Have you ever participated in a CG that failed to provide any reward whatsoever?
COMPLETED CG Fight for the Neo-Marlinist Order of Mudhrid against the Empire (Combat)
- Thread starter Kietrax
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No. But I've never participated in one which didn't give the promised result.
Exactly. So you really can't say what sort of effect it would have, can you?
Heck, for some people, it might not have any effect. Loads of people play this game with no expectation of reward in any tangible manner, and I'm not disrespecting that.
But you also need to recognize that many players play for the reward, and those players must be taken into consideration, especially since they effect the game as a whole, even - at least tangentially - the people who aren't as concerned with rewards. Take the mining craze, for example; the game was practically humming with players during that time. Was that good for the game? It's debatable, but you can't deny that the game definitely had a substantial dropoff in player count when that was removed.
But even further, this is a case where a few players getting a module doesn't have the same economically-destabilizing effects as mining did. There are very few downsides to giving them their reward, while all the alternatives do have potential downsides.
IF you give nobody a reward, SOME players won't bother participating in the future.
IF, as some propose, you give EVERYONE the reward, again, many players won't bother participating beyond a token effort in the future.
There's a fine balance to be struck here. You need to achieve a point where players are maximally encouraged to engage with the narrative and compete with one another.
But punishing individual players for lack of interest from the community as a whole only causes problems in the long term.
OK...
The idea you get rewarded if the community says so. The community spoke here and FDev has ignored the result. That's irritating.
No, but I was looking forward to it. The text said you get nothing for not reaching T1. Even if I'd contributed (I would have without Alpha) I'd have been happy with no reward.
Players get planty of reward for just playing: credits/ARX.
I can't confirm nor deny that as I don't have the figures. I don't believe anyone outside of FDev does either.
Merely the changing of goalposts after the fact. I didn't like it when they did it before (the first issue of the "special" FSD) and I don't like it now.
So make it an INDIVIDUAL goal, not a COMMUNITY goal.
The idea you get rewarded if the community says so. The community spoke here and FDev has ignored the result. That's irritating.
Only it WAS an individual goal; getting into the top 10% was absolutely individual. The community goal, and reward, was beating the empire. Community Goals always have both. Up until now, they have not been clearly differentiated.
My point is that this design structure was fundamentally flawed. It's never been so prominently displayed before, because they've never placed the goalposts so inaccurately before, but that doesn't mean it should be ignored and allowed to persist, it only means that now it's been highlighted, it should be corrected, both retroactively and in the future.
Your interest in them losing completely is purely academic, and should by no means have anywhere near as much weight as the actual investment of time and effort of the players who participated.
This. FDev seemed to have made the tiers as if the CG were for bounty hunting. This made reaching Tier 1 a near impossibility for the less popular choice and I highly doubt that was their intention. Perhaps, one day, they will let us know.
I don't think we're going anywhere helpful with this. As such I won't pose any further questions, just state my observations and leave it at that.
Community goals have ALWAYS - in my experience thus far required T1 to be successful. I'm fairly certain that the (to my knowledge) only other CG that didn't reach T1 got no reward - although I'm not certain on that and am happy to be corrected. I'm sure someone will chime in if that's incorrect.
Up until (and including) now it was always very clear in the CG text. They have just chosen to ignore it.
What they've done is they've now made future CGs unclear. "Will they give rewards even when they say they won't?" "They did for the NMLA CG..."
Nope. It's a community goal. Hence the name. One relies on the community to get anything other than credits - well, up until now anyway...
Community goals have ALWAYS - in my experience thus far required T1 to be successful. I'm fairly certain that the (to my knowledge) only other CG that didn't reach T1 got no reward - although I'm not certain on that and am happy to be corrected. I'm sure someone will chime in if that's incorrect.
Up until (and including) now it was always very clear in the CG text. They have just chosen to ignore it.
Perhaps, but that's like saying the lottery is flawed after the draw. You know the rules, you just think it's flawed if you don't win.
The goalposts have (mostly) always been clearly stated and in a fixed and known place. They've chosen to ignore them this time for unknown reasons. I don't see which part of "If Tier 1 is reached" is unclear.
What they've done is they've now made future CGs unclear. "Will they give rewards even when they say they won't?" "They did for the NMLA CG..."
Again - there were criteria that weren't met and rewards were given regardless. You may feel entitled to a reward because you spent some time in game. Well, good for you, you lucked out this time.
Empire backers have so far got 2 rail guns as the other version has not been recalled...
Source: https://twitter.com/EliteDangerous/status/1381633669719326726
Source: https://twitter.com/EliteDangerous/status/1381633669719326726
Nonsense. The community goal is achieving the change in the galaxy. The individual rewards are just that; Individual rewards.
Again, nonsense. It's more akin to the lottery getting a bug and instead of giving out the cash, it lights it on fire.
Clearly old text that was simply rolled over for future use without due consideration. The fact is, such a limitation on this type of CG was clearly a bad thing from any objective standpoint. There are other CGs where that is not the case.
The ONLY possible change in player behavior is that now players will keep on trying even if failure seems certain. This is only a good thing, so there's literally no downsides.
It sounds like you're a bit salty.
Again, from any objective standpoint, this decision could only be described as a good one, both in the short and long term. Worst case scenario, players play more.
Sounds like a darn good deal to me, for both me and fdev alike.
What a delicious disaster
I'm sure that getting this second rail gun bothers players receiving it just as much as they were bothered by players receiving the enzyme rack.
Fortunately, this offers an excellent opportunity! To all these players who have complained, I call on you to prove your dedication to your cause, and post a screenshot of you putting your unfairly acquired module on a ship, and selling that ship. After all, how can you expect others to stand up for your ideals if you won't even do so yourself?
Prove your Zeal! Highlight the hypocrisy of f Dev!
Or keep the module, and highlight only your own hypocrisy. It's your choice!
Fortunately, this offers an excellent opportunity! To all these players who have complained, I call on you to prove your dedication to your cause, and post a screenshot of you putting your unfairly acquired module on a ship, and selling that ship. After all, how can you expect others to stand up for your ideals if you won't even do so yourself?
Prove your Zeal! Highlight the hypocrisy of f Dev!
Or keep the module, and highlight only your own hypocrisy. It's your choice!
Gorgeus... so my disdaine for the Empire costed me twice!
Navigating to Outfitting > Stored Modules > Modifications lists all the changes nicely. Below is a picture from the double engineered Enzyme Missile Rack with High Capacity and increased Damage.
Note that Standard Enzyme Missiles are dumbfire missiles (launched from a fixed launcher) that do an initial damage of 5 and if shields are down inflict a decaying damage over time debuff to hull. I am not sure if the Damage Per Second statistic below applies to this debuff.
Note that Standard Enzyme Missiles are dumbfire missiles (launched from a fixed launcher) that do an initial damage of 5 and if shields are down inflict a decaying damage over time debuff to hull. I am not sure if the Damage Per Second statistic below applies to this debuff.
Tbh I don't really care if they are building nukes (as long as I can buy them) or building orphanages for all the orphans we are causing by killing people in CZ and BH.
As long as the reward is appealing, I will participate. Token effort for the 75%, or more if more/better rewards are offered for the higher %.
But I disagree on giving the rewards to everyone participating. Why should someone who cashed in 100Cr worth of vouchers (or 1t of cargo) get a/same reward as someone who made proper effort to get into the 75%?
If they want full participation, add more rewards per tier or level or participation. 75% get reward A, 50% get A and B, 25% get A, B and C. top 10% get A, B, C and D.
Getting 75% isn't hard, easily done, happy to cash in on those.
Agreed, the ideal way to do it is many rewards, but unfortunately, it's difficult to come up with that many meaningful rewards. You'll tend towards the equivalent of Overwatch's sprays, which are pretty much meaningless.
Even the modules are a nice touch tbh.
The rails for example.
75% gets 1
50% gets 2
25% gets 3
10% gets 4
Incentive right there and at no effort.
To be honest, I don't really WANT four of those modules per player running around. Just one at least has the advantage that it'll typically go on one specialized build. Four means they're virtually everywhere.
Since those double mod weapon modules are all specially designed, some of them are not totally equal to 2 mod stats combined.
For example the current railgun has a 1.3s charge time rather than a normal 1.2s, which could be considered an intended slight nerf, same with the enzyme missle rack's high capacity having a +75% clip and +25% ammo max, where a normal high capacity would be +100% on both.
So it could be something done like for the railgun:
75% gets 1.4s charge time
50% gets 1.35s
25% gets 1.3s
10% gets 1.25s
top 10 gets 1.2s
and perhaps a year later where these special modules are thrown into tech broker so all could get, they could implement the 1.4s version, so other versions become exclusive for those CG participants.
There will always be new players arguing that they don't get a chance to get the module due to not knowing this game yet in their life, wanting another new CG giving them a chance to get the module, though you could say it's a privilege given to players that joined the game earlier or you could think of it as an example:
There's a presidential election once every 4 years(For places that have presidential elections), you're only allowed to vote if you're an adult and a citizen, so some might be underage or not a citizen when the election occurred, but 4 years later they might become adult or citizen, then they get to vote on the next election.
So by the example, players that joined earlier gets to participate earlier, and for the next event, maybe the new players joins in and could participate, but whether the reward being the same candidate or not, is for FDev to make.
For online games, there are developers that make the event reward reoccur once in a while, so new comers don't miss out, and there are types where every event is exclusive and once you miss out, it will become legacy, and both choices have their pros and cons, and such is life, as people sometimes wish they were born earlier, and we all know nothing could be done about that apart from fussing.
As for the definition of "Community Goal", since it has the word "Community" in it, we're suppose to be doing something for the great majority, and by the definition it's likely to be nonprofit, but reality check nonprofit movements are always a minority, majority are moved by money or reward, so FDev's has cut the rewards into personal participating rewards and global rewards, maybe there were quite a lot of global rewards back then? As a new joiner, I haven't seen any global rewards since I joined(Only 3~4 months though, I'm noob), and by scrolling through inara CG records, those that requires CMDR to give out personal assets, such as material or cartographies are likely to be less participated, those that requires working effort are more participated, such as bounty, CZ, cargo delivery.
After all my detouring comments lol, I think it's easier to conclude that a communism result is not appeasing, and by communism I mean the one by ideology, not the practiced weird ones we see in life.
So in order to boost motivation on CG, difference still has to be made, and how big or small the difference, is something to be measured, I could say it's been working alright currently, as most "valid" participants gets the same thing no matter how much more or less you participate, though some time not be eased with being so dedicated with participation yet receiving rewards the same with someone just dipping in, but that's their choice to make when the rules are set.
So yeah, how are the rules set, and it is really disappointing to some when the results turn out different with what was assumed from reading how the rules were set, it's like seeing a government or a law judge breaking or manipulating law right on the court, it's a disgusting injustice in real life, and we're being shoved with this fact even when playing online games, so yeah...would be more thankful if FDev's can mean things words by words, so words can actually mean what they mean.
For example the current railgun has a 1.3s charge time rather than a normal 1.2s, which could be considered an intended slight nerf, same with the enzyme missle rack's high capacity having a +75% clip and +25% ammo max, where a normal high capacity would be +100% on both.
So it could be something done like for the railgun:
75% gets 1.4s charge time
50% gets 1.35s
25% gets 1.3s
10% gets 1.25s
top 10 gets 1.2s
and perhaps a year later where these special modules are thrown into tech broker so all could get, they could implement the 1.4s version, so other versions become exclusive for those CG participants.
There will always be new players arguing that they don't get a chance to get the module due to not knowing this game yet in their life, wanting another new CG giving them a chance to get the module, though you could say it's a privilege given to players that joined the game earlier or you could think of it as an example:
There's a presidential election once every 4 years(For places that have presidential elections), you're only allowed to vote if you're an adult and a citizen, so some might be underage or not a citizen when the election occurred, but 4 years later they might become adult or citizen, then they get to vote on the next election.
So by the example, players that joined earlier gets to participate earlier, and for the next event, maybe the new players joins in and could participate, but whether the reward being the same candidate or not, is for FDev to make.
For online games, there are developers that make the event reward reoccur once in a while, so new comers don't miss out, and there are types where every event is exclusive and once you miss out, it will become legacy, and both choices have their pros and cons, and such is life, as people sometimes wish they were born earlier, and we all know nothing could be done about that apart from fussing.
As for the definition of "Community Goal", since it has the word "Community" in it, we're suppose to be doing something for the great majority, and by the definition it's likely to be nonprofit, but reality check nonprofit movements are always a minority, majority are moved by money or reward, so FDev's has cut the rewards into personal participating rewards and global rewards, maybe there were quite a lot of global rewards back then? As a new joiner, I haven't seen any global rewards since I joined(Only 3~4 months though, I'm noob), and by scrolling through inara CG records, those that requires CMDR to give out personal assets, such as material or cartographies are likely to be less participated, those that requires working effort are more participated, such as bounty, CZ, cargo delivery.
After all my detouring comments lol, I think it's easier to conclude that a communism result is not appeasing, and by communism I mean the one by ideology, not the practiced weird ones we see in life.
So in order to boost motivation on CG, difference still has to be made, and how big or small the difference, is something to be measured, I could say it's been working alright currently, as most "valid" participants gets the same thing no matter how much more or less you participate, though some time not be eased with being so dedicated with participation yet receiving rewards the same with someone just dipping in, but that's their choice to make when the rules are set.
So yeah, how are the rules set, and it is really disappointing to some when the results turn out different with what was assumed from reading how the rules were set, it's like seeing a government or a law judge breaking or manipulating law right on the court, it's a disgusting injustice in real life, and we're being shoved with this fact even when playing online games, so yeah...would be more thankful if FDev's can mean things words by words, so words can actually mean what they mean.
The moment something like this happens, I'll unistall the game and many others will do the the same.
And if that doesn't do the trick, from streamer reactions it looks like the new xeno biology will.
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