Odyssey trailer - thoughts?

[BartTP]

I like your analogy with the SRV.
Never knew I wanted it either until it arrived, and now it’s a part of the game I enjoy. Not a big part granted, but I’m glad it’s there.

Footfall could well be the same. If it’s done well. Sunset screen shots with my Commander himself looking out, instead of the SRV, will be very nice I think.
And maybe a little FPS pew pew, sure. (although given what I’ve seen this will be limited, and possibly just a once-only experience before I get back in my ship and carry on playing the game...).

I also very much doubt I’ll be bothered going down the engineers route for body suits, hand weapons and whatnot though. I wouldn’t engineer my SRV either, if that was an option (and I’m grateful it isn’t).

I also have a ship-related reason to get in my SRV, which is to farm materials to improve my ships. SRVs fit in with the wider (space ship) game. I’m wondering whether something similar is planned for Odyssey, or whether it is literally just a stand-alone optional add-on feature? Anyone know?

This might make a difference to my quality tolerance levels. If there’s a bigger reason to get out my ship, then I’ll do it, and will accept a lower quality, because I gain in other ways.
But if the reason to walk around is simply to do it (which is perfectly legitimate), then it has to be implemented well, it really does...

But how often do you actually do planetary missions? That's the equivalent of Odyssey here. They are fun yet repetitive so I don't do them unless I really need to get some rare material and can't afford it from a material trader (and that means once or twice in a year). And remember skimmer missions? They were clearly designed to do with SRVs, yet players immediately started to carpet bomb/missile strike settlements with their ships.

Now, like I said - I really don't mind FPS aspect in Elite. Hell, I don't really care if it looks bad even in the final product - because I don't really care about FPS element. All I wanted was to be able to land on more planets and I got that. My real concerns are about FDev's priorities and that this aspect will consume FDev's resources and manpower in years to come, leaving other aspects (and issues) of the game untouched - especially given the fact that FDev isn't particulary experienced with creating FPS games, so I expect troubles, plenty of issues and bugs - and all that in the ocean of unresolved issues we already have (especially my favorite blue tunnel bug).

Maybe I am wrong and end up in loving FPS aspect of Odyssey. Who knows. But the fact is, this wasn't a popular demand (like I said in previous posts) - so I'm surprised FDev decided to focus on that aspect, instead of polishing the universe (planets especially) first. Maybe the other dude is right that adding space legs without FPS aspect would be a missed opportunity, but I think they started off the wrong foot. They should make space legs first according to popular demand (ships' and stations' internals, walking around the ship on planet surface and making all those places interesting enough so they are worth for being visited) - and after polishing this - add a FPS aspect, not the other way around.

 

[Jukelo]

But how often do you actually do planetary missions? That's the equivalent of Odyssey here. They are fun yet repetitive so I don't do them unless I really need to get some rare material and can't afford it from a material trader (and that means once or twice in a year). And remember skimmer missions? They were clearly designed to do with SRVs, yet players immediately started to carpet bomb/missile strike settlements with their ships.

Personally I regularly do planetary missions. I like flying down to the surface of planets, and I love driving the SRV, so missions are a good excuse to do just that.
On-foot missions will be the same, getting down to eye-level, walking around a small settlement with a mountain towering in the background, which you know you can get to? That's peak gaming for me, it's what I've been dreaming of since Frontier 2, so any opportunity I'll get, that's what I'll be doing for a while.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

I've just remembered, they already pushed this release back, didn't they?

They were set with a release date, then we got the open letter, then we got FCs as a sort of....hold this until we get the release out because we're delaying the release until we fix a load of stuff. They then had to spend months fixing a load of stuff associated with FCs (still not completely done), so I'm not sure what the other things are that they were fixing.

In the original timeline, Odyssey was already released by now. I know covid would have had an impact but really, looking at what we've seen, with all of the above in mind. That is a little scary. Maybe I have remembered events incorrectly.

 

[Winterwalker]

Maybe I am wrong and end up in loving FPS aspect of Odyssey. Who knows. But the fact is, this wasn't a popular demand (like I said in previous posts) - so I'm surprised FDev decided to focus on that aspect, instead of polishing the universe (planets especially) first. Maybe the other dude is right that adding space legs without FPS aspect would be a missed opportunity, but I think they started off the wrong foot. They should make space legs first according to popular demand (ships' and stations' internals, walking around the ship on planet surface and making all those places interesting enough so they are worth for being visited) - and after polishing this - add a FPS aspect, not the other way around.

To be fair space legs have been the stuff of legend on this forum for years. There are some who aren't bothered but many have wanted it since forever and how many FPS shooters are there (even basic ones) with 400 billion star systems? That's a new audience, cash money for development.

There are technical reasons I think for not adding ship interiors right away, as well as gameplay ones. Getting the avatars walking about on 400,000,000,000 procedurally generated surfaces and interacting with things they find there is a big development and the gameplay reasons for going into bases are pretty clear. Gameplay reasons are a bit less clear for walking on a ship - why even do that more than once - and when that's flying through space at the time it's a different technical challenge but one that's made a lot easier when avatars are already stable, interacting with environments and trusted on 400,000,000,000 different surfaces.

Even though ship internals seem an obvious extension from a cockpit, if you think of Odyssey as a new player, FPS as the starting point - new players, new audience - it's less obvious why you'd want to start on a ship you don't own. But the two do meet in the middle .. I want to access overhead panels on my ship to improve or protect my ship from you, while an Odyssey player wants to get on there to disable it. That's where gameplay starts to emerge I think. Yes we need to wait but for good reason imo.

 

[BartTP]

To be fair space legs have been the stuff of legend on this forum for years. There are some who aren't bothered but many have wanted it since forever and how many FPS shooters are there (even basic ones) with 400 billion star systems? That's a new audience, cash money for development.

There are technical reasons I think for not adding ship interiors right away, as well as gameplay ones. Getting the avatars walking about on 400,000,000,000 procedurally generated surfaces and interacting with things they find there is a big development and the gameplay reasons for going into bases are pretty clear. Gameplay reasons are a bit less clear for walking on a ship - why even do that more than once - and when that's flying through space at the time it's a different technical challenge but one that's made a lot easier when avatars are already stable, interacting with environments and trusted on 400,000,000,000 different surfaces.

Even though ship internals seem an obvious extension from a cockpit, if you think of Odyssey as a new player, FPS as the starting point - new players, new audience - it's less obvious why you'd want to start on a ship you don't own. But the two do meet in the middle .. I want to access overhead panels on my ship to improve or protect my ship from you, while an Odyssey player wants to get on there to disable it. That's where gameplay starts to emerge I think. Yes we need to wait but for good reason imo.

I just said what was (and is) a popular demand. Personally I couldn't agree more that ship internals are pretty boring stuff and I personally never advocated for them. What I really care is an interesting enviroment my ship/srv/cmdr is in. So - comets, multiple light sources, caves, weather, wind, snowfalls, meteors, blizzards, sandstorms, dust devils, real volcanos with lava rivers, animated plants (not static ones we have now) - all things you can have on thin atmosphere worlds. I believe if they put their resources and manpower into that instead of all those guns, guards' AI, suits and everything that makes a FPS game - they could bring all that to life and probably sooner.

And after we have all that - sure, go full on FPS. As a season 2 or 3, not an initial launch.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I just said what was (and is) a popular demand. Personally I couldn't agree more that ship internals are pretty boring stuff and I personally never advocated for them. What I really care is an interesting enviroment my ship/srv/cmdr is in. So - comets, multiple light sources, caves, weather, wind, snowfalls, meteors, blizzards, sandstorms, dust devils, real volcanos with lava rivers, animated plants (not static ones we have now) - all things you can have on thin atmosphere worlds. I believe if they put their resources and manpower into that instead of all those guns, guards' AI, suits and everything that makes a FPS game - they could bring all that to life and probably sooner.

And after we have all that - sure, go full on FPS. As a season 2 or 3, not an initial launch.

How we all differ...

Your vision for what the game should have been developed into would leave me cold, and not spending for the expansion over my 4 accounts...
I'm not against the rather basic FPS I hope Odyssey ends up having - and have my doubts that Frontier would expend resources into making further paid expansion focus on FPS rather than the remaining kickstarter 'promises'.

Naturally my impression of the FPS gameplay could be entirely wrong and millions of the current 'shooty' crowd will flock to the planetary surfaces offered by Odyssey to stage wars on a scale never before seen in the game, thousands of players in a single instance doing "Battle Royale" across the surface of Deciat... Blood flowing like a river on the 'streets' of Felicity's base, epic...

We shall all have to do exactly the same as eachother, wait and see what Odyssey actually offers, then see the direction the game goes from there.

Some players will no doubt be so incensed by the game being 'polluted' by combat everywhere that they will storm away from the game in incredibly vocal 'rage quit' posts, but I imagine that most will just keep on playing the game they enjoy, using the new resources in ways that amuse them.

 

[Morbad]

I'm pretty sure I'll get hundreds of hours of entertainment out of explosive barrels alone. Underneath all the automation and limiters, there is a real physics engine in this game, and I am a firm believer that there is no feat of war, love, or diplomacy that cannot be achieved through proper timing and explosive lensing.

View attachment 211530

Federal Agent Paul Smecker of the Void Rangers ATR division investigating multiple ten-notoriety cases of aggravated medkit theft in conjunction with the lesser crimes of mass murder of peasants and an attempted gank by an alleged serial crusher:

Spoiler: may contain a small amount of off-color language

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsuH1msEkvM

 

[Winterwalker]

I'm pretty sure I'll get hundreds of hours of entertainment out of explosive barrels alone. Underneath all the automation and limiters, there is a real physics engine in this game, and I am a firm believer that there is no feat of war, love, or diplomacy that cannot be achieved through proper timing and explosive lensing.

I've got several tons of explosives, nerve agents and toxic waste stored on WW Bulk Carrier ready for this exact eventuality!

 

[thistle]

I just said what was (and is) a popular demand. Personally I couldn't agree more that ship internals are pretty boring stuff and I personally never advocated for them. What I really care is an interesting enviroment my ship/srv/cmdr is in. So - comets, multiple light sources, caves, weather, wind, snowfalls, meteors, blizzards, sandstorms, dust devils, real volcanos with lava rivers, animated plants (not static ones we have now) - all things you can have on thin atmosphere worlds. I believe if they put their resources and manpower into that instead of all those guns, guards' AI, suits and everything that makes a FPS game - they could bring all that to life and probably sooner.

And after we have all that - sure, go full on FPS. As a season 2 or 3, not an initial launch.

I still believe the sequence (walking on planets, stations, with eva and ship walking/boarding kept until later) is a technical decision as much as anything else. You can see the progression, it's logical - currently we ARE the ship, now we will be able through a new version of multicrew to board other peoples ships. Using existing mechanics and presumably code logic. And walk on planets, similar to driving an srv. The jump to eva/boarding, and uninvited boarding of other peoples ships will mean (I think) rewriting all the instancing code so any number of people can board ships etc regardless of current restrictions ie multicrew.

 

[lysan]

I still believe the sequence (walking on planets, stations, with eva and ship walking/boarding kept until later) is a technical decision as much as anything else. You can see the progression, it's logical - currently we ARE the ship, now we will be able through a new version of multicrew to board other peoples ships. Using existing mechanics and presumably code logic. And walk on planets, similar to driving an srv. The jump to eva/boarding, and uninvited boarding of other peoples ships will mean (I think) rewriting all the instancing code so any number of people can board ships etc regardless of current restrictions ie multicrew.

Agree that is also why we only get spacelegs now and didn’t start with it.

the engine was not ready, that’s also why SC got a good FPS base and the ship flight model suck, the engine was made for FPS not flying around.

 

[Franc Kaos]

I also think that even if I never get out of my ship it will be nice to see characters wandering about at the bases. I wonder if we'll only see them at the settlements (which seems to be what's implied).

Please gods no! The only thing about spacelegs I'm excited about is having NPCs populate the galaxy (and tenuous atmos). They need to be everywhere, crew running around the flight deck, silhouettes in office windows, driving SRVs across planets surfaces...

Yes, this. They only gave us a gameplay demo because everybody whinged so much.
Im genuinely excited to play Odyssey - even if it was just the early build they demo'd I'm excited to play it!

Pretty sure a marketing droid said, next drip of hype merchandise please, not because a bunch of forumites, Redditors etc were whining for more information.

Perhaps we could petition Frontier to remove any combat from legs and just reduce it to a walking simulator and space plant scanner sim.

Or maybe include EVA & zero G combats & exploration - not just a basic 1Gravity First Person Shooter.

This isn't a Horizons scenario, buy into a two year upgrade path. It's pay for an update the size of Horizons two year output. What they've shown (and talked about) doesn't even sound as exciting as Horizons landing on planets for the first time and driving an SRV, never mind what came after, including the Thargoids, holo-me, multicrew, SLFs, passengers, external camera's, engineers, improved crafting...

 

[Bantha]

I’m not particularly anti-FPS in ED per se (although I do think there’s so many other areas that could be improved instead, which should be the priority).

But if they’re going to do it, at least do it well.

I went into YouTube to have another look at the demo, and came across The Pilot’s review

Source: https://youtu.be/HVBkaQ3DECE


Pretty much sums up my thoughts entirely...

 

[Winterwalker]

Pretty much sums up my thoughts entirely...

I've just given that a watch. Possibly a good example of how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Doesn't realise why ships are less accurate against skimmers and skimmers less accurate against pedestrians? Lots of comments really - like sneaking in or soldiers 'not seeing them' - that clearly missed the livestream and have no idea why that was the case.

I've not watched him before and not sure I will again. Is he always that miserable or is he just sooooo disappointed? Bless.

comets, multiple light sources, caves, weather, wind, snowfalls, meteors, blizzards, sandstorms, dust devils, real volcanos with lava rivers, animated plants (not static ones we have now)

And after we have all that - sure, go full on FPS. As a season 2 or 3, not an initial launch.

I get why you want that stuff. Really, I want it too but I think you're still putting the cart before the horse. Stellar Forge is about to get a performance overhaul so it can populate those things procedurally and FDev's engine has other games, with weather patterns, they can paste that stuff over to Elite. But that's window dressing compared to the core mechanic of <your avatar> being <blown around by> the tornado or <burned up by> the lava?

Your avatar <can get shot> too .. and a cash injection brought about by a little pew pew helps to pay the DJ?

 

[LeoBartlet]

I’m not particularly anti-FPS in ED per se (although I do think there’s so many other areas that could be improved instead, which should be the priority).

But if they’re going to do it, at least do it well.

I went into YouTube to have another look at the demo, and came across The Pilot’s review

Source: https://youtu.be/HVBkaQ3DECE


Pretty much sums up my thoughts entirely...

Is it a breakdown of the video or will it be him actually having a breakdown?

 

[Cosmo]

The comments on Obsidian Ant's video about the trailer are mixed. Here are a few top rated comments of what people think:

The Man On The Mountain
"I just want adventure, mysteries, exploration, breathtaking landscapes... Legs for pew pew, seriously, the market is saturated with that kind of sht that I don't give a single fk. I am not against combat, but with a purpose. Not more battle arenas please."

Harry Underhill
"Got to be honest, Alpha or no Alpha, as an FPS this all looks a bit generic, flat and uninspiring. If it was stand alone game the FPS element looks like one of those "made with Unity" games on Steam that doesn't get enough user reviews to give it either a positive or negative rating."

BRUXXUS
"The running animation looks a little.... weird? I’ve been pretty impressed with the character animation until this. Most people don’t run while keeping both knees bent the whole time, which is why it looks odd.
That said, I see what they’re going for and think it could be fun. The enemy AI is very concerning. That’s a deep, fundamental system that studios spend a ton of time and resources on. This is not something that they can fix in a couple weeks."

Cmdr Tiger King
"🗹 No footage of atmospheric entrance
🗹 Guards deaf and blind
🗹 Nonexistant AI
🗹 Making sure to cut exit/entree of ship
Loved it <3"

Rhonda Fizzleflint
"I understand why Ant is cautious when showing and commenting Alpha-builds and why he says things like "it's an Alpha and we might see improvements". But given FDev's track record, I am quite sure, this Alpha is exactly what will be delivered to us."

Chris Hexx
"In today's market of fps shooters this would never stand out on it's own, at least in the state I watched in the trailer.
Really hope they weren't exaggerating the improvements made. I'd take 3 years of handcrafting the Elite universe rather than a generic FPS module."

J S
"I doubt you'll see much improvement to the AI....and suspect years from now it will be one of the complaints common on the forums and threads. Its a very hard thing to get working even for devs in games that specialize in it and I highly doubt Frontier has the knowhow nor the desire = $$ to invest in this. Missions will get boring very very quick, as they will be the same over and over with no story or reason to do them in the first place. They will release this and keep it at bare minimum to make some sales/profit but that's it. Hope they prove me wrong....but I highly doubt it so expect dumb AI and expect to quickly get bored of the same cookie cutter missions and you'll not be disappointed."

Raijin Gaming
"This looks incredibly rough as far as the AI design goes. These are all the same expected traits from a developer doing ground styled combat for the first time. This harkens back to PS1 era AI coding and is evident that there isn't enough experience in the team to figure out advanced routines for them to utilize and you can fully expect this not to change by the time this launches. AI would be one of the first things tackled in design, not later, so don't expect this to work anything like modern shooters. That said, there are plenty of current day games that feature similarly simplistic AI and still have enough success on their own. Warframe is one of the, where AI enemies do routinely just stand out in the open, and if they do decide to use cover, it isn't always good cover that actually protects them. Just the same, their AI sometimes bugs out and has enemies hide behind cover and never do anything more, even if the player walks right up to them and stares them in the face. What a game with simple design for these mechanics would need to do instead is offset the poor AI with LOTS of enemies. Waves, respawns, that sort of thing. Make it more about numbers than tactics, because this dev team just isn't that cutting edge for that. It'll be a little funky to get used to, if you're a modern gamer, but it can still work."

Haunted
"Finally! Space legs! This looks awesome, looks like a completely different game, very excited to hop in and explore on foot. Seeing the chieftain and goliath fly over the players head really gives a different scale of the game too!"

 

[LeoBartlet]

and?

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

I'm not sure what a YouTube Comments Digest does for the conversation, they're only what we have here, opinions. It was always going to be the case, some love the idea, some hate it, some think the implementation look ok, others don't, some see potential, some see pitfalls.

There will be but one fact, that will be the release, this will give birth to a million more opinions, is it good, is it bad, what they should have done, what they shouldn't have done.

Nothing wrong with opinions, until they get dressed as facts or until people start expecting their opinions to become facts. We think this so FD should do that.

 

[LeoBartlet]

I'm not sure what a YouTube Comments Digest does for the conversation, they're only what we have here, opinions. It was always going to be the case, some love the idea, some hate it, some think the implementation look ok, others don't, some see potential, some see pitfalls.

There will be but one fact, that will be the release, this will give birth to a million more opinions, is it good, is it bad, what they should have done, what they shouldn't have done.

Nothing wrong with opinions, until they get dressed as facts or until people start expecting their opinions to become facts. We think this so FD should do that.

You have to appreciate how cute it was of Cosmo to post nine peoples comments with eight of them negative and a cheeky wee positive one at the end.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I've not watched him before and not sure I will again. Is he always that miserable or is he just sooooo disappointed? Bless.

His 'reviews' of all of the ships are excellent and have a great deal of humour and insight in them - worth watching many times in my opinion.

Post-review phase does appear to be along the same lines of the 'disappointed' youtubers, but he tells us that is what his target audience want - so perfect sense as they make money for him at the end of each month.

Maybe you and me are not his target audience and find topic and presentation less than engaging? Optimism in gaming does appear to be 'unfashionable' particularly when developers are viewed in such a poor light by some.

Obsidian Ant's presentation is pretty reasonable, The Buur Pit's one even better.

The comments on all of the youtube sites (including Frontier's) vary from very positive to positively offensive... but it is the internet, after all.

 

[PontifusRex]

Not much to add other than what has already been said.

However, having participated in a number of alpha and beta builds from other games (that were close to the scheduled release date) over the years, what we played was pretty much exactly what we got when the game finally shipped.

Bummer.