Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Intrepid3D

Intrepid3D
Coloratura said:
Oh, I didn't stop, that half second lag was where the server decided I didn't qualify as a solid object. :D

On another note, did you all know that once the game goes live (if ever), that if you lose your ship in-game, and it doesn't have insurance, you lose it permanently? I'm not talking about ships you buy in-game, but the real money ships you paid for... with real money:

robertsspaceindustries.com

Insurance and ships bought with real world money - Star Citizen Spectrum

I don't want to beat a dead horse as this has been spoken about ad nauseam, but I've noticed people who defend the possibility of perma-losing uninsured ships that have been purchased with real...
robertsspaceindustries.com robertsspaceindustries.com

What's funny is the responses are like "of COURSE you lose it, and you deserve to!"

So that $1,000 exploration package? If you don't have insurance on it, and you lose it in game, it's gone for good because you made a pledge, you didn't actually purchase the ship. I hope anyone considering ship purchases is aware of this, because everyone in that thread is like "of course we know! Everyone knows!" and I bet new players haven't the foggiest idea their shiny new ship packages might literally disappear.
Click to expand...

Is this speculation or is it a fact that you lose the money you put into the game when you lose your ship?

If RSI are going to take your money and reset your account to 0 money for someone else destroying your ship, or any reason, i can see a 10,000 person lawsuit going their way because that is not going to fly legally.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Coloratura said:
Oh, I didn't stop, that half second lag was where the server decided I didn't qualify as a solid object. :D

On another note, did you all know that once the game goes live (if ever), that if you lose your ship in-game, and it doesn't have insurance, you lose it permanently? I'm not talking about ships you buy in-game, but the real money ships you paid for... with real money:

robertsspaceindustries.com

Insurance and ships bought with real world money - Star Citizen Spectrum

I don't want to beat a dead horse as this has been spoken about ad nauseam, but I've noticed people who defend the possibility of perma-losing uninsured ships that have been purchased with real...
robertsspaceindustries.com robertsspaceindustries.com

What's funny is the responses are like "of COURSE you lose it, and you deserve to!"

So that $1,000 exploration package? If you don't have insurance on it, and you lose it in game, it's gone for good because you made a pledge, you didn't actually purchase the ship. I hope anyone considering ship purchases is aware of this, because everyone in that thread is like "of course we know! Everyone knows!" and I bet new players haven't the foggiest idea their shiny new ship packages might literally disappear.
Click to expand...

Never fly without rebuy is going to be even more prevalent saying SC than in ED
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
Coloratura said:
It may not take final release. There's been scuttlebutt about insurance timers being active in the alpha (we are talking about CR, who keeps pushing the notion that this is already a playable game). All of the game's punishment features are being added well ahead of any kind of beta, so I wouldn't count on them waiting until official release.
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I really feel for those without LTi, whether they've never thought about it or just didn't know of the possibility of losing your cash bought bling barge scenario...never paid much heed to it before I first began to suspect that it just might be important. Everything I have has LTi...from the ROC buggy to the Hercs and everything in between. I didn't pay any extra for it, most of the LTi cover was included in the ship packages I have and I was just careful CCU'ing the odd standalone stuff I have from LTi token ships to keep or add it.

You can surely bet when insurance becomes active...it'll be a real cash deal similar to a subscription service to obtain and run it unless you have LTi.

Pay to win? Of course it is :cautious:
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Hah, from that thread

tavern_upload_medium.jpg


In other words, all the things backers get hyped about that the devs talked about but CR never did he can simply say "It didn't come from me"

Brilliant
 

Xink

Xink
Intrepid3D said:
If RSI are going to take your money and reset your account to 0 money for someone else destroying your ship, or any reason, i can see a 10,000 person lawsuit going their way because that is not going to fly legally.
Click to expand...
How it works in every other game (that doesn't ask for real life money for ships).

And how CIG has repeatedly said it will work unless you have LTI, which was supposedly a kickstarter only thing and a huge selling point because of the loss of ship risk.

They will likely end up selling insurance as a subscription service kind of thing if they ever enforce this. Because it's just another way of making money after all.
 

Red Martian

Red Martian
Intrepid3D said:
Is this speculation or is it a fact that you lose the money you put into the game when you lose your ship?

If RSI are going to take your money and reset your account to 0 money for someone else destroying your ship, or any reason, i can see a 10,000 person lawsuit going their way because that is not going to fly legally.
Click to expand...
According to some of the more anal retentive folks in that thread, it's official CIG policy that if you lose your real money ship and it was without the pretend insurance, it's gone for good unless you grind in game to buy it that way.

Agony_Aunt said:
Never fly without rebuy is going to be even more prevalent saying SC than in ED
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At least with ED, I used fake money in-game to buy those ships!

Mole HD said:
I really feel for those without LTi, whether they've never thought about it or just didn't know of the possible losing your cash bought bling barge scenario...never paid much heed to it before I first began to suspect that it just might be important. Everything I have has LTi...from the ROC buggy to the Hercs and everything in between. I didn't pay any extra for it, I was just careful CCU'ing stuff from up LTi token ships to keep it.

You can surely bet when insurance becomes active...it'll be a real cash deal similar to a subscription service to obtain and run it unless you have LTi :cautious:
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Yeah, I can guarantee you most people don't know they lose it permanently, because the EULA is long and bloated, and few people read them if ever, because they probably didn't think CIG was going to be like a real insurance company and just refuse to replace their assets even though they paid a lot of real world money for them, and it literally costs nothing to replace. My Phoenix has 10 year insurance, which is more than adequate I'd wager, while my Titan is a 6 mo insured ship. As I said in that thread, what the hell are these people trying to make this game into? It's kind of sick, at least from my perspective, to be glad if someone loses a $200, $300, $1,000 ship because they didn't also get the fake insurance.

You keep seeing them say "insurance will be so cheap" in-game, and you have to wonder if it's that inconsequential, why would CIG actively allow a real money asset to be permanently wiped if it was so negligible? I mean, I guess CIG's just going to be that company which sells real life insurance on fake ships.

Now I'm thinking about the people who are going to buy these upcoming homesteads, too.
 

Intrepid3D

Intrepid3D
Xink said:
How it works in every other game (that doesn't ask for real life money for ships).

And how CIG has repeatedly said it will work unless you have LTI, which was supposedly a kickstarter only thing and a huge selling point because of the loss of ship risk.

They will likely end up selling insurance as a subscription service kind of thing if they ever enforce this. Because it's just another way of making money after all.
Click to expand...

So its a constant gamble by cohertiton of penalty, i'll take your real money, reset your account to 0$, and to make sure it doesn't happen again you have to keep giving me more money, if you stop giving me money, i'll take all of your in game possessions, again.

Good luck defending against any lawsuit in any court with that.
 
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Mole HD

Mole HD
Intrepid3D said:
So its a constant gamble by cohertiton of penalty, i'll take your real money, reset your account to 0$, and to make sure it doesn't happen again you have to keep giving me more money, if you stop giving me money, i'll take all of your in game possessions, again.

Good luck defending against any lawsuit in any court with that.
Click to expand...
It's not about any mention of lawsuits...lots of folk strangely think that's in someway a deterrent to the likes of Ci¬G who have no doubt dotted all the i's and crossed the T's in the right places. Assuming they haven't, they'll just change the EULA and TOS to suit themselves, like they've repeatedly done ad nauseam over the years.

If...and lets assume the worst case scenario of Ci¬G being stupid and greedy enough to follow through with what is merely speculation at the moment...it'll kill Star Citizen off as a viable concern outside of those faithful idiots who persist in giving them consequence free cash on a regular basis.

As a multiplayer game with pretentious ambitions to become an MMO, no average gamer in their right minds would subject to a set of conditions that would shame even the worst Korean Pay 2 play development studio.
 

Red Martian

Red Martian
Mole HD said:
It's not about any mention of lawsuits...lots of folk strangely think that's in someway a deterrent to the likes of Ci¬G who have no doubt dotted all the i's and crossed the T's in the right places. If...and lets assume the worst case scenario of Ci¬G being stupid and greedy enough to follow through with what is merely speculation at the moment...it'll kill Star Citizen off as a viable concern outside of those faithful idiots who persist in giving them consequence free cash on a regular basis.

As a multiplayer game with pretentious ambitions to become an MMO, no average gamer in their right minds would subject to a set of conditions that would shame even the worst Korean Pay 2 play development studio.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Every MMO I've played that offers assets for real world cash: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, World of Warcraft, et al, have followed practices that say once you buy something, it's permanent unless you choose to actively delete it for good from their database, and there are confirmations of it when you do (as in "Type DELETE in the box if you really want to do this thing").
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
Mole HD said:
It's worth it just to say you've been and done it...it'll be laggy, there'll be bugs and desync aplenty...but besides...and perhaps despite the marketing event, it may give you an insight into why some of us persevere with it given all the issues Star Citizen suffers from, corporate and development wise. It's free at least so you're not losing anything by giving it a go...which is the only positive thing I can really offer for yet another utterly offensive Ci¬G cash grabbing marketing event :)
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My two concerns are

1) My internet is rubbish, so it will take a long time download (probably a couple of days since I'll only be downloading while I sleep)
2) When it comes time to uninstall, what "leftovers" will be on my drive and Windows register? Yes, I'm paranoid (for good reason)
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
Old Duck said:
My two concerns are

1) My internet is rubbish, so it will take a long time download (probably a couple of days since I'll only be downloading while I sleep)
2) When it comes time to uninstall, what "leftovers" will be on my drive and Windows register? Yes, I'm paranoid (for good reason)
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There's no 'uninstall' option like normal games...fortunately, most of Star Citizen's files are stored where you install them, with a couple of wayward folders stuck where you have to look for them. Besides registry entries, it's nothing too complicated... but a persistent bugbear for folks like you and I who want no traces of unistalled files remaining after a program is removed from the system.
 

Intrepid3D

Intrepid3D
Mole HD said:
It's not about any mention of lawsuits...lots of folk strangely think that's in someway a deterrent to the likes of Ci¬G who have no doubt dotted all the i's and crossed the T's in the right places. If...and lets assume the worst case scenario of Ci¬G being stupid and greedy enough to follow through with what is merely speculation at the moment...it'll kill Star Citizen off as a viable concern outside of those faithful idiots who persist in giving them consequence free cash on a regular basis.

As a multiplayer game with pretentious ambitions to become an MMO, no average gamer in their right minds would subject to a set of conditions that would shame even the worst Korean Pay 2 play development studio.
Click to expand...
Whatever CR wants, or not, or what he thinks he can get away with, irrelevant, all that meters is what is legal and what is not.

In game loot boxes are illegal, because its disguised gambling and you're not allowed to have gambling in games unless your platform is gambling, even then there are rules.
Because gambling can turn into a form of addiction, especially if its coerced.

Taking someones $300 in game item because they didn't pay $10 a month is coercion, no mater how that result is come by or how this warning is written in the TOS.

What real money you have put in the game is untouchable, at the very least it must always be given back to you, in full, as store credits.
What you can do is ask for a real money subscription to cover the items that you bought with the in game currency you earned.
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
Intrepid3D said:
Whatever CR wants, or not, or what he thinks he can get away with, irrelevant, all that meters is what is legal and what is not.

In game loot boxes are illegal, because its disguised gambling and you're not allowed to have gambling in games unless your platform is gambling, even then there are rules.
Because gambling can turn into a form of addiction, especially if its coerced.

Taking someones $300 in game item because they didn't pay $10 a month is coercion, no mater how that result is come by or how this warning is written in the TOS.

What real money you have put in the game is untouchable, at the very least it must always be given back to you, in full, as store credits.
What you can do is ask for a real money subscription to cover the items that you bought with the in game currency you earned.
Click to expand...
You're assuming that any transaction in Star Citizen is viewed by them or a relevant small claims court as an actual purchase of digital goods rather than a freely given 'donation' to aid the development of their product...as I'm constantly reminded by the Star Citizen faithful...despite having paid VAT on everything I've ever purchased from RSi/Ci¬G...or whichever one of the constantly shifting onshore and offshore shell companies is dealing with the cash transactions on a day to day basis. Ci¬G has more efficiently invisible money laundering services than the Mafia ;)
 
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