Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[MTBFritz]

What value does any of this add?

development time....which directly translates into continous wages and income. i got used to the sheeple not storming the barricades over this by now, I m just shocked at the level of abuse they are willing to endure (28 weeks for AI housing....)

Now go read all of MBTFritz's posts

Or the previous versions of this thread

How do you tell if someone with a track record for lying is telling the truth?

Faith.

But calling somebody "one of the faithful" is perceived as a bash and the seperation line between faith and fanaticism can be pretty thin these days. We all have faith in things same as we all eat the same stuff to keep going. But overdo it in a single aspect and you experience negative side effects. Balance is important but balance doesnt equal neutrality. You can have pretty established views and opinions on something and still be balanced

edit: also my response to the truth thing is rather "how can somebody who has a track record of lying continue to have success with the same strategy?". When people tell me something I dont know I can shrug it off, demand clarification/evidence or assign a probability all of which will shape my view on the thing I m being told. That view will also affect my future behavior or response to said topic.

Now in CiGs case I lived through a lot of years with lying and miscommunication, have watched CiG walk back on their words or blame others for their own shortcomings. These are facts for me. I dont need somebody telling me "CiG didnt lie back than" when I know thats exactly what happened. I simply dont believe a single thing CiG says anymore, not the dates they announce nor the content they promise. So...pretty "set" in my view and its definitely one-sided too. Would CiG deliver on their promises or stick to their timelines I wouldnt disbelieve it tho. I would accept it and if this would keep up I would even change my tune about CiG. Thats where I see myself as "balanced"....all I need is evidence or facts for that to actually happening.

Disregarding facts and past events or justifying or changing them on behalf of "fitting my narrative" in the face of opposing evidence is NOT faith tho. Its the other thing.

Faith by definition is based on "not knowing". You stop depending on faith when you try to figure out things. Which is what this thread is trying to do IMO....

 

[Viajero]

I don't have a problem with the model CIG use bring in its money, its the only way to do it in this circumstance.

Even if it is clear they are so incompetent at administering and using those funds that they waste it all?

 

[MTBFritz]

Even if it is clear they are so incompetent at administering and using those funds that they waste it all?

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

I don't think they are out to scam anyone, as in not deliver on a product. I do believe they will say whatever it takes, including telling outright lies, to keep the funding going.

Surely, “telling outright lies to keep the funding going” is the very definition of a scam.

If they are not lies, that they really didn't know, then its just as bad, it implies absoloute incompetence.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity ? I would say that Hanlon’s Razor is certainly useful here, but it doesn’t paint the whole picture.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

I don't have a problem with the model CIG use bring in its money, its the only way to do it in this circumstance.

You don’t... really believe that... Do you?

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

View attachment 222303

Hehe, my avatar

 

[Agony_Aunt]

By not tarring everyone one with the same brush, my default assumption is someone is telling the truth unless proved otherwise, i have no reason to believe the games developers (that's not Chris) are scammers.

Sure, and i'm not suggesting you do.

But where did this information come from they had moved it? Who said that that was the official party line?

Everything devolves from Chris. People who tell Chris no don't work for Chris for long (he has said as much).

I don't know who said that it had been moved to Nyx, i presume a community manager. Where did they get that info from? Presumably someone in management.

Those in upper management are complicit in the lies being told, because they must know the real situation. The fact that none of them have squealed to the press proves this. And when someone does talk to the press, anonymously, for fear of losing their job, then backers and CIG will dismiss it, because its anonymous. Few people have gone public about life inside CIG. David Jennison was one of the few, and his insight into conditions inside CIG was rather interesting.

If you are not aware of the Jennison post, its worth reading.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3lyfb1

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3lyfb1/david_jennison_former_lead_character_artist_in/


My main point isn't specifically about whether Nyx now has Delemar or not. The main point i'm making is don't believe ANYTHING CIG say until you see it with your own eyes. Ok, you don't have to assume they are lying (although by this point, i do... its like the old joke, how do you know when a politician is lying? His lips are moving), but don't assume anything they say is truth either.

Anyway, that's my advice to you. Take it or leave it

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I don't have a problem with the model CIG use bring in its money, its the only way to do it in this circumstance.

No its not, unless the circumstance you are referring to is being under the control of someone who doesn't have a clue about how to deliver on a project and control scope creep.

They totally could have focused on delivering a core game first with limited scope, you know, perhaps the game they said they could deliver for 5.5 million, the game they said they had been working on for over a year and had already done loads of work on. That game. Sure, they were never going to deliver that game for 5.5 million in 2-3 years. They were totally talking out of their rear ends even back then. But perhaps they could have delivered it within 10 years and for a few hundred million, and by now have a released product, and from there stopped selling dreams and instead sold a released product, and then gone on to making expansions/DLCs to build on the content. Hell, they could have done the expansions by crowdfunding as well, but i think the argument there would be if they have a sucessfully released product they should then be funding the game themselves, of course, with the sale of cosmetics probably to support things. You know, like actual real development companies do.

And when you say you don't have a problem with the model they are using, you mean you are fine with their use of artificial scarcity? FOMO? And other unsavoury marketing techniques? You're fine with that?

Because CIG were meant to be different. They were not meant to be like the evil and greedy publishers. Yet, from what we see, they are doing the exact same things the evil and greedy publishers do.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Have I mentioned I can make the game CIG say they are making for only 50M USD?

Can i buy an Idris from you?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Wouldn´t it be more prudent and proper from a good steward of backer funds to just fire/release the full time equivalent resources dedicated to this nonsense, and a few others, and reserve those funds in case you need more time than planned (or resources) to tackle some of the more critical issues in the development?

CR won't fire himself. He's the one responsible for it at the end of the day.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Surely, “telling outright lies to keep the funding going” is the very definition of a scam.

Its a tricky one, because i think most people screaming scam are implying CR doesn't care about delivering on SC, that he's not trying to deliver it. He's just putting up an appearance of it while raking in the cash.

So yeah, lying to the people giving you money achieve your goals can definitely be called a scam, but i believe CR at least (if not Ortwin, Sandi, etc) really does want to make the game and I think he actually thinks he can still deliver on everything he promised. If only he had a little more time and money, he just needs a little more faith from backers.

Which is probably the same mentality that Billy McFarland had even while he was committing wire fraud to try and ensure Fyre Festival happened.

 

[Xink]

Can i buy an Idris from you?

You can pre-buy a rendering of what an Idris will look like for the low low price of $1500. Limited stock, you don't want to miss out.

Available only during fund raising for the game, this Idris will come with a lifetime warranty direct from the manufacturer and comes complete with auto-cleaning toilets. Now isn't that a deal.

 

[VR Golgot]

I don't have a problem with the model CIG use bring in its money, its the only way to do it in this circumstance.

You don't have a problem with this type of thing?

• Selling the likes of the Javelin ($3,000) for more than 6 years, even though its advertised features may never be realisable? (IE a giant interior housing a maximum of 80 crew, with swappable modules for science and cartography gameplay etc, and 15 turrets, forming a 350m long pilotable ship usable for high player count PVP).
• Introducing other titanic ships downstream which entail ongoing scope creep for the devs? (The $850 base-building Pioneer in 2017, the AI-driven mobile mines and drones of the $725 Nautilus in 2019 etc etc).
• The use of sales tools such as artificial scarcity (limited sale numbers, LTI rarity), firewalled access to deals (reliant on money spent and/or subscriptions taken out), MLM via referrals, and a 'gamified' pre-purchase system?
• The P2W aspects implicit in the current macro-purchases and the proposed credit purchases after launch?

You're fine with them? Or you think they are a bit problematic, but will all prove OK if CIG eventually delivers on the features and content? 10 years after Kickstarter or so

 

[MTBFritz]

Its a tricky one, because i think most people screaming scam are implying CR doesn't care about delivering on SC, that he's not trying to deliver it. He's just putting up an appearance of it while raking in the cash.

You know...I dont like your wording but I cant deny the factuality of what you say so.... /birdflip

 

[MTBFritz]

You can pre-buy a rendering of what an Idris will look like for the low low price of $1500. Limited stock, you don't want to miss out.

Available only during fund raising for the game, this Idris will come with a lifetime warranty direct from the manufacturer and comes complete with auto-cleaning toilets. Now isn't that a deal.

How many toilets errrr I mean heads will an Idris have you recon? Is it a made-up number or does CiG actually spend manhour and -power on coming up with a realistic estimate based on scientific knowledge and research? Will the number of heads have any impact on the performance of the game considering CiG promises real simulated physics and connected gameplay like janitor duties and the like?

Just a simple example at how wishful thinking can result in scope creep and a runaway-project but never forget....thats what CiG actually promises and we know is impossible for them.

 

[Intrepid3D]

Have I mentioned I can make the game CIG say they are making for only 50M USD?

Assuming the average staff salery is $30,000. X 600 Staff, that's 18,000,000 a year alone, add to that running costs of 4 or 5 studios, equipment, paying actors, it all adds up.

Grand Theft Auto: $265m
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2: $300m
Cyberpunk 2077: $330m
Star Citizen: $410m to date
Red Dead II: $550m

Or:
Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides: $380m

You think you can do this for $50m? i don't.

 

[StuartGT]

Have I mentioned I can make the game CIG say they are making for only 50M USD?

Assuming the average staff sallery is $30,000. X 600 Staff, that's 18,000,000 a year alone, add to that running costs of 4 or 5 studios, equipment, paying actors, it all adds up.

Grand Theft Auto: $265m
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2: $300m
Cyberpunk 2077: $330m
Star Citizen: $410m to date
Red Dead II: $550m

Or:
Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides: $380m

You think you can do this for $50m? i don't.

Oh boy. Let's crack on...

• Grand Theft Auto: $265m $137m
• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2: $300m $50m
• Cyberpunk 2077: $330m $121m+
• Star Citizen: $410m ~$350m to date (assuming ~$60m spent on marketing so far)
• Red Dead II: $550m $240m

List of most expensive video games to develop - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You really should at least use google.

 

[ECity]

 

[sovapid]

"to do with as they please"?????

So I can pad ram all I want as long as I am flying this Aurora????

THANK YOU CHRIS!

 

[Xink]

Assuming the average staff salery is $30,000. X 600 Staff, that's 18,000,000 a year alone, add to that running costs of 4 or 5 studios, equipment, paying actors, it all adds up.

Grand Theft Auto: $265m
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2: $300m
Cyberpunk 2077: $330m
Star Citizen: $410m to date
Red Dead II: $550m

Or:
Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides: $380m

You think you can do this for $50m? i don't.

Whoooosh.

Should I point out that CIG only asked for 2M initially?