talking about some people who were sat in their homes using their own computers, with access to every source of information known to man at the touch of their fingers. How exactly do you feel those people were in any way helpless or 'deprived' of information, other than by one source which they could have bypassed completely? Oh and their own lack of absolutely minimium effort to seek it out obviously. It is absurd. Utterly absurd.

If I PM'd you tomorrow that you have to give all of your money to me would you say 'well seems a bit harsh but hey them's the rules' and get your chequebook out, or would you check elsewhere to see if I was being entirely honest with you? If it's the former by the way, let me know and I'll send you some paypal details.

Finally, you seem to be taking what I've written about this guy's actions as thinking he's a prince amongst men or something. I don't think that and I've never said it. I do not think he did anything wrong though, within the context of playing a computer game. As for the racism, I haven't seen any actual evidence of that - I've seen the now redacted Polygon accusation and I've seen loads of other people make vague comments about how terrible it is if true (which I agree with) but I've seen ball-all evidence that it actually is true, which is why I have nothing to say about it.

I'll tell you what aspect of this I do have an issue with and not for the first time with FDev actually - the fact that their EULA tends to get clarified to include things after the fact, which makes it pretty difficult for someone to mount a defence of the thing that there was no clarity on being against the rules specifically at the time they did it.

 

[avow555]

For a game that sells Slaves on the market, this whole episode was laughable.

What moral ground does Frontier come from, lol.

 

[Hellrider]

For a game that sells Slaves on the market, this whole episode was laughable.

What moral ground does Frontier come from, lol.

And remember about "deal with civil unrest by delivery 200t of explosives"!

 

[LeoBartlet]

For a game that sells Slaves on the market, this whole episode was laughable.

What moral ground does Frontier come from, lol.

You can also supply illegal drugs and even furnish systems in civil war with weapons.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

See that's the problem I have with that sort of thing. Say for example some idiot kid posts something racist on twitter should that follow them forever and are they always going to be a racist because of what they said years ago?

Context is key and if I say something racist on Monday and have a job interview on Tuesday the employer is well within their rights to judge my most recent behaviour when deciding if they want to employ me.

I agree but that is life, innit? Rumours about Richard Gere have no founding, we all know them. Some things chase your for life. If these people have been found to be posting racist stuff whilst playing the game, in game, somewhere else whilst discussing the game, I guess FD would have the right to ban them saying they do not want to be associated with people who do that. We agree on the longevity though, I wouldn't then chase them around for the next 10 years getting them banned from any game I knew they were playing based on this incident, but I would wholeheartedly support FD banning them from this game now, if the racism accusations are true.

Short answer is no, don't tar them for life but don't let them off now because they might be different in the future. Punish them now and you could bring about that change, let them off, you most likely won't.

 

[JonLuis69]

I think we need to keep in sight the genius (whether you approve or not) of the plan. Much like fishing, bait was thrown and people looking for a free lunch came biting. Of course it was a trap for the gullible but really, what real harm was done? This is obviously putting any racism or harassment to one side.

This is indeed the issue, isn't it. No real harm was done. If racist comments were made then the appropriate platforms must be held accountable, and at the end of the day, people can just shut the f up about the deal.

It's a game!!!

It's a really fun game, there are no movements trying to co-opt the people into shady stuff.

It's just a game.

(I feel a Bill Hicks rant coming on)

 

[LeoBartlet]

I agree but that is life, innit? Rumours about Richard Gere have no founding, we all know them. Some things chase your for life. If these people have been found to be posting racist stuff whilst playing the game, in game, somewhere else whilst discussing the game, I guess FD would have the right to ban them saying they do not want to be associated with people who do that. We agree on the longevity though, I wouldn't then chase them around for the next 10 years getting them banned from any game I knew they were playing based on this incident, but I would wholeheartedly support FD banning them from this game now, if the racism accusations are true.

Short answer is no, don't tar them for life but don't let them off now because they might be different in the future. Punish them now and you could bring about that change, let them off, you most likely won't.

Well in that case Frontier might need to change their EULA again to reiterate that conduct outside the realms of their game can be taken into account when dealing with ingame conduct.

Sounds very social credit to me personally but hey 8% of the company is owned by Tencent so who knows they might go for it.

Still I look forward to the armchair lawyers ruminating over that if and when Frontier change their EULA.