Why I and many others will rarely play open
- Thread starter vanishboy
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
That's what we all bought - some players don't accept that other players have that choice though.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Quite different - beta and alpha don't stop the live game running.
Looks like we are back to the "I want to force others to play with me" dead horse...
"On a dark desert highway, cool wind in my hair..."
"On a dark desert highway, cool wind in my hair..."
PvP players apparently have a different opinion, which is that IF others are forced to play with them when affecting the game, the outcome would be a better game for (almost) everybody. The discussion is going on for so long, because all we can do is speculating, because it was never experienced. That's why I said it would be an interesting experiment. Without trying it, both sides can only speculate. This is not wrong per se, but rather fruitless, because there will never be knowledge without trying it, or at least without falsifying certain hypotheses.
And I think there's the problem isn't it? I'm not keen on 'forcing' anyone to play in a certain way.
Which is why I first thought your proposal is a good alternative: do like beta and alpha, only not for the next update, but for the experiment. Copy over CMDR data, run life instance as usual, but have an "alternate universe" server to test the premise of open-only.
It would still lead to skewed results as those that want to play in peace without negative effects by the doings of other players unto them won't take part in this experiment.
Open only won't work, regardless of how you'd spin or try to introduce it. You'd alienate too many players. Forced PvP in an open world/sandbox will always be a niche, especially if there is the threat of losing progress.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Their differing opinion is well known and has been since the first backers realised that players would not need to play with them to affect the game, however, unfortunately for them, Frontier sold a game with entirely optional PvP to all players and players who enjoy that optional activity can't force other players to play with them.
Frontier know what happened in Alpha, noting that the Mobius PvE Private Group formed before game launch and Frontier had to increase the limit on PC PG membership a couple of times when the PG hit the limit (the PG limit is now 20,000 players on PC, 1,000 players on consoles).
It might be an interesting experiment for those who seek to PvP-gate existing content to Open or hope that somehow Solo and Private Groups would be removed - not so much for those who don't enjoy PvP. I suspect that the hoped for experiment will remain as elusive as PvP-gated content though.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Who would play "for real" in a second non-canon galaxy state, where all progress would be wiped at the end of the trial (as it would have diverged from the canon galaxy state during the trial period)?
But those who do not participate would also not affect the state for those that do, right? Isn't that one of the hypotheses, that BGS and PP is skewed by all modes affecting it?
The numbers of those that shun the experiment would also show something: that there is not that big a PvP or open-only community as sometimes proclaimed.
Good point. I can see that the prospect of progress got wiped eventually would change "players" to "testers", just as with beta/alphas. However, those who would want to see such a system to prove their point would certainly take part, I'd say. If anything, this would even shy away the usual murder hobos that are just out for salt-mining. And who knows, perhaps some of those furiously opposing the idea would take a look just to see what kind of wreck it is? Perhaps only to see that it isn't?
My point is: nobody can say for sure if it works out or not without trying it, if only in the form of an experiment. Some may say they can, but I don't believe them.
Could well be, I for sure see more FCs than players and wonder if on PC the system is full of players. Or could be your reputation if youre the same ObiW thats Elite in CQC
I play Open for the chance of pirates, RPers and the forlorn hope that someone will want an SLF battle or an SRV race, derby or battle or something that I see on YT all the time that looks amazing and just never seems to happen on XB, even PVPers in silent running DBXs that just made me laugh and never expected that to happen. I just have to put up with the Alpha strike gankers who interrupt my game for no benefit to me, or them as they cant seem to finish the job anwyay. Dunno about PS but they seem a chilled out helpful crowd.
But I can talk to gankers on here, always ask them for builds and 99% of the time they happy to post Coriolis of offensive and defensive ships, just wish in game theyd offer more of an experience and Id play along, its why Im in Open, for the experience not to be content for a mere 'lol' in chat which seems to be the aim if not the result. Then I might just build a PVP ship. I always intended to just got no need and too much to do right now and Im never near the PVP events at the right time even the weekly starter ones I intend to go to I just never make it.
I get chased out of Open far more by FCs blue tunnelling me to death especially at CGs, any attempt at entering SC is almost always pointless, the initial jump-in is fine but dropping and re-entering is goodbye game, hello Home Screen and reload from scratch.
But I will never look down on anyone and will always defend anyone who chooses PG or Solo for whatever reason, I want them in my favourite game ED, paying for their game and encouraging Frontier to keep going. I like the ganker evasions school and used to promote that where possible as encourages people into Open, more encouragement and less scorning and victim blaming is what Open needs. And sometimes more block for the griefers as Frontier seem too slow to act or realise how toxic they are to the much wider community.
Quite different, and you should see how the general Console player feels about that exclusivity to affect the main game with First Foot etc right now.
Open only would only work with some sort of PVP optional flag, so youd see them but not be able to interdict or shoot them at all and would still have Cross play and pay to play problems for Consoles anyway. Better that each person has the choice to do what they want as it is now as long as the game keeps running. imo
Although a separate griefer or blocked server would be interesting, due to the amounts of the same people being blocked repeatedly by many players in a forced Open, what would Open be like then I wonder?...like all the PGs added together maybe?
That would honestly be a terrible solution - better that a separate "PvE Open" be created where, as now, the players interested in PvP can "interact" with any other player they see - having a visible target that is "untouchable" would be opening a can of worms of a magnitude never seen before on the forum!
The most interesting observation I have made is that when suggesting that PvE players get their own brand of Open, is that there are many 'alleged PvP' players decrying the idea as it would 'split the player base even further' - which is odd as the majority of those playing solely PvE are unlikely to be bothering with open anyway
I know
But its the only logical solution to Open Only in a PVP optional game...that or block would go through the roof, so just putting it out there as the consequence for calling for Open Only. Probably best just left as it is hey and let other players do what they want in their own game?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I've noticed the same - it's as if the fact that Open has an unlimited population is considered to be somewhat of a lure to bring those seeking to play among other players into the only such mode in the game even if they don't want to engage in PvP, which would no longer hold true if another Open mode were created.The most interesting observation I have made is that when suggesting that PvE players get their own brand of Open, is that there are many 'alleged PvP' players decrying the idea as it would 'split the player base even further' - which is odd as the majority of those playing solely PvE are unlikely to be bothering with open anyway
Regarding splitting the player-base - the player-base arrived in the game pre-split, as the game has always offered three game modes that share the single galaxy state.
I, for one, and quite content using all 3 modes whenever I wish. Solo is pretty rare for me, but was mode of choice in the alpha just because I gained a couple of FPS in doing so...
Tbh I think that frontier have given us plenty of tools to manage our game experience, so knee jerk reactions involving open only / pve only or whatever are never going to hold.
Deleted member 182079
D
That's all fair enough - apart from the CQC bit no idea who that is - my in-game CMDR name is in my sig and a little different to my handle hereCould well be, I for sure see more FCs than players and wonder if on PC the system is full of players. Or could be your reputation if youre the same ObiW thats Elite in CQC
I play Open for the chance of pirates, RPers and the forlorn hope that someone will want an SLF battle or an SRV race, derby or battle or something that I see on YT all the time that looks amazing and just never seems to happen on XB, even PVPers in silent running DBXs that just made me laugh and never expected that to happen. I just have to put up with the Alpha strike gankers who interrupt my game for no benefit to me, or them as they cant seem to finish the job anwyay. Dunno about PS but they seem a chilled out helpful crowd.
But I can talk to gankers on here, always ask them for builds and 99% of the time they happy to post Coriolis of offensive and defensive ships, just wish in game theyd offer more of an experience and Id play along, its why Im in Open, for the experience not to be content for a mere 'lol' in chat which seems to be the aim if not the result. Then I might just build a PVP ship. I always intended to just got no need and too much to do right now and Im never near the PVP events at the right time even the weekly starter ones I intend to go to I just never make it.
I get chased out of Open far more by FCs blue tunnelling me to death especially at CGs, any attempt at entering SC is almost always pointless, the initial jump-in is fine but dropping and re-entering is goodbye game, hello Home Screen and reload from scratch.
But I will never look down on anyone and will always defend anyone who chooses PG or Solo for whatever reason, I want them in my favourite game ED, paying for their game and encouraging Frontier to keep going. I like the ganker evasions school and used to promote that where possible as encourages people into Open, more encouragement and less scorning and victim blaming is what Open needs. And sometimes more block for the griefers as Frontier seem too slow to act or realise how toxic they are to the much wider community.
I only made it to 10% Mostly Helpless because CQC isn't really my cup of tea, it being so separate from the main game, and the arcadey bits like power ups etc. don't really fit well into Elite imo.All in all, I'm fairly in the live-and-let-live camp, with the following stances
- pick the mode you prefer to play in
- having different modes to choose from is a good thing
- it's a game, I can't take any drama about what happens in it all that seriously, probably helped by the fact that I don't have a real desire to always 'win' or be the 'best'.
- certain aspects like PP would benefit from being restricted to Open only, but I don't have much skin in that part of the game so I don't feel too strongly about it either way
- those who argue for Open Only need to give it a rest - it's a stupid, unworkable idea, it's not going to ever happen, going on about it will not change that
- as a mostly PvE player, PvP (including co-op) is at best a very optional extra, doesn't affect my main game at all and I almost feel a bit sorry (genuinely) for those players who have chosen to engage in it exclusively - because I don't think Elite and its network infrastructure, let alone in-game structures allow for a meaningful, fair and competitive MP environment; it requires self regulation as the game won't do it for them, and I can only see frustration and disappointment down that road so I won't ever head in that direction too seriously myself. Fair play to those who make it work as it requires a fair few compromises and jumping-through-hoops.
- I don't mind gankers, au contraire they offer a good challenge to test both my own skills and my ship builds, and are a nice change from overly simple and too easy NPCs
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