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Sure, it’s all yours. I have Combat this week anyway. Ugh.But, but, but... I thought I could be the leader this week...
Who are the exploration communities "leaders" just now?
- Thread starter GunnerBill
- Start date
Good idea.
I already sounded out ian666, so this is the issue.
As you know I "curate" the SagA* visitors club thread. I hadn't really considered this until just now but a recent visitor posted that they'd hitched a lift 1/2 way on a carrier. Which to me defeats the purpose of the list entirely.
I don't want to close the list but I'm buggered if I'm keeping up a list for tourists catching a lift 20kly!
So unless there's any kind of way to work around this I'm in a bit of a pickle. I like this list.
My head says close the list, my heart says keep it open.
I have just thought that adding way points could be a thing or a jumps before and after leaving screengrab...
That is a valid concern...
The same applies to Beagle Point, where I believe it is a condition, that you cannot get there using the FC...
I guess the only way is to add such condition to the initial post and just rely on the good spirit in which the travelers undertake this voyage...
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As a (sometimes) race organizer in the BRC and (honest) 65kly club member - how much effort are you prepared to put into verification? And where will you draw the line? If you exclude hitching a ride from Sol to Sgr A*, will you permit people who rode to Colonia on a carrier and then made their own path? What about those who used Factabulous' Prison Taxi?
As the Poet once wrote: "The times, they are a'changin'". The face of exploration is also changing, with every new release of ED. We now have easily twice the jump range than before engineers and guardians - and one ship that can't overheat while scooping. Considering that you wrote that your heart tells you to keep the list open, I'd go with that. Maybe ask people to include in their submission whether the used carrier assist (or any other shortcuts - who knows what FD will come up with. How about that pilot transfer system we'll be getting in Odyssey?). If they're honest, their entry will get a checkmark in a column. If they lie, they get a clean entry - and they're only fooling themselves. You can't stop people from doing that (I've given up trying).
Wise words
I assume you mean the 65k Club (it was never just about Beagle, when it started only an Anaconda or an Asp could achieve the range necessary to reach BP, just getting 65kly from Sol was a challenge for most ships, I just made it in my Mk III and needed to use the Roncevaux Crossing to skirt the Abyss).
When I announced my intention to close it I did give a few months grace period for anyone who could show no taxis were involved, but no new members have been added to the list since September.
Close it. Consider it like this, years ago a small group of men landed on the moon and walked and drove around. There are plans for more visits and eventually a moonbase now, 50 years later, should any of these new visitors be added to that 50yo list of the first men who went to the moon? No, that list is forever defined by the time and the technology of the time.
I think that the real question is:
Does the list still have value, and, if so, what is that value and to whom?
You can look at it as @varonica says, that the list was made in a different era with different challenges. I have no intention of owning a Fleet Carrier because I enjoyed the challenges of being some place where I had to actually manage my plot, it made the success real to me; that isn't for everyone, just as, to me, jumping out to a place "ships" cannot go so you can claim them isn't enjoyable. To both of those positions, they (hopefully) did something they enjoyed.
You can also look at the list as an incentive to newer players; I note that PirateScribe/TeenRooster published a thread asking for inspirations just in the last two weeks.
Does it mean to you what it meant when the Center of the Galaxy was still a challenge? Probably not, but it still means things to some people, and, being honest, the trip to Sag A* has always meant different things to different people.
Does the list still have value, and, if so, what is that value and to whom?
You can look at it as @varonica says, that the list was made in a different era with different challenges. I have no intention of owning a Fleet Carrier because I enjoyed the challenges of being some place where I had to actually manage my plot, it made the success real to me; that isn't for everyone, just as, to me, jumping out to a place "ships" cannot go so you can claim them isn't enjoyable. To both of those positions, they (hopefully) did something they enjoyed.
You can also look at the list as an incentive to newer players; I note that PirateScribe/TeenRooster published a thread asking for inspirations just in the last two weeks.
Does it mean to you what it meant when the Center of the Galaxy was still a challenge? Probably not, but it still means things to some people, and, being honest, the trip to Sag A* has always meant different things to different people.
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Surely the only person who has a say in that is the person who started and maintains it!
No, the OP started the thread, sure you can respond it's a discussion forum, but you can't update the list of visitors, that's his list and his alone. You think you can make him keep updating the list? You want a list to keep recording visits start it yourself! The existence of the thread itself has no relation to the existence of the visitors list, that's a bizarre conflation of two entirely different things!
But its part of the history of exploration in Elite, which will be lost over time if its closed.
With tens of thousands of new players coming to the game soon with odyssey, I think its important to preserve as much of the player history as possible as it enriches the world these players will be coming in to. Many of them will be curious about the game and what has happened in the times they weren't around.
The Galactic Mapping Project for example has done a marvelous job of archiving the history exploration in elite, as have both the Sagittarius A visitors list and 65K club threads. Outside of those, there's nothing for new players to look back on and see the rich and evolving history of exploration. Although its a shame the sag-A visitors thread relies on EDSM to record visitors, Many of the early explorers went there before EDSM even existed, or don't even use it, so they never got a mention on the list. That one is a little misleading imo. Nothing can be done about it now though.
I understand the sentiments about how visiting the far off places these days has little meaning compared to the way it was before engineers and carriers, but that's the way things go. We shouldn't let our history fade away, which will happen if we begin closing the few threads that have preserved it from the early days. (just my 2 cents).
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Honestly, I don't understand what is this fuzz about... While I understand the great challenges commander were facing back then and the achievement value behind their bold expeditions towards Sag A, Beagle point or any other distant location, I do not understand the sentiment, that this should be somehow taken away from new commanders who joined the community recently... It is not their fault, that FD makes the game more accessible. For many new commanders, any undertaking like this involves a lot of excitement, drama, adrenalin, sense of goal... While some will take the easy approach and chose a shortcut by taking a hike in a fleet carrier, many others will undertake this endeavour in the same honest spirit the old commanders did...
I am one of them, although I did engineer my ship after my trip to Sag A and Colonia, I still consider these expeditions to be a great challenge and sort of rite of passage. Honestly, I do not care if I am on a list or not, for me the value is in the grit and determination. Someone said, that no new visitors to the BP were added since September, well, that is a bummer, because I have reached BP last month, if it does not secure me a place on the list, so be it, it is not about the list, it si about the trip anyway.
What I would consider a shame would be, if we create an environment, where we will no longer value the determination, good spirit and dedication. Many of the new commanders do not even know, that it used to be much harder before and they undertake the expedition with good intentions, only to learn afterwards, that their determination ad grit is not valued, because of the new features of the game...
Just my 2 cents... And I agree it s a longer reading...
I am one of them, although I did engineer my ship after my trip to Sag A and Colonia, I still consider these expeditions to be a great challenge and sort of rite of passage. Honestly, I do not care if I am on a list or not, for me the value is in the grit and determination. Someone said, that no new visitors to the BP were added since September, well, that is a bummer, because I have reached BP last month, if it does not secure me a place on the list, so be it, it is not about the list, it si about the trip anyway.
What I would consider a shame would be, if we create an environment, where we will no longer value the determination, good spirit and dedication. Many of the new commanders do not even know, that it used to be much harder before and they undertake the expedition with good intentions, only to learn afterwards, that their determination ad grit is not valued, because of the new features of the game...
Just my 2 cents... And I agree it s a longer reading...
But you've failed to follow the advice and ignore the opinion.
Game has changed over the years.
Perhaps the list should change too.
You could have two lists now on the page:
Unassisted travel to Sag A
Assisted travel to Sag A.
Or you could just add a * after the name of those that were assisted,
Or make them a different colour...
ETC.
Operate on an honour system, where you expect the listee to declare if they were assisted or not in their travel when they submit their name.
It is just a visitor book at the end of the day, and they have all been there..
Perhaps the list should change too.
You could have two lists now on the page:
Unassisted travel to Sag A
Assisted travel to Sag A.
Or you could just add a * after the name of those that were assisted,
Or make them a different colour...
ETC.
Operate on an honour system, where you expect the listee to declare if they were assisted or not in their travel when they submit their name.
It is just a visitor book at the end of the day, and they have all been there..
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Why will it be lost? Threads can be stickied, they can be linked to, just look at Alec's best of the Forums thread. Just because the list is closed to new entries doesn't imply the thread itself being destroyed. Again someone is conflating two different things. The list is a sperate thing from the thread, the list can be closed to new entires and the thread can go on existing, you see how that works? Two different things!
Sure he could, but why should he? He is the creator and maintainer of the thread, it's entirely up to him to continue or not based on whether he thinks it should be continued based on the original conditions. He asked a simple question, should the thread continue now new players no longer have to actually do anything to get the Sag A*, my opinion is no, but multiple people here seem to think he should be adding extra stuff to the list. Basically if people now want to maintain just a straight visitor list with no questions asked that's up to them, but with the number of people who can now just drop in anytime on the back of a FC I don't think it's worth the effort, it would soon become silly with many thousands or even tens of thousands of names.
Very odd elitist attitude displayed in your response I feel, so much so that I felt the need to mention it. Not what I was expecting from you at all Varonica.
Up to the op if he wants to take any of the options I suggest on board, which may allow them to keep the list running in a format they find acceptable.
The coloured name option almost exists already, (for DW).
Not the hardest thing then to implement an honour system to the submission form to state assisted/unassisted.
They then only need to add the coloured entry for those declared as assisted.
Overall depends if op considers it worthwhile...
It's the "visitors list", isn't it!?
So who cares how a visitor arrived?
So who cares how a visitor arrived?
No one wants to make this a "participation trophy". If a new commander makes an unassisted trip to Sag A or BP or anywhere else where some sort of list is maintained, and if he wants his name on that list and can reasonable prove he took the unassisted approach, he should not be excluded from the club...
On the other hand, I would understand, if the creator / maintainer of the list decides to no longer maintain it, simply because the player base is growing, the challenges is diminishing and simply because it is too much to ask from a volunteer...
But if such good forum member decides to maintain the list, I see some good advices here how to make it feasible, provided that we trust other people and we do not undertake these challenges for the laurels, but for our own sense of achievement...
On the other hand, I would understand, if the creator / maintainer of the list decides to no longer maintain it, simply because the player base is growing, the challenges is diminishing and simply because it is too much to ask from a volunteer...
But if such good forum member decides to maintain the list, I see some good advices here how to make it feasible, provided that we trust other people and we do not undertake these challenges for the laurels, but for our own sense of achievement...