There are a few who frequent here who wouldn't believe it if Frontier told them what year this was
(I'm not sure about just 5 names, but 5 are certain
)
ANNOUNCEMENT Elite Dangerous: Odyssey | The Road to Odyssey - Mission Playthrough
- Thread starter Paul_Crowther
- Start date
(I'm not sure about just 5 names, but 5 are certain
)
truth is definitely not an absolute, and absolutely not in the context of for profit companies' public communications.
that tiny detail aside ... everything i see comes across as that this is basically what they have to offer now, their exciting news, that there is not much more to show and it basically looks like crap. again, if you want to believe in magic the 'old alpha build' mantra might become useful for a while. clock is ticking though. good that you guys start with the damage control just now.
they tend to be fun :O)
you got a new follower!
Deleted member 38366
D
Hm, alright then...
After a single review of the Pre-Alpha footage, these are the Details that catched my eye :
Ingrees
Seems the Installation required none of the demonstrated "covert approach".
I mean
Seeing that was rather awkward.
And even IF covert approach was required, I'd sure not expect to see the Player Ground Force to openly use the Main Gate.
Instead, I'd expect one or more weak spots where they could sneak through, while using Terrain and Buildings as cover (maybe coupled with some "ESM" reading many FPS Games have these days, indicating a rough probability of detection affected by environment, line-of-sight, light levels and noise propagation)
Target Building
Having only two workers inside the building seems okay, as it appeared tiny.
However, the 2nd worker approaching with a gun drawn (but no alarm yet) didn't make sense.
The very moment any of such NPCs feels forced to draw their weapon in self-defense, sure they're hitting the Comms button and sound Alarm, right?
Combat
Hate to say it, but that was - by far - the weakest and most awkward Phase.
Egress
NPC behavior and Player bullet sponging in general
It's pre-Alpha... and it shows. Slow, unintelligent and non-tactical like an unorganized scout club.
These NPCs made our two actors look like Thor and Superman teamed up and went in there - almost invincible and facing minimal resistance.
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I wouldn't mind :
The whole foundation of the design btw. should honor the most realistic Scenario :
After a single review of the Pre-Alpha footage, these are the Details that catched my eye :
Ingrees
Seems the Installation required none of the demonstrated "covert approach".
I mean
- the Ship clearly didn't land near some red Trespass Zone
- the two Ground Actors were using the "main entrance" and were clearly in view of both Security, Personnel and Guard Skimmers
- until any crime was triggered, they could have literally just run straight to their Point of Action (Reactor Building) without any implications
two Players running around in a highly and clearly suspicious manner while even having guns drawn in broad daylight.... all in plain sight of the NPCs and no reaction i.e. to investigate?
Seeing that was rather awkward.
And even IF covert approach was required, I'd sure not expect to see the Player Ground Force to openly use the Main Gate.
Instead, I'd expect one or more weak spots where they could sneak through, while using Terrain and Buildings as cover (maybe coupled with some "ESM" reading many FPS Games have these days, indicating a rough probability of detection affected by environment, line-of-sight, light levels and noise propagation)
Target Building
Having only two workers inside the building seems okay, as it appeared tiny.
However, the 2nd worker approaching with a gun drawn (but no alarm yet) didn't make sense.
The very moment any of such NPCs feels forced to draw their weapon in self-defense, sure they're hitting the Comms button and sound Alarm, right?
Combat
Hate to say it, but that was - by far - the weakest and most awkward Phase.
- the surrounding Security/Defensive NPCs seemed to hold a Combat Rank of "incompetent" and acted "harmless" most of the time.
- very poor tactical movement and snail-speed despite being equipped with 34th century suits and Weapons doesn't mix well with hesitant "wild west" shootouts
- Skimmers didn't even appear to join the Combat Phase at all near the building despite Player 1 (Combat guy) performing multiple "suicide moves" outside the Building with zero cover against the whole defensive horde
Egress
- both suddenly running outside and right in front of the entire Defensive Crew (????!) Sorry, that should be your instant scenario failure, plain and clear suicide (Reason : if you can simply tank an entire Defensive Ground Installation just by running past them in front of their noses... there's no point in even bothering or having them in the 1st place.... just dash in, do your thing, dash out and ignore all resistance)
- instead of having only the main exit of the building, I'd very much would have preferred them rapidly hacking themselves through some secondary Air Locks at least in order to have a chance to escape the building without immediately facing the whole Defensive Grid
- the Goliath at the end appearing right next to the Egress Vehicle IMHO should be a total show-stopper, at minimum a worst-case Situation like this should require a Heavy Weapons guy to momentarily disable such a beast. This one acted like it was hacked or something.... all it had to do was to ram the Egress Vehicle to ignite its Ship-disabling EMP bomb and the whole show would have been over
- the Egress Vehicle never came under heavy fire despite being guilty by association (Wing of 3), I'd expect such a Ship in a now-Wanted Wing having to make a rough landing into a "LZ is Hot !!" Scenario and be under significant fire
NPC behavior and Player bullet sponging in general
It's pre-Alpha... and it shows. Slow, unintelligent and non-tactical like an unorganized scout club.
These NPCs made our two actors look like Thor and Superman teamed up and went in there - almost invincible and facing minimal resistance.
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I wouldn't mind :
- being forced to land in some distance
- using Optics/Sniper Rifle Scope etc. to pre-scout the Installation and mark to-be-enemies
- try to find a useful/exploitable pattern or weakness in the presented movements of targets
- check a MiniMap for orientation and work out a Plan B egress Route if Alarms are triggered
- stealth in with a realistic and truly tactical approach (don't be seen and don't draw attention) or try the hard way if the plan is good and lots of manpower at your disposal
- punish clear mistakes... you don't take cover in front of the entire angry based - you eat led/energy and just drop... your mates (or NPC mates) have to drag you into cover, maybe you're reduced to crawling and/or your buddies need to revive/rre-mobilize you then - or vice versa (tactical decision - leave your buddy behind and lose the support... or risk a little, stimpack the guy back into walking condition and have that support back in your team)
The whole foundation of the design btw. should honor the most realistic Scenario :
- vast majority of Players will at all times act alone, at best with NPC support (not shown in the footage)
- means 1 Player will have to manage that whole show at all times, no Wing, no MultiCrew, no Voice Comms to give commands to another human
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Maybe you could park your SRV outside for a quick getaway
They were not wanted by the faction and they got permission to land at the base.
They were not walking about weapons drawn, they were just trying to evade being scanned
The NPCs were level 1 (and pre-alpha)
Maybe watch the livestream QA as well?
this resonates a lot with my own feelings, except your level of zen is truly something i envy. godspeed.
Guaranteed this is how people are gonna be doing it in real life, on an endless relog loop, to acquire enough collectibles to make their shields even more impervious.
It would be so lovely if they moved a few more of Elite's intended gameplay loops out of their imaginations and into the optimal paths of players.
I think this is why my initial reaction to the footage is negative; the disconnect between what they're larping on about and what the game seems to actually require of them. It's like when new commanders think that smuggling is more complex than just boosting in the slot.
A few people will always be happy with the Isinona approach of using Elite as a loose box of unstructured sand in which to enact their spaceman dreams and impose their own balance, but generally speaking good mechanics run on more than wishful thinking and whimsy.
In Switzerland the base game is already for "teens".
? What's the point of this question?
Deleted member 38366
D
I re-reviewed the footage and you're right about drawn guns. I misinterpreted something there in the middle.
I only evaluated what I saw in the linked Video and gave feedback on it, not more.
I fully understand this is all pre-Alpha, we'll see how things will move from there one (which was the point of my feedback, as we still have quite some way to go it seems, so I deem it useful to emphasize Details I hope will be significantly improved upon and maybe see little tactical features appear along with it).
To be honest the idea that it was a pool of 5 missions wouldn't bother me in the least as long as I can do stuff I find enjoyable without having to bother with missions, I would be very disappointed if missions weren't as ignorable as in the rest of the game.
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Yeah I do think the demo was pretty limited in terms of drawing conclusions from it. One player was wearing armour, he was the one taking most of the fire. The other (who's egress we watched) wasn't and I don't know if he benefitted from the other drawing fire off him. The base was powered down from the mission, so no ground to air turret fire and they were out of there fast so security ships either didn't scan for wanted players aboard or didn't have time to make the escape difficult.
Even think the alpha will prove a less than perfect test because it all does depend on what you're trying to achieve in game and in the moment, either in terms of the BGS or in the first person experience at the very least. Or for example if you have to wear a scout suit to access tools used to break into the mainframe, sheer numbers of defenders will compensate for any lack of individual NPC skill and what seemed like ineffective pre-alpha defender gunfire is probably more dangerous to your health than it looked, if your individual mission prevents you from wearing the heavy duty suits.
I doubt many wing missions will involve going up against tier 1 NPCs either.
IMHO We (well, many of us) wanted Space Legs, to walk around our ship (at a minimum), get Missions from NPCs at stations, exploring inside stations and planetary outposts, and landing on worlds with atmosphere to explore.
We got an FPS. It seems the entire purpose of Odyssey is shooting, with specific gear required. I realize pilots don't have to involve themselves with missions like the one shown, so maybe I shouldn't complain about that, but we can't even walk into our ship using the stairs that are quite obvious on many ships. I guess they couldn't transpose from outside to inside the ship without a pause, but simply waiting for a door to open should be sufficient to change from outside to inside. Maybe they plan on adding exploration uses for walking around.
I'd rather see shooting against Thargoids or other species added to the game or finding new installations that could be explored to find clues to new content, like what happened at Dav's Hope, maybe showing where the mine is and mini-sleuth games like how we found the Thargoid Device and turned it on.
Time will tell.
We got an FPS. It seems the entire purpose of Odyssey is shooting, with specific gear required. I realize pilots don't have to involve themselves with missions like the one shown, so maybe I shouldn't complain about that, but we can't even walk into our ship using the stairs that are quite obvious on many ships. I guess they couldn't transpose from outside to inside the ship without a pause, but simply waiting for a door to open should be sufficient to change from outside to inside. Maybe they plan on adding exploration uses for walking around.
I'd rather see shooting against Thargoids or other species added to the game or finding new installations that could be explored to find clues to new content, like what happened at Dav's Hope, maybe showing where the mine is and mini-sleuth games like how we found the Thargoid Device and turned it on.
Time will tell.
Deleted member 38366
D
It also made me think about a small Detail :
- we know there'll be another Rank when it comes to on-foot Exploration (related to sampling Xeno Biology)
I wonder if another Combat-related Rank would make sense :
- i.e. Marksman / Ground Combat Rank
After all, even Triple ELITE CMDRs who might be the best behind Ship Controls will start their Journey on foot from scratch with Odyssey - just like a Harmless, brand new CMDR.
I take it when Players organize Ground Forces, eventually it might be helpful knowing the level of FPS Combat experience/skill of the own team ?
We can see what when forming Wings in Ships - but on foot, things and experience probably will be quite different.
Might be very useful having some kind of Ground Combat Rank shown, so people know who they're dealing with.
(on the contrary hehe.... it might be interesting just as well having no idea, leaving it risky to i.e. engage another Player on the Ground and having no idea if that.... might be a bad idea )
- we know there'll be another Rank when it comes to on-foot Exploration (related to sampling Xeno Biology)
I wonder if another Combat-related Rank would make sense :
- i.e. Marksman / Ground Combat Rank
After all, even Triple ELITE CMDRs who might be the best behind Ship Controls will start their Journey on foot from scratch with Odyssey - just like a Harmless, brand new CMDR.
I take it when Players organize Ground Forces, eventually it might be helpful knowing the level of FPS Combat experience/skill of the own team ?
We can see what when forming Wings in Ships - but on foot, things and experience probably will be quite different.
Might be very useful having some kind of Ground Combat Rank shown, so people know who they're dealing with.
(on the contrary hehe.... it might be interesting just as well having no idea, leaving it risky to i.e. engage another Player on the Ground and having no idea if that.... might be a bad idea
)
Agree that the AI was easy. Watch them become bullet sponges later tho.
Agree that the AI was easy. Watch them become bullet sponges later tho.
I do wonder if they toned the AI response down so it'll appeal to a small but vocal minority of existing players that would litter the thread with concern posts about the NPC being too tough.
Not complaining, or concerned
Have to admit, I loved that. I kinda 'roleplay' in solo the way they play coop in the video, so it suits me fine.
- Planets look gorgeous, if nothing else that's a huge positive.
- Love the detail on the new installations, inside and out (and I love it's all seamless, no transitions or instancing). Hopefully they're not too small and repetitive, would like to see variety and complexity in building layouts and sizes.
- Player animations looked a little twitchy, though it's early days.
- The AI looked a little basic in this example (not using cover better etc.) though as has been said perhaps the purpose was to show a full mission and not die. It's easy enough to dial up the NPC damage if needed, but hopefully they'll be smarter at cover/weapon selection/flanking etc. in game. As a solo player, this is probably the most important bit.
- The on-foot HUD seems a bit imbalanced to me, all the gauges on the left hand side and the right is mostly empty. I wonder if there's something that pops up on the right-hand side at other times?
- Hopefully we'll see more complex mission templates that mix and match on-foot and flying action. E.g. "Fly to installation X, dismantle their power source, then fly to nearby installation Y and attack it now it's defences are down"; ideally with some reasons behind the mission.
- Planets look gorgeous, if nothing else that's a huge positive.
- Love the detail on the new installations, inside and out (and I love it's all seamless, no transitions or instancing). Hopefully they're not too small and repetitive, would like to see variety and complexity in building layouts and sizes.
- Player animations looked a little twitchy, though it's early days.
- The AI looked a little basic in this example (not using cover better etc.) though as has been said perhaps the purpose was to show a full mission and not die. It's easy enough to dial up the NPC damage if needed, but hopefully they'll be smarter at cover/weapon selection/flanking etc. in game. As a solo player, this is probably the most important bit.
- The on-foot HUD seems a bit imbalanced to me, all the gauges on the left hand side and the right is mostly empty. I wonder if there's something that pops up on the right-hand side at other times?
- Hopefully we'll see more complex mission templates that mix and match on-foot and flying action. E.g. "Fly to installation X, dismantle their power source, then fly to nearby installation Y and attack it now it's defences are down"; ideally with some reasons behind the mission.