NPC reaction really need a fix

[VR SenseiMatty]

They are really game breaker.
They are just too nervous and over reacting.
NPCs alert threshold and reaction really need to be adjusted or missions are quickly frustrating.

For example:
I took 3 espionage missions where I had to steal something from an outpost.

1st mission failed because I extracted the scanner and turned to "illegal" mode. I did not even started the scan and the NPC was not even facing at me directly. In less than 5 seconds I had the complete base on me with fireworks from everywhere.
They should at least give you a warning before reacting if you were not caught during the scan. Or, since this is a game, give at least a timer after that the alarm stops and I can try again.

2nd mission failed because a guard saw me through a wall and wanted to scan me. I was clean, so no reason for me to hide or run. But since he was behind the wall I didn't hear him calling me for the scan and then he started shooting me.
Video:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGNoN5Kdu4c


3rd mission failed again as soon as I pulled out my scanner. Again, I know it's illegal, but I was not even using it and I was crouching with the NPC not even facing at me (inside a building). In fact he turned at me already in full rage and attacking me (a regular employee, not a guard). When I stroll around with the gun the guards ask me to holster my weapon, they don't shoot immediately, the same should be done for the scanner if they don't catch you with the scan in progress.

Moreover there should be some way to retry the mission without completely losing it as soon as you make a minor mistake.
I have to say, a part from the servers disconnect, I'm finding very hard to get some fun from this game right now.
Every gaming session ends with frustration.

 

[smbell]

Moreover there should be some way to retry the mission without completely losing it as soon as you make a minor mistake.
I have to say, a part from the servers disconnect, I'm finding very hard to get some fun from this game right now.
Every gaming session ends with frustration.

I've started to just re-log after I mess up. As soon as you can, just shield up, run outside, jump on top of the building and hunker down while you wait for the 13 second exit to main menu timer. Then try again.

It's nearly impossible, for me at least, to learn the patterns and what to do to complete it when you get one chance to try a mission. Bonus... you might not ever get that mission again. Part of the enjoyment of the puzzle/mission is to learn and apply what you've learned to do it successfully.

They make that extremely difficult with the current C&P system.

 

[Ydiss]

I need to add the rules of infiltration to my sig I think.

NPCs' reaction works fine. But when you can literally see it say in plain English "Noncompliance" and then you don't comply... I get that it's not simple, it took a lot of time for me to learn everything (and I'm still learning settlements now) but come on, at least ask questions before proclaiming something is broken.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

It has literally been posted that you keep your gun in your pants or it's an illegal act, and you obviously knew that. (yeah, a pun there).
EDIT: I believe it's actually even in the first mission when you logged into Odyssey when it released and is explained. You did that mission, right?

They do, it's 5 seconds. I agree it's not much time and people panic so they don't get shot. I think 10 seconds would be so much better.

View attachment 230745
Literally from your own video. You stand still for a scan. Movement = non-compliance.

Re-read that sentence. Then again. And again. Again.

Check my title and read it again and again and again
I'm not saying that it's not working as intended or bugged, I'm saying that it needs a tuning because in the current balance it gest easily frustrating.
Why do I get a warning for a weapon and not for the scanner? What's the most harmful between the two?

Concerning my video, in fact, you only get that small message in the corner. The guard never said stop or wait. Why don't they take the big scan message in the center as we have in the ship? Do you really go around for a base constantly looking in that corner all the time? Moreover you see my reaction, as soon as I noticed the NPC I stopped and waiting. A smarter AI would've adapted or at lease asking if I intended to surrender to the scan (we have the surrender option since Morrowind....)

 

[photomankc]

View attachment 230745
Literally from your own video. You stand still for a scan. Movement = non-compliance.

They shouldn't attempt scans through walls and the reaction is over-done. Any movement after that instant is death. Simple to give a few steps leeway and if they keep moving or draw then light 'em up.

 

[Markanix]

I just visited a base and was running outside to get into a building. Didn't see the security NPC then saw the notification in the top left "You failed to submit to a securty scan". Next thing I have a ton of security NPCs and skimmers on me and blast me to bits This update is entriguing but sooo frustrating lol

I wish I had thought to do the relog thing

Edit: And now even though I paid all the fines when I go back to my ship I am still wanted and can't access anything at the station? WTH?

 

[Tiv]

Try to be sneaky and find some push at a tourism site.
Waste 20 minutes to finally be able to copy 02 clearance thingy, without getting caught, to enter some rooms. Find 1 Push in room 1.
Find a NPC in Room 2 yelling "you are not supposed to be here!".
Getting hunted through the whole building by that non-security-npc.
Finally run into security, calling all mates to kill you.

???

 

[Erei]

Try to be sneaky and find some push at a tourism site.
Waste 20 minutes to finally be able to copy 02 clearance thingy, without getting caught, to enter some rooms. Find 1 Push in room 1.
Find a NPC in Room 2 yelling "you are not supposed to be here!".
Getting hunted through the whole building by that non-security-npc.
Finally run into security, calling all mates to kill you.

???

I mean, if IRL you went into an hotel to look for drugs, stole security cards and entered uninvited inside an occupied room, I'm fairly certain it would get you in that kind of trouble.

 

[Tiv]

I mean, if IRL you went into an hotel to look for drugs, stole security cards and entered uninvited inside an occupied room, I'm fairly certain it would get you in that kind of trouble.

If you run into a medium with super telepathic skills, yes.
If you run into a criminal, he might start to hunt you.

But if you are in a hotel and a stranger mistakenly entering your room, do you pick the next weapon and hunting him through the whole hotel like a maniac? Is any security joining a maniac with a weapon hunting a random person?

 

[ferus]

There are issues that still persist from the Alpha and were never fixed (even though FDev claim they did).
Like the immediate flagging of items as stolen. Devs said they fixed it yet it's still present in the live version.
The same goes for NPCs hearing through walls. It's still in the live game and makes the game frustrating.

AI reactions and behaviour absolutely need tuning.

It's also not good that AI doesn't recognize the scale of a crime. Right now IF CRIME=TRUE THEN KILL. There is no inbetween.
And when you add the fact that NPCs do have a hive mind (even though FDev claims they don't) you have a recipe for frustrating gameplay.

I only do restore missions now and only those where there are no scavengers (which is also difficult to recognize because the threat level is still broken).
All restore missions are threat 4-5 but sometimes the settlement is empty and the game just doesn't bother telling you.

 

[sneakyc4]

Try to be sneaky and find some push at a tourism site.
Waste 20 minutes to finally be able to copy 02 clearance thingy, without getting caught, to enter some rooms. Find 1 Push in room 1.
Find a NPC in Room 2 yelling "you are not supposed to be here!".
Getting hunted through the whole building by that non-security-npc.
Finally run into security, calling all mates to kill you.

???

The game as it is, forces you to kill all NPCs first then loot.

 

[Vekt Ey'doom]

Half the people complain now that the AI is too sensitive, when it's changed, half the people will complain the AI is too dull.

Honestly, I enjoyed failing the missions or turning them into a bloody catastrophe bordering on genocide, as part of the learning curve. I feel myself getting slightly better, and finally got a bloodless high security heist done last night, and it was awesome. Better than anything I ever experienced in Horizons.

There are issues that still persist from the Alpha and were never fixed (even though FDev claim they did).
Like the immediate flagging of items as stolen. Devs said they fixed it yet it's still present in the live version.
The same goes for NPCs hearing through walls. It's still in the live game and makes the game frustrating.

AI reactions and behaviour absolutely need tuning.

It's also not good that AI doesn't recognize the scale of a crime. Right now IF CRIME=TRUE THEN KILL. There is no inbetween.
And when you add the fact that NPCs do have a hive mind (even though FDev claims they don't) you have a recipe for frustrating gameplay.

I only do restore missions now and only those where there are no scavengers (which is also difficult to recognize because the threat level is still broken).
All restore missions are threat 4-5 but sometimes the settlement is empty and the game just doesn't bother telling you.

I don't know if this is "Too Political" for this forum, but all law enforcement is predicated upon the threat of lethal violence. Elite just cuts to the chase. This isn't a repudiation of law enforcement, nor is it a commendation, it just is. If you do a petty crime like steal a stick of gum, and the police catch you, what happens if you don't surrender? They initiate violence against you during apprehension, what happens if you respond and defend yourself against said violence? They escalate to lethal violence.

So, in the sense of gameplay, there is no difference, since we cannot "Die" a lethal subdual is equal to a nonlethal subdual. Now, it would be a lot more immersive if there was the ability to surrender without violence, but from a gameplay perspective, you're still "Respawning" at the nearest detention center.

 

[Nullvektor]

It may be more of a mild irritant, but why is it that every NPC has to scan you as if they don't know who you are, but when you make ONE NPC mad at you, the ENTIRE BASE, including skimmers and turrets, knows who, where and what you are?

I'm just here to get somebody's mixtape out of their locker. I'm supposed to be here! I have authorization and everything! You can scan me! I'm not wanted, not armed and I'm not even carrying an e-breach! So I missed the text alert to halt, and that means I deserve a laser cannon death sentence?

At this point I'm just going to fire up my class 4 PAs, glass the entire facility, land and hurdle the piles of bodyparts to get this jerk's mixtape.

 

[ferus]

Half the people complain now that the AI is too sensitive, when it's changed, half the people will complain the AI is too dull.

Honestly, I enjoyed failing the missions or turning them into a bloody catastrophe bordering on genocide, as part of the learning curve. I feel myself getting slightly better, and finally got a bloodless high security heist done last night, and it was awesome. Better than anything I ever experienced in Horizons.


I don't know if this is "Too Political" for this forum, but all law enforcement is predicated upon the threat of lethal violence. Elite just cuts to the chase. This isn't a repudiation of law enforcement, nor is it a commendation, it just is. If you do a petty crime like steal a stick of gum, and the police catch you, what happens if you don't surrender? They initiate violence against you during apprehension, what happens if you respond and defend yourself against said violence? They escalate to lethal violence.

So, in the sense of gameplay, there is no difference, since we cannot "Die" a lethal subdual is equal to a nonlethal subdual. Now, it would be a lot more immersive if there was the ability to surrender without violence, but from a gameplay perspective, you're still "Respawning" at the nearest detention center.

Unfortunately in case of ED ANYTHING triggers a lethal reaction.

Didn't stop for a scan the moment you (almost inaudibly) get called? Get killed. But you don't get killed immediately for not stopping for a check the milisecond someone says so in real life. There are further warnings and non lethal measures taken first.

Crossed the restricted area with a mere centimetre of your body? Get killed. This also doesn't happen in real life. You get warned, you get escorted, you get detained. But not killed.
Take out your scanner? Get killed.
Take a copper wire? Get killed.

These are all extreme measures and Elite doesn't give you any leeway or any other option to resolve the matter. There should be options. And the AI hive mind needs to be solved.
The design is simply BAD right now.
Combine it with the buggy erratic and unpredictable AI and you have a recipe for an unhappy fanbase.