Who are the exploration communities "leaders" just now?
- Thread starter GunnerBill
- Start date
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[wades in]
Well, here's the thing. I made it to Sag A* before Carriers, unfortunately, I never kept any of the required info to add me to the list. Thing is, If I went there now, I would take my Carrier, I take it everywhere. I don't do that by sitting on the Carrier and jumping. I use a ship to scout a head then call the Carrier to me. So, no, I don't use the Carrier to get somewhere but it comes with me everywhere. There are going to be these grey areas.
Well, here's the thing. I made it to Sag A* before Carriers, unfortunately, I never kept any of the required info to add me to the list. Thing is, If I went there now, I would take my Carrier, I take it everywhere. I don't do that by sitting on the Carrier and jumping. I use a ship to scout a head then call the Carrier to me. So, no, I don't use the Carrier to get somewhere but it comes with me everywhere. There are going to be these grey areas.
i have visited sag a* in july 3001 according to the list. in a 34 ly jumprange aspE, and it took me "several weeks". i think it was still under the first 300 players from that list or so, and it was a formative experience in my game of elite dangerous. but even back then i was aware, that it was more of touristic achievement, than any kind of challenge. buckyball runs had started, and some people did it in vultures. making an entry on that list was marking down my subjective experience as something important to me.
it got easier over the years. same can be said for triple elite - but even making triple elite on my secondary accout a few months ago, it still felt like something accomplished.
from there - my own experience(s) - my gut feeling would be, anyone who experienced it as a kind of cornerstone in his game of elite should be allowed to add him- or herself to that list. a decision anyone can make for themself.
i do a lot of rl mountaineering. in the alps, you have books at mountaintops where anyone can write their name into, who visited. Messner, an alpinist i love to read, once said: "The rock i jump over on my morning run is for others the same experience, as it was for me climbing the Mount Everest without supplemental oxygen."
for me, the sag a* visitor list is a list of people, who made some experience important enough for them, to sign up for it.
it got easier over the years. same can be said for triple elite - but even making triple elite on my secondary accout a few months ago, it still felt like something accomplished.
from there - my own experience(s) - my gut feeling would be, anyone who experienced it as a kind of cornerstone in his game of elite should be allowed to add him- or herself to that list. a decision anyone can make for themself.
i do a lot of rl mountaineering. in the alps, you have books at mountaintops where anyone can write their name into, who visited. Messner, an alpinist i love to read, once said: "The rock i jump over on my morning run is for others the same experience, as it was for me climbing the Mount Everest without supplemental oxygen."
for me, the sag a* visitor list is a list of people, who made some experience important enough for them, to sign up for it.
It would actually be awesome if these lists become findable in game at their various locations.
Ether way, it was tough work back in those days, I didn't quite reach Beagle point on my first trip out (because I was planning on a 3 hour test flight, before I decided to just keep going a little further to see what is there - repeat until just over a hundred odd LY from Beagle point.
What people forget, is how tough it really was. Not only were jump ranges limited, but no one knew what was out there. There were constant veiled warnings by devs that explorers should be armed, the nav computer was a jump at a fracking time, and even when it did get to (from memory) 100LY, which happened not long after I set off, it was kinda useless once you reached certain locations.
There was no stopover in Colonia for a breather from the black, if you wanted it. It was a long, dark, and lonely trip out.
I see people say "it's not their fault that they were not there, why deny them?". Well, it's not my fault I was born in time to be first to climb Everest, but if I climb it today, no one is going to pay much attention.
Those epic near year long missions can now be done in days with the right ship and a few boxes of pizza and fizzy drinks. I think the new explorers need to create new challenges, new records, new destinations to discover. If that simply means the record for fastest honk and jump of a system, or the most scanned systems in a set time period? So be it. Highest mountain climbed from the lowest reasonable location? sure. Why does it even have to be with a ship?
I feel that Odyssey has the opportunity to give us brand new exploration challenges. Maybe discovering the deepest cave system by foot will be the next list?
I don't have any issue closing those old threads, keep the records, let the new kids create new ones. I'm still only 1/3 of the way back from DW2, and really looking forward to getting back in the cockpit ASAP and selling some data, because I tagged what I thought were some amazingly beautiful places, but hey, at the end, it's just a game, and if someone gets back tot he bubble first, after getting to a place later than myself? Well, so be it.
Z...
Do people consider those that went before engineered frame shift drives a more superior achievement?
What about guardian frame shift drive boosters?
What about neutron stars.?
What about jumponium?
What about the route plotters advancements over time?
All these things changed the methodology of going to Sag A.
Are fleet carriers really any different from the above?
For some they will be, for some they will not.
What it will come down to, is how the op sees it, as he is the one doing the list.
Is it diminished in his eyes by the above in his opinion? That is the answer as to whether it will continue.
What about guardian frame shift drive boosters?
What about neutron stars.?
What about jumponium?
What about the route plotters advancements over time?
All these things changed the methodology of going to Sag A.
Are fleet carriers really any different from the above?
For some they will be, for some they will not.
What it will come down to, is how the op sees it, as he is the one doing the list.
Is it diminished in his eyes by the above in his opinion? That is the answer as to whether it will continue.
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It'll be lost because a lot of great events and fantastic threads have already been lost after being closed. I'd really like to re-read about Zulu Romeo's adventure to Sag-A*, or Kamzel's thread where he documented his crossing of the Abyss and discovery of Beagle Point. Or Katejina's thread about the first circumnavigation. But they've all gone because at one time or another those threads were eventually locked or lost when frontier changed the forums over to this new host, and all we have now is broken links. I still remember reading about those events, especially Distant Suns, the pre-cursor to Distant Worlds. Reading and watching those is what brought me to elite in the first place, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
As for asking certain threads be stickied, thats a big ask. The mods don't like too many stickies from what I've heard and I think this sub-forum is at its maximum anyway.
Locked or closed threads vanish off here in no time, and the same will happen to the Sag-A thread. The 65K LY club thread has already long gone off here and is only bumped once in a while when someone finds it. Eventually that one will be lost to the forum depths and be forgotten about.
What's really sad it that Frontier themselves have done nothing to preserve the memory of any of the big achievements. There is no mention of Zulu's trip to Sag-A* in the Codex. No mention of Beagle Point's discovery either, except for a brief write up in the system description itself, which can only be read if you've actually been there. No mention of any of the history of exploration in the Codex at all. Other games, like WoW for example, prided themselves in writing player achievements into their official lore. Apart for the memorials and a very few systems, Frontier hasn't embraced the rich history its players have created over the years.
I was lucky enough to submit the name 'Colonia' to the GMP for the nebulae there (with help from the GMP), and eventually that became adopted by FDev for the whole region. But even CMDR Cly who discovered Jaques there has never had a mention in the Codex, and that was a massive bit of game lore that should have been acknowledge in the game Codex.
I've always seen the exploration community here as a "do-ocracy" (similar to a meritocracy, but rather "an organizational structure in which individuals choose roles and tasks for themselves and execute them" [urban dictionary]). Basically if you have an idea for something, such as a visitor's list, you can make it yourself, or present the idea and hope that someone else will do it. The downside of course is that if no one wants to take on such a role, then that idea doesn't get put to use. And if someone chooses to step aside, the project ends if no one else takes it over.
Mind your words, I could care less whether there's visitor list to Sag A*, the OP asked a simple question, and yet we even had a person say the list must be maintained because it belongs to the community, that's rubbish and it's frankly getting annoying, and others suggesting the OP should do more work on the list, none of these were in the OP's question. In fact the OP actually stated;
So you are basically all saying he should do the exact thing he has clearly and vehemently stated he has no interest in doing, I can see why people lose interest in this sort of stuff eventually. He's not going to keep a general visitors list to Sag A* so why are you all going on about it?
I would point out that, with a bit of effort, most of those things can be found through Google, but, contradictory soul that I sometimes am, I would also agree with @Diostar50 that you need to know to look for such things in the first place.
Google cannot tell you what to look for, it can only help you find what you ask of it.
Google cannot tell you what to look for, it can only help you find what you ask of it.
The thing is it's a visitors list. I don't think it was ever specified as you had to have travelled all the way yourself. But I think in it's fair to say that when the list was created that was assumed.
I know it seems like I am contradicting myself! But that's a sign of the quandary I face.
Seems to me, that you have better idea what the OP wanted, than the OP himself...
You are drawing your own conclusions, other people do the same. What OP said can be read in many different ways. Where does anyone said, that he MUST maintain the list, because it belongs to the community? Chrystoph said, that the list, in a sense, belongs to the community. Yes, but where does he say, that the OP must maintain it? There are other lists, that were abandoned and later maintained by someone else...
I believe (I might be wrong), the OP just wanted to start a discussion as to how to proceed, whether to change the rules or whether to take any other action... I do not see any mention of him wanting to close the list, as you vehemently propose...
Part of the original set of questions included the idea of locking the thread, which is what I meant in terms of the thread belonging to the community.
If @GunnerBill doesn't want to maintain the thread because he has become disenchanted, that is certainly his right. All that requires is a statement to the effect that the thread is no longer maintained, but has been left unlocked for historical purposes.
That way, people can still append themselves to the thread, even if the "list" is not being updated.
All these things don't in anyway equate to docking with a FC then undocking 20,000 ly later.
But take jumponium for example, arguably more effort and time goes into finding that than could be saved by not bothering!
You're right and it's the history of this thread, I'm the 4th custodian, which makes me reluctant to close it. Zulu may not be remembered in Canon but he's in this list, entry #1
I think you have every right to do with the list whatever you decide, and if that decision is to close it, as long as you offer a chance to maintain it to someone else, no one can say a word...
I remember when I run a community project 10 years ago (for 3 years, daily on the forum, daily organizing) on a different forum, that resulted in a collective design, manufacture and eventually purchase of something unique, it was a great weight on my shoulders and the responsibility not to let down roughly 150 people involved in the project was immense...
There are no money involved in this list. If you decide not to maintain it anymore, only your conscience should tell you what to do with it... If you are looking for ideas, there are some in this thread...
as for the question of travelling by FC...
i went to colonia 3 times, and the first 2 times it was an experience. the 3rd time i catched a hitch for the account moving out, and made no experience (still happy to have an acoount out there).
i think taking a FC to sag a* can provide an experience or not. most probably it will for the owner, but it could as well for traveller which is more involved than me going to colonia.
i wouldn't judge from the outside.
i went to colonia 3 times, and the first 2 times it was an experience. the 3rd time i catched a hitch for the account moving out, and made no experience (still happy to have an acoount out there).
i think taking a FC to sag a* can provide an experience or not. most probably it will for the owner, but it could as well for traveller which is more involved than me going to colonia.
i wouldn't judge from the outside.
Seems to me the OP has been quite clear in his feelings and desires in the thread, I don't know why it has managed to wander so far from the question. Someone wants to keep a list of everyone who visits Sag A* that's up to them. The original list was created for a particular purpose that is now no longer relevant so the OP is looking for advice on what to do with it.
Thinking outside the box.
Why not petition for a cg to create a tourist beacon in sag a, featuring a list of the first x number of pilots to visit (x could be one, ten, one hundred, whatever is felt appropiate).
Then the history is preserved, and an event to travel out there is also created...(even by carrier) ..
Why not petition for a cg to create a tourist beacon in sag a, featuring a list of the first x number of pilots to visit (x could be one, ten, one hundred, whatever is felt appropiate).
Then the history is preserved, and an event to travel out there is also created...(even by carrier) ..
Firstly thanks for all your input into this, I guess I found the "leaders" I needed!
Secondly the decision...
Secondly the decision...
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Maybe because you started to post what you think the OP is feeling!?
Thanks for deciding to keep it.
Piece of history that is.
(My XB account is there on the list , #2476 - and made it there about 4 months after starting the game, SagA* visit being complementary to Explorer's Anchorage CG followed by Colonia Engineers unlock. My Steam account took a similar trip bit more than a year ago, my Epic account is not so keen - and the events unfolding in the bubble are not helping either
)
Piece of history that is.
(My XB account is there on the list , #2476 - and made it there about 4 months after starting the game, SagA* visit being complementary to Explorer's Anchorage CG followed by Colonia Engineers unlock. My Steam account took a similar trip bit more than a year ago, my Epic account is not so keen - and the events unfolding in the bubble are not helping either
)