I want to use missiles, more specifically dumb fire missiles..
But they are such a steaming pile of useless garbage!
Yea i know packhouds exist and they are borderline toxic because they are so easy to use and just destroy hard points and thrusters. Seekers are close on this but are much more easily countered with PDT.
And then there is dumb fire missiles..
Harder to hit with than plasma! Do less damage.. are hard countered by shields.. (yea shields the elephant in the room, thats been in the room so long its died of old age).. and PDTs. They need hicap mags to be even slightly worth it. Then when you use them and land the hits on the hull.. dissapointment is all you get for your troubles.
The effect missiles have on hard points and thrusters is a problem of many sides, i think its too strong on seekers and packhounds and this is what makes them too good/toxic. Dumb fires its not so bad cus of how bad they are, you may as well use plasma or cannons. Both are easier to use, have more ammo and cant be shot down.
In pve, using seekers/packs will remove the npcs hardpoints and they will flee the battle when this happens. Unless you take out the drives too.. then they will drift off into the abyss some times at speeds you cant catch up to. Who wants any of that!
Useing them on specific hardpoints to take some bite out of an anaconda seems like it might be usefull some times, and useing them to take out thrusters during piracy again can be usefull.. kind of. But i think if seekers and packs did half the damage they do now to external modules, this effect in pve would be largely the same. The ammo required to remove thrusters with seekers is going to be fine for piracy and declawing larger ships if thats what you want them for in pve.
In pvp.. they are meme wepons, you will score no rep or bounties for that matter using them.. and you need to chew thrugh the insainity shields first. Unless the oponant has some class and isnt running insainity shields and then you will just be taking off the guns and thrusters and or watching them hiwake in disgust. Contributing heavily to the viability of hull tanks and hibrids. #FDLs are boring now.
Back in 1.1 missiles were OP to all hell! And in classic style were nerfed so hard into the ground they would be declared a subterranean species. Upon re emergance they were given this magical insaine effect on hardpoints and left to rott forever more in the pergatory so many wepons find them selvs in, under the yolk of the mighty multicannon and plasma acceleraters.. i mean even pulse lasers are better than dumb fire missiles and arguably even packhounds lol.
So what is to be done?
Dumb fire missiles need a buff, now why are dumb fires so bad? Welp the damage they do on paper is comparable to overcharged C2 cannons and with the increased mags they have similar damage potential. BUT they are harder to hit with and can be shot down and do less damage to shields. Now i dont know if the arming distance of 500m is aplicable to dumb fires, but if it is, then theres another reason why they suck!
Also because of the module damage they do the actual damage is spread about across the modules and they do pitiful damage to the hull of a ship dispite having a damage bonus on hull.
If you put penetrator munitions on them.. same thing but internal modues.. better off with standard cannon for that role.. indeed every role.
Remove the hardpoint destruction effect or at least half it! Then make the AOE smaller this will make them more specific about what module they damage and help the toxicity of explosive munitions as a whole.
Give dumb fire missiles better blueprints and effects. Penetratior munitions is ok.. i get that it can be OP, or was considered so on cannons during a beta 3.1...? and was bopped with the holy nerf bat. Thogh in practive as it stands you need to land many missiles to hollow out even a medium ship in pve.
Some good additions would be:
Magnesium tips: Smaller explosive munitions that burn hotter on inpact. Removing the AOE but doing more explosive damage to hulls.
How is corosive not an option on these?
Hardened shells: significantly increses missile integrity, reducing the effectiveness of PDTs at a cost of projectiles speed or range?
Limpet war heads: removes explosive potential and instead latches onto targets and pushes them like a small thruster. Lasts a few seconds and disrupts ship movement by adding a constant thrust vector on the angle the missles has hit. (These could also instead add retro thrust that must be countered or the shipwill be pulled in the direction of the missiles angle. helping pirates slow targets esp after knocking out thrusters.)
In short..
Seekers should do less damage to thrusters and hardpoints, not so much they are useless mind, but that more specific targeting is required to remove all the external modules.
Dumb fires should act more like classic torpedoes do, and be heavy explosive hitters with customisable warheads. Less effective at module distruction than seekers.
This would leave shields as a massive missile defence and PDTs would be usefull as they are now. Whole sale destruction of hard points would be reduced and the skill required to hit with dumbfires would be rewarded with effective and unique utility and damage options. Also pirates might finaly get the grappling hook effects they so badly long for.
I wish missiles were great again.. not 1.1 great but not the scum they are today.
I know all this is in vain for the most part as aparently no balance is needed and hasnt been for a few years now given the lack of attempts by fdev or even acknowledgement lol but mabe one day when hell finaly freezes over these things might get considered.
Thoughts?
But they are such a steaming pile of useless garbage!
Yea i know packhouds exist and they are borderline toxic because they are so easy to use and just destroy hard points and thrusters. Seekers are close on this but are much more easily countered with PDT.
And then there is dumb fire missiles..
Harder to hit with than plasma! Do less damage.. are hard countered by shields.. (yea shields the elephant in the room, thats been in the room so long its died of old age).. and PDTs. They need hicap mags to be even slightly worth it. Then when you use them and land the hits on the hull.. dissapointment is all you get for your troubles.
The effect missiles have on hard points and thrusters is a problem of many sides, i think its too strong on seekers and packhounds and this is what makes them too good/toxic. Dumb fires its not so bad cus of how bad they are, you may as well use plasma or cannons. Both are easier to use, have more ammo and cant be shot down.
In pve, using seekers/packs will remove the npcs hardpoints and they will flee the battle when this happens. Unless you take out the drives too.. then they will drift off into the abyss some times at speeds you cant catch up to. Who wants any of that!
Useing them on specific hardpoints to take some bite out of an anaconda seems like it might be usefull some times, and useing them to take out thrusters during piracy again can be usefull.. kind of. But i think if seekers and packs did half the damage they do now to external modules, this effect in pve would be largely the same. The ammo required to remove thrusters with seekers is going to be fine for piracy and declawing larger ships if thats what you want them for in pve.
In pvp.. they are meme wepons, you will score no rep or bounties for that matter using them.. and you need to chew thrugh the insainity shields first. Unless the oponant has some class and isnt running insainity shields and then you will just be taking off the guns and thrusters and or watching them hiwake in disgust. Contributing heavily to the viability of hull tanks and hibrids. #FDLs are boring now.
Back in 1.1 missiles were OP to all hell! And in classic style were nerfed so hard into the ground they would be declared a subterranean species. Upon re emergance they were given this magical insaine effect on hardpoints and left to rott forever more in the pergatory so many wepons find them selvs in, under the yolk of the mighty multicannon and plasma acceleraters.. i mean even pulse lasers are better than dumb fire missiles and arguably even packhounds lol.
So what is to be done?
Dumb fire missiles need a buff, now why are dumb fires so bad? Welp the damage they do on paper is comparable to overcharged C2 cannons and with the increased mags they have similar damage potential. BUT they are harder to hit with and can be shot down and do less damage to shields. Now i dont know if the arming distance of 500m is aplicable to dumb fires, but if it is, then theres another reason why they suck!
Also because of the module damage they do the actual damage is spread about across the modules and they do pitiful damage to the hull of a ship dispite having a damage bonus on hull.
If you put penetrator munitions on them.. same thing but internal modues.. better off with standard cannon for that role.. indeed every role.
Remove the hardpoint destruction effect or at least half it! Then make the AOE smaller this will make them more specific about what module they damage and help the toxicity of explosive munitions as a whole.
Give dumb fire missiles better blueprints and effects. Penetratior munitions is ok.. i get that it can be OP, or was considered so on cannons during a beta 3.1...? and was bopped with the holy nerf bat. Thogh in practive as it stands you need to land many missiles to hollow out even a medium ship in pve.
Some good additions would be:
Magnesium tips: Smaller explosive munitions that burn hotter on inpact. Removing the AOE but doing more explosive damage to hulls.
How is corosive not an option on these?
Hardened shells: significantly increses missile integrity, reducing the effectiveness of PDTs at a cost of projectiles speed or range?
Limpet war heads: removes explosive potential and instead latches onto targets and pushes them like a small thruster. Lasts a few seconds and disrupts ship movement by adding a constant thrust vector on the angle the missles has hit. (These could also instead add retro thrust that must be countered or the shipwill be pulled in the direction of the missiles angle. helping pirates slow targets esp after knocking out thrusters.)
In short..
Seekers should do less damage to thrusters and hardpoints, not so much they are useless mind, but that more specific targeting is required to remove all the external modules.
Dumb fires should act more like classic torpedoes do, and be heavy explosive hitters with customisable warheads. Less effective at module distruction than seekers.
This would leave shields as a massive missile defence and PDTs would be usefull as they are now. Whole sale destruction of hard points would be reduced and the skill required to hit with dumbfires would be rewarded with effective and unique utility and damage options. Also pirates might finaly get the grappling hook effects they so badly long for.
I wish missiles were great again.. not 1.1 great but not the scum they are today.
I know all this is in vain for the most part as aparently no balance is needed and hasnt been for a few years now given the lack of attempts by fdev or even acknowledgement lol but mabe one day when hell finaly freezes over these things might get considered.
Thoughts?
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