Ships Ships for Mat Farming in HazRES? (not 'Vette)

[znôrt]

You can have little fun in the little Viper, but jokes aside, no mid-small ship compare to a Conda or a Vette when we talk about scooping; I use in my Vette a class 7 Collector, and I fight in a "cloud" of limpets - in 1h in a ResH I am full usually full, so I need to jump at a manuf. trader to exchange them for high grades.

i know how to use limpets efficiently. e.g. how to mine a rock just at the right angle and speed/rotation so that the fragments spawn just in front of your hatch, and have 9 limpets swooping up the whole stream of fragments from 4 mining lasers, the whole rock in one go, and from there to the next rock. it's oddly satisfying.

but that's mining rocks. there you have hundreds of fragments to scoop, and most of them are valuable. on wrecks as you say fragments will be (much, much) more sparse, disperse, diverse and erratic. and of course i don't need to scoop up all of them, material trader be damned: a mat that is worth a 1000th of a mat i'm actually interested in simply isn't worth my time nor to carry limpets. i'd rather leave it there and go find another ship to blow up. i only scoop up mats that i have in low supply, which you can recognize instantly by targeting them, you don't even need to know which is which. after a while you'll know, though, and a simple look at the contacts panel will let you immediately identify the 1-5 mats worth collecting on each drop. you might think that picking up the whole bunch of drivel and then trade it up is more efficient, but i doubt that.

collector limpets for mats are for comfort, or an excuse for being lazy. or clumsy.

 

[Homerzilla]

i know how to use limpets efficiently. e.g. how to mine a rock just at the right angle and speed/rotation so that the fragments spawn just in front of your hatch, and have 9 limpets swooping up the whole stream of fragments from 4 mining lasers, the whole rock in one go, and from there to the next rock. it's oddly satisfying.

but that's mining rocks. there you have hundreds of fragments to scoop, and most of them are valuable. on wrecks as you say fragments will be (much, much) more sparse, disperse, diverse and erratic. and of course i don't need to scoop up all of them, material trader be damned: a mat that is worth a 1000th of a mat i'm actually interested in simply isn't worth my time nor to carry limpets. i'd rather leave it there and go find another ship to blow up. i only scoop up mats that i have in low supply, which you can recognize instantly by targeting them, you don't even need to know which is which. after a while you'll know, though, and a simple look at the contacts panel will let you immediately identify the 1-5 mats worth collecting on each drop. you might think that picking up the whole bunch of drivel and then trade it up is more efficient, but i doubt that.

collector limpets for mats are for comfort, or an excuse for being lazy. or clumsy.

Nah, is just WAAAAY faster like that.
More to that, for some like me who love to experiment different weapons loads / internals mods, materials are NEVER enough.... And I feel I need a lot of them.
I have fun experimenting new builds, and I am more than frustrated with the current limits of storage, and I say that from the perspective of a FC owner who can have the "luxury" of buying ships ONLY to use them as extra storage.... not once I sold fully modded weapons/internals just because I rub out of ships/space to store them.... but hey, NPC to kill are plenty, I do mine in regular basis, so raw and manufactured still come.... but again I need MORE of them

 

[Oytis57]

I use my medium combat ships for combat only - supported by my FC. IF and ONLY if I need to jump over 15-20 ly. I just board the FC, switch to fuel scoop, GFSDB, and I got 40 yl jump range in no time
But since my home is Maia ( those juicy Ant Hill Mob pirates assassination missions - you can stack them over and over and are precious ! ) - I just stay there;
I found Maia to be THE richest near bubble zone, both in stacking multiple assassination missions, AND probably THE best for mining....

So, what can you wish more ?

I guess here we were talking about a sort of multirole ship for fighting and material gathering,unless the op changed its thread, said that an FC is not the standard so my approach was in that direction. A ship that can fight well gather stuff and travel, that was my concept.

 

[Oytis57]

HazRES all drop the same kind of loot, don't they?

It depends on the ship type and its rank

But as long as I just need to get to the next Haz or CNB, 20-25LY is plenty imho.

Not for me but as always, to each his own

 

[Homerzilla]

I guess here we were talking about a sort of multirole ship for fighting and material gathering,unless the op changed its thread, said that an FC is not the standard so my approach was in that direction. A ship that can fight well gather stuff and travel, that was my concept.

To resume, a ship great at all, but excelling at nothing... but fact is, you cannot have everything in one, so in this sense, you are right,, mate.

 

[Oytis57]

To resume, a ship great at all, but excelling at nothing... but fact is, you cannot have everything in one, so in this sense, you are right,, mate.

Well not exactly the "real multirole",basically it's a fighter that can jump and gather,honestly with my MK II done that way I have no problems in Haz RES and Hi CZs so I'd say it can excel in Combat as well But you know everyone of us has his own specific ideas at how to reach that goal and what hardware to use, i suppose there's not a "perfect way" but many different good ones.

 

[Homerzilla]

It depends on the ship type and its rank

Not for me but as always, to each his own

Usually once you are in the system you do the fighting, and you know you will be there for some time, is a bit smarter to give-up, strip the ship from useless things ( fuel scoop, GFSDB, etc and load a combat build ) - anyway you will need to return to that station, right, to rearm, or, most important, to get your bounty money without the 25% cut - so, why not to use a dedicated combat build instead ?! Make no sense for me - once you're done, you just can "dress-up" the multi-role build and move away.
Is a reason why the module/ship transfer function is there.

 

[Homerzilla]

Well not exactly the "real multirole",basically it's a fighter that can jump and gather,honestly with my MK II done that way I have no problems in Haz RES and Hi CZs so I'd say it can excel in Combat as well But you know everyone of us has his own specific ideas at how to reach that goal and what hardware to use, i suppose there's not a "perfect way" but many different good ones.

I think it is right to say, the real "perfect way" is the one who brings you 1000 % fun. No matter what others think, but yes, how you do enjoy.

 

[Oytis57]

Usually once you are in the system you do the fighting, and you know you will be there for some time, is a bit smarter to give-up, strip the ship from useless things ( fuel scoop, GFSDB, etc and load a combat build ) - anyway you will need to return to that station, right, to rearm, or, most important, to get your bounty money without the 25% cut - so, why not to use a dedicated combat build instead ?! Make no sense for me - once you're done, you just can "dress-up" the multi-role build and move away.
Is a reason why the module/ship transfer function is there.

Yes this is your approach but I have never had problems and the need of stripping my ships for Combat CGs,CZs and the likes, you know different way to approach things,it's normal.

 

[Oytis57]

I think it is right to say, the real "perfect way" is the one who brings you 1000 % fun. No matter what others think, but yes, how you do enjoy.

Exactly!!

 

[Kayvan]

Alright!
So, tonight I bought a Challenger and quickly outfitted it. Just remote workshop, so I couldn't engineer all parts (for lack of pinned blueprints) or apply any XF. For weapons I just slapped on what I had lying around, mostly lasers and one Corrosive MC, plus a vanilla Large Frag on top. Thrusters I tuned to G4 Dirty.
Then I took it to the nearest CNB and picked fights until the Frag was out of ammo.

What can I say? I like the ship! And I'm a bit surprised about that myself, bc with the missing front engines it looks so ugly -- kinda like the Tyrannosaurus of heavy fighters.:6

That said, although the speed will always lag a bit behind the Chieftain's, the handling actually is impeccable. Are the lateral thrusters actually more powerful on this ship? Kinda felt that way. And despite my suboptimal second-hand weapon loadout, fighting was fun and went pretty smoothly.
I did pack a class 6 cargo rack with 64 limpets, and had a few left over at the end of the run. However early in I lost a few to some pirates throwing hatchbreakers at me. oÔ Either way 32 probably wouldn't have been enough without synthing, let alone 16. I let the collectors scoop up pretty much all materials, but didn't really pay close attention to what I got. I just made sure not to end up with illegal cargo in my hold.

So anyway, if I can figure out a nice weapon loadout now, the Challenger still probably won't replace the Chieftain as my favourite fighter, but it's already apparent that it's gonna be a fine mat farmer. ^^ So, mission accomplished.

 

[Homerzilla]

Alright!
So, tonight I bought a Challenger and quickly outfitted it. Just remote workshop, so I couldn't engineer all parts (for lack of pinned blueprints) or apply any XF. For weapons I just slapped on what I had lying around, mostly lasers and one Corrosive MC, plus a vanilla Large Frag on top. Thrusters I tuned to G4 Dirty.
Then I took it to the nearest CNB and picked fights until the Frag was out of ammo.

What can I say? I like the ship! And I'm a bit surprised about that myself, bc with the missing front engines it looks so ugly -- kinda like the Tyrannosaurus of heavy fighters.:6
View attachment 208376
That said, although the speed will always lag a bit behind the Chieftain's, the handling actually is impeccable. Are the lateral thrusters actually more powerful on this ship? Kinda felt that way. And despite my suboptimal second-hand weapon loadout, fighting was fun and went pretty smoothly.
I did pack a class 6 cargo rack with 64 limpets, and had a few left over at the end of the run. However early in I lost a few to some pirates throwing hatchbreakers at me. oÔ Either way 32 probably wouldn't have been enough without synthing, let alone 16. I let the collectors scoop up pretty much all materials, but didn't really pay close attention to what I got. I just made sure not to end up with illegal cargo in my hold.

So anyway, if I can figure out a nice weapon loadout now, the Challenger still probably won't replace the Chieftain as my favourite fighter, but it's already apparent that it's gonna be a fine mat farmer. ^^ So, mission accomplished.

Glad you found a new source of fun, mate !
Ideal - have them both = x 2 fun

Something better in Chally, tough - better hard points ;
the big // medium MPC.s .

 

[Bantha]

The Conda if you want a HazRes tank.
Krait Mk II if you want a more mobile fighting experience.

Not flown the Challenger so can’t comment, but it gets some love on here, and seems to be a viable alternative to the Krait Mk II.

I would not take a Krait Phantom, it’s not designed for this role at all, and the Mark II is way better at combat.

The Python would do a job of course (it can do anything as we know), but again for this scenario the Mk II is simply better.

 

[Oytis57]

I would not take a Krait Phantom, it’s not designed for this role at all

Have you even tried? I have a Combat Phantom with four Plasmas...wich makes the MK II feel a bit ashamed.

The Conda if you want a HazRes tank

Good luck

 

[Kayvan]

Ofc now I've started scouring the net for useful insights on the Challenger, but most people seem to tune in on "there isn't a role for it that another ship [Chief, Krait II] can't do better".
Well I still haven't tried the Krait 2 so cant compare, but for this specific purpose it seems to be right on the money. ^^
So at this point thanks again to Homerzilla for making the case.

However where I'm not sure I agree is about the hardpoints. Haven't figured out a good setup yet.
For "All Frags" at least I need to get better at range control, and then the Chief may be better at that due to agility and speed. So far I've been using the frag as "weapon of opportunity".
Med Multis suffer from the piercing mechanics imo; also they go through the ammo supply pretty fast.
Lasers ofc struggle even more against hulls.

PAs might be interesting bc of superior Dmg type and piercing. However here the convergence of L and M hardpoints doesn't seem optimal. Also there's the ammo constraints - either the 100 rounds or you take the DPS hit and start worrying about fuel.
Oh yeah and heat is another issue, but I guess at can be handled.

 

[S0rkvild]

I find Python well suited for this line of work, but my usual choice is Fed Dropship with class 5 collector and cargo.

 

[Kayvan]

So you don't have a dropship, you have a pick-upship.

 

[Homerzilla]

Ofc now I've started scouring the net for useful insights on the Challenger, but most people seem to tune in on "there isn't a role for it that another ship [Chief, Krait II] can't do better".
Well I still haven't tried the Krait 2 so cant compare, but for this specific purpose it seems to be right on the money. ^^
So at this point thanks again to Homerzilla for making the case.

However where I'm not sure I agree is about the hardpoints. Haven't figured out a good setup yet.
For "All Frags" at least I need to get better at range control, and then the Chief may be better at that due to agility and speed. So far I've been using the frag as "weapon of opportunity".
Med Multis suffer from the piercing mechanics imo; also they go through the ammo supply pretty fast.
Lasers ofc struggle even more against hulls.

PAs might be interesting bc of superior Dmg type and piercing. However here the convergence of L and M hardpoints doesn't seem optimal. Also there's the ammo constraints - either the 100 rounds or you take the DPS hit and start worrying about fuel.
Oh yeah and heat is another issue, but I guess at can be handled.

Plasma in PvE are not so great - requires range control and a good aim for fixed weapons - more - you need a severely restricted build in order to manage the heat.
Sometimes you need to sacrifice SB.s slots just to hang there a heat sink....
Give a try to this mix - 2-3 LR beams with TV ( on small points) AND all the rest OC or short range blasters burst lasers with INERTIAL ; (all gimballed)
You will shred hulls and shields in no time AND you will never worry about ammo; the TV on beams will help you to tag the targets at range AND, most important, will keep your heat levels under control.
54 dam/sec / weapon is hilarious deadly. A lot easier to use than PA and with heat level more than easy to control. Unlimited ammo.RoF incomparable.

See a relevant vid here about how deadly is this build:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Vcni7YwSc

 

[Kayvan]

Hmmh. I tested out both fixed and gimballed Inertial lasers on my Chief a couple of weeks ago and was not impressed. The jitter was crazy. I also made a mistake and built them as Focused; I guess I hoped that would somehow help with the jitter -- well, it didn't. xD The increased piercing isn't bad though. I guess I'll give them a try on the Chally again before I build new ones.

 

[Homerzilla]

Hmmh. I tested out both fixed and gimballed Inertial lasers on my Chief a couple of weeks ago and was not impressed. The jitter was crazy. I also made a mistake and built them as Focused; I guess I hoped that would somehow help with the jitter -- well, it didn't. xD The increased piercing isn't bad though. I guess I'll give them a try on the Chally again before I build new ones.

Well, NOT focused but short range or OCharged - the dam increase is significant. And the jitter is irrelevant when // if you manage to stay in the target tail at 3-500m. The rate of fire ( RoF) is so good ( compared to PA) and the huge damage ( 54 dam/sec is not a joke...) - in fact you do a more dam than a MC same class. And the cherry on top - no ammo needed.
I love to position myself in the Condas/ Vette.s six, at only 3-500m, and then I open fire with all ( LR beams with TV and bursters - to keep the cooling ) - and usually the shields on target drop after only few seconds ( no SC can by-pass the dam ! ) and the hull usually pop after some more sec. I have so much fun on this build....