To Combat Module Storage Issues: Get Rid of "Fixed, Turret and Gimbal" Weapons, instead have only 1 weapon mount and let us configure at Outfitting

[teeth_03]

Basically he's asking for mounts to be purchasable at outfitting.

So you would buy a mount then buy a weapon to put on that mount similar to a fighter in a fighter bay.


However like someone pointed out weapons are too old in the code and this would probably not be easy to change. Even simple systems get buried and tangled no matter how good your documentation is or how clean your coding is. And considering the size of the team at the beginning you can bet those two things weren't the best.

It is really not our burden to think about how hard it would be to integrate our suggestions.

As a consumer we can suggest changes and it is up to them to evaluate if it is worth it or not.

Things like the universal limpet controller, and additional SRVs are probably not easy to update either but people suggest them all the time.

 

[Northpin]

It adds more to the gameplay than adding artificial grind for no reason. Ship loadouts should be flexible and easily changed, not rigid like they are now. We already have a dozen+ weapon types that come in different sizes that would still need to be engineered anyway, taking way one of the layers isn't going to make the game a shallow mess that you think it will.

I really fail to see what it ads to the gameplay. Nothing imo - it's just a workaround lazy/arcade approach
Less choices, less decisions and less consequences does not add to the gameplay, it only makes it flatter

So i have this Vette with a pair of huge fixed long range burst lasers, 3 turreted efficient beams (1 large and 2 mediums) and 2 small gimbaled high capacity multi-cannons
That means i've made some decisions in terms of combat efficacity. Excellent at long range sniping, not so excellent in close quarters versus nimble opponents.


Now you propose a lazy approach - i flip a switch and my fixed bursts can easily turn into either fixed or gimbals or even turrets so it's equally effective in a dogfight as well as long range sniping.
If you dont see a problem here, than we have a very different idea of keeping the gameplay interesting - resorting to iddqd features does not makes it interesting for me.

Also, lore wise (sort of):
A fixed mount is as rugged and hardened as it can be, so weapons will be able to pack a bigger punch while using less power (because there is no electro-mechanic components for moving and tracking which means more power can be diverted to damage increase)
Then gimbals have less sturdier mounts, some of the power that would be used to pump damage will be diverted to moving and tracking, so they have less damaged than fixed while using the most power of all the mounts type.
And at last turrets, even less sturdier, the load they are able to bring to bear is smaller, they are providing even less damage but also the smallest power requirements

And you want to level all those with the flip of a switch.
No, thanks.

 

[Lugh]

Things like the universal limpet controller, and additional SRVs are probably not easy to update either but people suggest them all the time.

unless they really screwed things up a new SRV would be easy to update. the problem there is creating the assets not plugging them in.

and yeah.... that would be why you still don't see a universal limpet controller despite people cluttering the forums and burring actually practical ideas.

 

[JTFireblaze]

Now you propose a lazy approach - i flip a switch and my fixed bursts can easily turn into either fixed or gimbals or even turrets so it's equally effective in a dogfight as well as long range sniping.
If you dont see a problem here, than we have a very different idea of keeping the gameplay interesting - resorting to iddqd features does not makes it interesting for me.

Restrict the flipping of said switches to outside of combat only, so you can't just make your hardpoints effective in dogfighting versus sniping mid fight. Your ship taken a beating? Run away and change up your tactics so when that pirate hits again you can suprise them.

Also iddqd features - the god mode cheat code? This is in no way "activating god mode". This is a suggestion for a way to allow players more customisation for their ships. If there are restrictions in place to prevent it being abused during combat I don't see how it's enabling "god mode".

Regardless, this is the suggestions forum. So it's never going to happen anyway. Oh well.

 

[Lugh]

Restrict the flipping of said switches to outside of combat only, so you can't just make your hardpoints effective in dogfighting versus sniping mid fight. Your ship taken a beating? Run away and change up your tactics so when that pirate hits again you can suprise them.

Also iddqd features - the god mode cheat code? This is in no way "activating god mode". This is a suggestion for a way to allow players more customisation for their ships. If there are restrictions in place to prevent it being abused during combat I don't see how it's enabling "god mode".

Regardless, this is the suggestions forum. So it's never going to happen anyway. Oh well.

and uhh. if its the same gun doing the shooting how exactly is this switch altering it so much that the properties of the weapon itself change?

 

[JTFireblaze]

and uhh. if its the same gun doing the shooting how exactly is this switch altering it so much that the properties of the weapon itself change?

I mentioned this earlier in the thread.

Fixed, gimballed, turrets have something like a 100/75/50% damage split? Should be a similar ratio based on which mode the mount is set to.

 

[Lugh]

I mentioned this earlier in the thread.

Fixed, gimballed, turrets have something like a 100/75/50% damage split? Should be a similar ratio based on which mode the mount is set to.

yeah.. but when they are completely different weapons where the mount itself is taking up more space on the hard point requiring a smaller weapon that makes sense. But just telling a weapon that is already mounted on a turret that I want it to shoot in a more limited arch some how doing more damage doesn't.

 

[JTFireblaze]

yeah.. but when they are completely different weapons where the mount itself is taking up more space on the hard point requiring a smaller weapon that makes sense. But just telling a weapon that is already mounted on a turret that I want it to shoot in a more limited arch some how doing more damage doesn't.

Aren't the actual weapon models the same, with different mounts in the current game? So it's plausible that the power going to the weapon is sort of related to it's mount?

If you want a lore explanation, the flex-mount tech allows the mount to lock in place, or offer gimballed and turreted rotations. When locked it enables more power to flow to the weapon and prevents recoil which enables more damage per shot. In gimballed and turret modes, due to the additional axis of movement, power is restricted to prevent damage to the weapon and mount mechanisms.

 

[Lugh]

Aren't the actual weapon models the same, with different mounts in the current game? So it's plausible that the power going to the weapon is sort of related to it's mount?

If you want a lore explanation, the flex-mount tech allows the mount to lock in place, or offer gimballed and turreted rotations. When locked it enables more power to flow to the weapon and prevents recoil which enables more damage per shot. In gimballed and turret modes, due to the additional axis of movement, power is restricted to prevent damage to the weapon and mount mechanisms.

... then why can't i just put more juice into my multi cannon in turret mode? it barley touches my distributer.

and no the turrets are smaller than the fixed.

 

[Northpin]

Aren't the actual weapon models the same, with different mounts in the current game?

The model might look the same, but lore wise it should not be the same.

From an engineering point of view, a fixed mount will be smaller and sturdier allowing to fit a bigger weapon in a given hardpoint bay
Conversely, a turreted mount will be bigger and thus carrying a smaller weapon in the same hardpoint bay.

Else there is no way to justify the 50% damage penalty of turreted mounts of even the existence of different mounting options

 

[teeth_03]

I would like to state my original idea was to have the "switch" in the Outfitting screen, so you can't switch during Combat.

Think of it as a guy in the hangar bay unbolting the Beam Laser from the fixed mount, removing the fixed mount, bolting on a turret mount, then bolting on a Beam Laser. Maybe he has to remove some components of the Beam Laser in the process that makes it not as powerful.

 

[Lugh]

I would like to state my original idea was to have the "switch" in the Outfitting screen, so you can't switch during Combat.

Think of it as a guy in the hangar bay unbolting the Beam Laser from the fixed mount, removing the fixed mount, bolting on a turret mount, then bolting on a Beam Laser. Maybe he has to remove some components of the Beam Laser in the process that makes it not as powerful.

yeah I think most of us understood your point. and it seemed most people agreed it would work but probably wouldn't be worth the implementation effort.

 

[JTFireblaze]

I would like to state my original idea was to have the "switch" in the Outfitting screen, so you can't switch during Combat.

Think of it as a guy in the hangar bay unbolting the Beam Laser from the fixed mount, removing the fixed mount, bolting on a turret mount, then bolting on a Beam Laser. Maybe he has to remove some components of the Beam Laser in the process that makes it not as powerful.

Apologies OP, kinda hijacked this with my own variation of your idea and ended up with a little too much back and forth!

For what it's worth, I mostly agree with your idea that being able to swap out the mount of a weapon makes great sense from a gameplay choice angle, storage solution, and respecting a player's time. Ship tinkering is one of the best parts of the game, and more options to do that is always a good thing.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Then there could be s a 3 way switch on the weapon hardpoint that can only be changed during Outfitting (or 2 way or no switch at all depending on the weapon) that changes between the mount option. When you change from Fixed to Gimbal or Turret, the stats drop like they do now so Fixed is still best.

The disadvantages with the more complicated mount remain regardless of how you use it. Its physical size, power consumption, added complexity of ammo feed, cabling, cooling, etc. remain. So sure you should be able to use a turret weapon as a fixed weapon but it wouldn't be as good as a dedicated fixed weapon. And some fixed weapons would not be adaptable to be gimballed or turreted because of size or complexity.

So the stats for these "adaptable" weapons would be the stat for the base turret weapon. There would be no improvement when flicking the switch from turret mode to fixed mode.

Edit:
But I would love a switch that flips a gimballed weapon into a fixed position on-the-fly so I can shoot through the chaff better.

 

[tolm]

Whilst I would like weapons that can be configured for Fixed / Gimballed, I’d personally prefer that to be selectable per-Fire Group so you can easily switch between modes.

I’m also not sure that should be the only weapon choice ... after all, a Gimballed Weapon switched into Fixed mode shouldn’t magically now do the same damage as a permanently fixed weapon.

So ...

• Turreted weapons could have Turreted / Gimballed and Fixed modes
• Gimballed weapons could have Gimballed and Fixed modes
• Fixed weapons would just have the one mode

Base stats would be the same as now so still an advantage to using Fixed only and no magic extra damage for switching modes.

And, of course, weapons that currently only come in Fixed variants would still only come in Fixed variants.

 

[Lugh]

But I would love a switch that flips a gimballed weapon into a fixed position on-the-fly so I can shoot through the chaff better.

the T button does this... assuming you use default bindings

 

[Greasetrap42]

the T button does this... assuming you use default bindings

Ah, very good, never thought of this. T selects target ahead (or deselects your current target). which does effectively make the gimballed weapon fire as fixed. Excellent tip, thx. (It would still be nice to be able to do this without deselecting the target, but hey this works!)

Copied from wiki:
When fired without a locked target, a Gimballed weapon will act as a Fixed mount instead, firing directly ahead. This can be used to partially bypass the scrambling effect of chaff; unlock the target and track/lead manually until the chaff effect ends.