Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Its damned near impossible to separate out all the component costs of what it took to get SC to where it is now, with that Rock Star spent $200 to $300 Million on marketing.

Unless you know exactly how much CIG spent on marketing you don't know what the raw development cost is.

Lets do some quick maths, CIG have been a fully fledged developer for about 6 years, during that time they have had 500 to now 700 devs, so 600 average, average salery $30,000, $18m a year, X 6 years = $108m just on staff wages.

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Well, if you believe CIG, as apparently you do, at least 350 million has gone towards development.

Although what they class as going drectly to the game's development means might not match what others think. It certainly paid for all those hollywood actors to come in and do mocap and voice acting. Do they consider money spent on marketing as going directly to the game's development? One would assume not.... but... where do they get the marketing money from then, which runs to at least a few hundred thousand per year IIRC. Subscriptions? That would be funny. Subscriptions paying for the game to be marketed, although, we "know" that they do, because CIG actually said subscriptions pay for things like their videos, which while some backers think they are there to show how wonderfully open CIG are, i'm more cynical and think they are there to get people to spend more and rope in new backers.

Then of course, there are their "gifts" to faithful backers. Top of the line PCs they gave away to prominent streamers. Who paid for those?

We also get an idea from CIG's financials they burn through around 50 million per year at the moment (with current staffing)... maybe higher (someone want to correct me on this?).

Therefore the clear answer is Xink knows how to deliver SC for a fraction of what it takes CR!
 
SQ42 was coming the same year..... and the year after. Riiiiiiiiight!

Yet you bought an MSR recently (for around $260). So you can’t be that concerned by jump gates having missed their delivery deadline by well over three years and counting. Or SQ42 missing every single release date it’s had since 2014...

Some would see those things as signs of serious developmental dysfunction.

But at least the ships work eh?

(Aside from the smuggling gameplay. And the scanning room. And the server farm... Look the wings work right? ;))
 
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With the many things said in the latest posts, can we all agree on Roberts' Razor, a new one that's simultaneously Hanlon's and its contrary. That even perfectly fits with the Schrodinger mess.
Yeah, and with all the quantum in their work it is easily understandable that most of the work is in some superpositioned state where all the pipelines and planets were stowed so it wouldn#t burst and spill all over the place.
 
That makes my total over $300m to date, that's without paid actor costs, outsourcing for music, which they do, equipment, studio running costs.....

Making a game like this is expensive.

Indeed. Maybe CIG have a few tens of millions in the bank in reserve.

It leads on to the question of how much more money CIG need to take from backers (or investors) before they can release a product.... or since CIG like to handwave "what is release anyway?" and "what do you mean 1.0? We have 3.0 coming out soon!" let me say releasable product. One they can say to the public, its ready to play and we don't need you to buy spaceships for real money anymore.

This is a really important question for backers and CIG.

What is needed for release?

Well, for SQ42 that is clear, at least Chapter 1 in a good working condition with a few tens of hours of quality gameplay (if not, it will tank and damage faith in SC... although i'm sure the faithful will say "Well, i didn't back for SQ42, i'm only interested in SC so it doesn't matter if SQ42 is rubbish")

For SC its a trickier question. Stability of game and servers of course. More game loops is pretty much required. More systems. All of that's going to take some time.

But even then, that's not really all, because CIG sold a lot of things to backers on the understanding those things would be in on launch. Especially the systems, all 110 of them.

Maybe you recall the upset that was generated when CIG dared to suggest that there would only be 5-7 systems available on launch? That was a few years ago. They had to walk back on that one quickly and say what they actually meant was 5-7 systems when most of the core elements are ready, but of course they till will add all systems by launch.

I wonder what the sentiment would be these days if CIG said the same again? How far are the faithful willing to bargain themselves down regarding the released product?

And as i've said on many occasions before, whatever they do call a release, they it will be measured against claims made, promises, budget, and time.

Considering CIG to date have created an alpha that is still a long way off what it needs for release and its taken more time and money that just about every other quality game out there, much more time and money, its going to be hard to convince the wider public that the time and money spent were worth it.

How much more time and money do CIG need?

Another 2-3 years? SC has always been 2-3 years away from release... maybe 5-10 is more realistic?

Current burn rate of 50 million per year? And they are still growing and taking on more contractors via Turbulent? Oh, and renting out an impressive building in Germany? And server meshing... if they do it, will increase server costs. 60-70 million next year?

Maybe they still need another 400-500 million to get out of alpha.

The world's first almost billion dollar alpha.
 
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A game like what? Making the game Roberts has promised would be insanely, prohibitively expensive, even it were possible. What they've dribbled out to date, on the other hand, in no way reflects the absurd amount of money they've burnt in the process.

Apart from the cost a game like this would require a level of skill and competence/capability that CiG as a whole hasnt demonstrated in the last 10 years. Thats not even naysaying......Star Citizen is brutally behind its own timeline and "refactoring" in SC basically means moving the goalpost to stay current. And while the dream becomes grander and more impressive by the week the actual realiy is stuck on 2016 and whatever nice shiny the designers can push out without tanking the server.
 
I remeber not too long ago someone linking a review of actual developer costs to a company, which goes way beyond the actual salary, including social charges and overhead etc. I remember the bottom line was actually more around 100,000 on average for the total costs per individual for a company, per year.

Does anyone have that link?

Yeah there’s more than just wage involved. The rule of thumb seems to be $120k pa per dev in the US ([1],[2],[3]).
 
19:07 GMT now and there's just been an update to the 3.13 PTU... according to test chat announcements, they've no idea how long the live patch will take to deploy so the 18:30 UTC number for a live release is just bollox.

[2021-04-22 Updates]
1625 UTC - Initial notice, Live Service Maintenance begins 1830 UTC with servers offline at 1855 UTC.
1830 UTC - Maintenance Window Begins, Servers Offline at 1855 UTC.
 
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whatever nice shiny the designers can push out without tanking the server.

You missed the RoadMap Windup this week then? Its not shiny its beds, single beds, bunk beds, beds with privacy shields in this iteration so more beds to come with sheets, which unless satin wont be shiny, and NPCs sleeping so not moving so no server overload. And to do all that they only had to remove 5 or 6 ships from the roadmap.

Anybody got the latest funding tracker? The multi coloured monthly one showing record investment year after year not the stock market tracker one, just wondering how its comparing or matching up with last year. I cant find it online so presume its just by email or something.
 
But their total funding is... oh my. I hope they didn't have to take out a loan or sell part of the company to get bridge financing to cover lifestyle expenses overhead costs.

Well, he did manage to convince someone to buy a 14% stake in his JPG factory for a cool 43 million right?

He is still majority shareholder? How much does he still hold? 50%? Can he get 153 million for that 50%?

So all he needs to do is sell his shares back to CIG for the same amount other investors will buy them for, and then he can ride off into the sunset and plan his kickstarter for Star Citizen 2: The Search for More Money.

Doesn't help CIG of course :D
 
Years ago (five years? jeez) I talked about how CI is burning through about ~$50m a year. I was told I was crazy, that was too high, no way they would burn that much. That Chris Roberts would take a humble salary of sub $100k because he loves the game too much. Just laughable.

Chris is making millions a year. CI spends $50m a year according to themselves and every year they keep dipping more and more into the red. More loans. More investors. The devs get bonuses and royalties like it's a released game. What you are playing now isn't an alpha, no matter how much CI lies about it. It's a fully released game.
 
You missed the RoadMap Windup this week then? Its not shiny its beds, single beds, bunk beds, beds with privacy shields in this iteration so more beds to come with sheets, which unless satin wont be shiny, and NPCs sleeping so not moving so no server overload. And to do all that they only had to remove 5 or 6 ships from the roadmap.

Anybody got the latest funding tracker? The multi coloured monthly one showing record investment year after year not the stock market tracker one, just wondering how its comparing or matching up with last year. I cant find it online so presume its just by email or something.

My remark was more long-term from 2016 to today as in.....there hasnt been fundamental changes to the PTU since the 3.0 release. Some numbers have changed, new ships have been coming in and new stations or interios have been remoddelled....err I mean refactored but in all those years since the infamous 3.0 SC hasnt become more "complex"....it just added more visual stuff to stare at and if we can believe third party tools to be responsible for nice biomes and realistic outdoors than CiGs main responsebility so far has been to spend money not further the project.
 
Years ago (five years? jeez) I talked about how CI is burning through about ~$50m a year. I was told I was crazy, that was too high, no way they would burn that much. That Chris Roberts would take a humble salary of sub $100k because he loves the game too much. Just laughable.

Chris is making millions a year. CI spends $50m a year according to themselves and every year they keep dipping more and more into the red. More loans. More investors. The devs get bonuses and royalties like it's a released game. What you are playing now isn't an alpha, no matter how much CI lies about it. It's a fully released game.

So much people claimed in the past appeared to be crazy talk back then but is brutal reality today. And the only difference is that the people who told you then that you are crazy act today as if that was always common knowledge so if you are out for an admission of your past accurary...keep dreaming.txt :D

I can accept that SC already is a released game but that would mean that SC is a crappy game today....not sure if CiG is going to acknowledge one and thus accept the other and neither are the faithful. Its hard to say who exactly touts the "its alpha" excuse more....the fans who dont want to wake up or CiG to not trigger the linked conclusion.
 
19:07 GMT now and there's just been an update to the 3.13 PTU... according to test chat announcements, they've no idea how long the live patch will take to deploy so the 18:30 UTC number for a live release is just bollox.

[2021-04-22 Updates]
1625 UTC - Initial notice, Live Service Maintenance begins 1830 UTC with servers offline at 1855 UTC.
1830 UTC - Maintenance Window Begins, Servers Offline at 1855 UTC.

If the patch comes out today or even this week that would already be a strong improvement for CiG and their reliability I d say ^^
 
Well, he did manage to convince someone to buy a 14% stake in his JPG factory for a cool 43 million right?

He is still majority shareholder? How much does he still hold? 50%? Can he get 153 million for that 50%?

So all he needs to do is sell his shares back to CIG for the same amount other investors will buy them for, and then he can ride off into the sunset and plan his kickstarter for Star Citizen 2: The Search for More Money.

Doesn't help CIG of course :D
Hey now, wasn't that supposed to be for marketing SQ42 only? My stars, what are you possibly suggesting?
 
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