A potentially great game ruined by spite, incompetence and mediocre performance and poor AA

[VR StarLightPL]

I wonder what kind of figures were at stake in CP2077 release, hundreds of millions?

You can guesstimate the magnitude. The game recouped production costs before release. Keep in mind how long it was in development, and disregard the fact that polish wages are nowhere near their western counterparts. It recouped a whole studio working multiple years, in frikkin preorders. So you can imagine how big of a sum that was. Source:

Current report no. 65/2020 - CD PROJEKT

Subject: Information regarding the estimated return on the Company’s investments related to development and promotion of Cyberpunk 2077 Legal basis: Art. 17 section 1 of the Market Abuse Regulation – inside information The Management Board

www.cdprojekt.com

Game release date was Dec 10.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

I work in DoD software development and we would get crucified if we followed game developer methodologies.

Well it's using right tools for the job. I am sure that if FDev QA were testing a medical grade X-Ray scanner firmware, this wouldn't happen. Because plain and simple there would be prosecution afterwards if it did. Different purposes, different methodologies. But this is a computer game. It won't kill anyone. I don't understand the motivations of people buying on release or preordering. It's expected the first days will be rough. They will stabilise it eventually, but why be an unpaid QA guy? I can wait...

 

[KapitanKugel]

Hey Commanders,
here are my two words about Odyssey:
I love Elite Dangerous and bought the alpha without playing it for 46€ only to support Frontier.
After release I was disappointed that the game runs so poorly. I don't have hardcore hardware (Xeon, 16GB, GTX970) and was able to play Horizon at 1440p on High with absolutely stable 60fps. My expectations for Odyssey were: 1440p on Mid or Low with 60fps. What is the reality: Odyseey runs on 1080p and supersampling on 0.5 and graphics on low and I sometimes commute on 20-40 fps. With this I can not play 2 days after release. I will switch back to Horizon. There again play on High 60Fps and wait if odyssey will be playable for people with MID or LOW end PCs. i have refunded the DLC over steam. Sorry, over and out CMDRs. Have fun in Odyseey :´(

 

[Old Duck]

At this point there's no point in arguing endlessly with delusional white nights - you aren't going to cure them of stockholm syndrome.

What white knights? Oh yeah, I ignored them all! There's an echo chamber that I don't miss.

 

[Dartay]

You can guesstimate the magnitude. The game recouped production costs before release. Keep in mind how long it was in development, and disregard the fact that polish wages are nowhere near their western counterparts. It recouped a whole studio working multiple years, in frikkin preorders. So you can imagine how big of a sum that was. Source:

Current report no. 65/2020 - CD PROJEKT

Subject: Information regarding the estimated return on the Company’s investments related to development and promotion of Cyberpunk 2077 Legal basis: Art. 17 section 1 of the Market Abuse Regulation – inside information The Management Board

www.cdprojekt.com

Game release date was Dec 10.

Playing the hype and miking it has become an entire new separate enterprise for these studios.

We've seen several iterations of it now. CBP2077 was incredibly succesful if you leave out customer experience and loss of goodwill. The former of which nobody up top cares about – the latter of which is prevented from occurring by said hype and the rabid morons that perpetuate it.

It's happening in this thread as we speak. Just look at the posts signaling frustration or ridicule at any criticism expressed towards Frontier, legitimate or not – yet seemingly unable to provide cohesive reasoning for their frustration or condescension.

 

[Linnunrata]

I don't understand the motivations of people buying on release or preordering. It's expected the first days will be rough. They will stabilise it eventually, but why be an unpaid QA guy? I can wait...

I guess I can only speak for myself as a pre orderer/release buyer, but mainly it's just that 40€ isn't that much to drop to a game that I play anyway and Odyssey almost certainly won't be in sale in foreseeable future. I see no actual benefit in waiting four months for FDev to fix the DLC as there's no way I will wait for the sale that takes place year or two from now (and would probably save me a pint worth of money).

 

[VR StarLightPL]

I guess I can only speak for myself as a pre orderer/release buyer, but mainly it's just that 40€ isn't that much to drop to a game that I play anyway and Odyssey almost certainly won't be in sale in foreseeable future. I see no actual benefit in waiting four months for FDev to fix the DLC as there's no way I will wait for the sale that takes place year or two from now (and would probably save me a pint worth of money).

With how things are going, I think it will be on sale in half a year, tops. Which is also a trend recently with bigger releases. Agree that 40€ isn't "much", but I'd wait at least till release on principle, to stop this "we can release anything in any state, shape or form" malpractice. In short, I'm voting with my wallet here (VR issue + do not preorder, even from CDPR + poor quality of EDO).

 

[Dartay]

I guess I can only speak for myself as a pre orderer/release buyer, but mainly it's just that 40€ isn't that much to drop to a game that I play anyway and Odyssey almost certainly won't be in sale in foreseeable future. I see no actual benefit in waiting four months for FDev to fix the DLC as there's no way I will wait for the sale that takes place year or two from now (and would probably save me a pint worth of money).

But it's not just your preorder. Every preorder placed is another sale that Frontier doesn't have to make on the merits of its product. Together, this amounts to what is basically a significant, interest-free, no strings attached business loan.

In other words, the benefit would be a larger incentive for Frontier to deliver a high quality product.

 

[Lone_star]

Just imagine how a new player is going to react when they find out there's no way to skip a taxi ride and you literally have to sit there for minutes at a time. For someone who has never played ED that is going to seem completely and totally insane. (esp if they don't know any better and travel for a mission that's in colonia or something)

 

[Cervantes01]

Just imagine how a new player is going to react when they find out there's no way to skip a taxi ride and you literally have to sit there for minutes at a time. For someone who has never played ED that is going to seem completely and totally insane. (esp if they don't know any better and travel for a mission that's in colonia or something)

I'd love to try an apex taxi, sadly orange sidewinders prevent it.

 

[Tetra Trash]

With how things are going, I think it will be on sale in half a year, tops. Which is also a trend recently with bigger releases. Agree that 40€ isn't "much", but I'd wait at least till release on principle, to stop this "we can release anything in any state, shape or form" malpractice. In short, I'm voting with my wallet here (VR issue + do not preorder, even from CDPR + poor quality of EDO).

Similar, I really like E : D and want it to succeed, but given what I've seen about previous releases I decided to wait until after the release to buy in (and it looks like I'll be waiting a while longer). I'd be happy to pay full price for a good product that works well, but it doesn't seem this is anywhere close to that. Even tuning out the dramatic hyperbole and wild accusations of malfeasance it looks like there are major, real problems with Odyssey. I'm hoping they can get it turned around soon!

 

[CmdrKull]

Just imagine how a new player is going to react when they find out there's no way to skip a taxi ride and you literally have to sit there for minutes at a time. For someone who has never played ED that is going to seem completely and totally insane. (esp if they don't know any better and travel for a mission that's in colonia or something)

Actually you can't take an Apex to Colonia, there's I think a 100ly limit.

I can imagine newbie not liking the Apex ride, I hated it when it was the only thing available in Alpha 1, but Frontier can't/shouldn't change the game to be what new players want, if what they want is actually a different game.

I am disappointed that FD didn't introduce anything to do while you ride the Apex though. We brought it up frequently and they responded and intimated that they would try to make it more engaging. Maybe they will eventually, but right now...

I still like the Apex shuttles though, and use them when I'm doing missions. They're convenient!

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Do you want to know what spite is? Today i learnt what spite is.

They fixed the station menu bug where the cursor snaps back to the refuelling icon a few seconds after they landed.

So for the last year, they thought so highly of players they didn't care. The amount of spite involved not to go in and fix something so direct... it can only be spite.

 

[Linnunrata]

But it's not just your preorder. Every preorder placed is another sale that Frontier doesn't have to make on the merits of its product.

Yeah, I get that. But simultaneously I'm sure we both know that there's no stopping the preorders and even less buying right on release. I appreciate the idealist activism on this, but simultaneously I don't really care enough for making a statement on a thing that realistically speaking won't change. It's just 40€ and I want to test the newest iteration of one of my favourite computer games right away.

Together, this amounts to what is basically a significant, interest-free, no strings attached business loan.

True though like any order, they will actually have to deliver the product and I had a right to refund. But realistically speaking, the cost for me to give this interest-free loan is a fraction of a cent that my bank would pay interest to me if I kept the money on my bank account for a few months.

To add an interesting detail, I'm actually in general pretty conservative buyer and seldomly buy computer games on full price unless I really really want them (and even as a sale buyer I have a massive backlog as well). It's just that ED is one of my pet games and we've been starved of content for ages now. Merely trying to explain my motivations of buying early here for @VR StarLightPL who said he didn't understand them, not saying that you guys aren't right in principle or anything.

 

[Carpe Noctem 0311]

First off, I understand, and EXPECT "bugs." I love this game, and have played it since the beginning, both on Xbox, & on PC, that's how much I enjoyed the game. However, strictly speaking about Odyssey, my experience since release has been:
1. Take one mission. 2. Land on planet. 3. Disembark in SRV. 4. Dismiss ship. 5. Get killed in SRV. 6. Go to screen telling me to re-buy my dismissed ship, and SRV. 7. I pay for 1st re-buy. 8. I maker a few jumps, and the game drops me due a "server error." 9. I reconnect, and the same "you died during a mission" screen pops up, forcing me to re-buy for a 2nd 34 million. 10. I submit a ticket, and bug report. 11. I play for a bit, then log out. 12. I log back in, and VOILA...a 3rd screen telling me yet again i've died from the same mission i've only had once. 13. This time I have to sell a 74million ship to be able to pay for a 3rd re-buy. 14. I play for a bit, jump a few systems, land at a station, interact with station services, then eventually have to log off. 15. I log back in, and BAM...ANOTHER (4th) screen telling me I died Yet Again from the same original mission, requesting I yet again pay for a 4th 34million re-buy. 16. A patch/upgrade drops. I install, and log in, same 4th request to re-buy. 17. Another patch/upgrade drops, i again install, log in, and same 4th screen requesting a 4th re-buy. Considering it does this EVERY TIME I log out, and come back in, expecting me to pay another 34million for a ship that was only somehow destroyed once despite being dismissed form the planet's surface, ands even consenting to the first re-buy, I still am out 34+34+74, and now staring at another screen requesting another 34million. Keeping all of this in mind, I simply log off, and continue to wait. I realize this is all a recent release, and that it has only been about 48 hours since I submitted my ticket/report for them to A. Remove me from the "You Died" loop; & B. Reimburse me for money being lost repeatedly due to no fault of my own (bug), but I can't even play. If it has done this 4 times, there is no indication it won't do it as soon as I pay for the 4th re-buy, then log out, and back in, or get disconnected due to yet another Server Error.
So, as I said, I can deal with bugs, but right now, this is game breaking, and worse to me, is the lack of communication I often see from FDev, which means I don't even know, unless it's out there somewhere that I missed, that they are even aware of issues like mine. I don't mind failing some missions while bugs are being worked out, I can deal with that. What i'm currently experiencing though...not really able to accept as "o.k."
I just felt like chiming in here...as a Customer/Consumer, and fan of the game...I am definitely not in a good frame of mind. Maybe they'll get back to me before 72 hours, maybe a week. Who knows. However, until they do, i'd almost kill for being able to play some "bugged" missions, if I could actually play without a 34million credit fee for logging out/in every time. That's my story....carry on.

 

[Zinegata]

To add an interesting detail, I'm actually in general pretty conservative buyer and seldomly buy computer games on full price unless I really really want them (and even as a sale buyer I have a massive backlog as well). It's just that ED is one of my pet games and we've been starved of content for ages now. Merely trying to explain my motivations of buying early here for @VR StarLightPL who said he didn't understand them, not saying that you guys aren't right in principle or anything.

That's not really a reason to buy a game though. Indeed, many companies deliberately exploit customers "starving" for content.

People simply need to learn to tame their FOMO urges, especially when much of that FOMO is simply artificially pushed and enabled by marketing dollars.

 

[Linnunrata]

That's not really a reason to buy a game though.

Perhaps it isn't, but wanting to play something is IMO a very good reason to buy a game. I don't think it is a question of FOMO because I don't really care much whether the others play the game or not. With 1,8k hours in ED, I really don't need any marketing to add it a DLC to that game my shopping list.

 

[Dartay]

I really don't need any marketing to add it to my shopping list.

Which is something any halfway decent analyst will know, and any halfway well-run business will capitalize on to the fullest extent.

 

[Linnunrata]

Which is something any halfway decent analyst will know, and any halfway well-run business will capitalize on to the fullest extent.

Sounds a bit conspirational if you are suggesting that FDev purposefully released a buggy mess because they knew that me and even more committed people here on the forum would buy it anyway. Especially since I had a full refund right all along.

In the end I don't think it really matters anyway. Similarly CP2077 was also decried as a piece of crap (which it probably was on consoles), but I actually enjoyed playing it and will probably do a replay in a year or two. Sure it was not a new messiah like it was touted to be, but a fairly decent plot-based FPS/action-RPG and I have easily had my moneys worth.

 

[Dartay]

Sounds a bit conspirational if you are suggesting that FDev purposefully released a buggy mess because they knew that me and even more committed people here on the forum would buy it anyway. Especially since I had a full refund right all along.

It's not a conspiracy. It's business.

If a business is able to cut costs without risking loss of revenue or goodwill (resp through preorders and whiteknighting fans), it will do so. Always. Doing otherwise would be bad business.