Elite Dangerous prides itself on its degree of realism and immersion. Meanwhile in Odyssey....

[Agrar Therenus]

I'm literally describing what I'm doing. I'm literally breaking and entering in a resort, for "cats data". Which are described as a meme with cats. To give them to an engineer to upgrade my stuff.

That kind of thing is a matter of mission item 'skins'. Indeed that particular example is a very bad choice indeed-- humour should not be a part of the mission itself, which supposed to be serious.
All kinds of silliness can be available on terminals or personal logs, but it should be something purely optional and not related to missions (it somewhat breaks immersion otherwise).

As far as magically respawning, well it is still a game and comprimises as far as being able to play in an effective way have to be made-- that is under the same catergory as FTL.

 

[babelfisch]

False. That is a made-up headcanon that the fans created to explain the gravity slowing. There is nothing in the game to back this up.

There doesn't need to be anything in the game because it's just common sense as far as sci-fi pseudo space physics go.
Fact: The FSD bends space.
Common sense: Bending space gets more difficult when it's not empty.
Proof: Our ships slow down near planets.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

I am just glad that you don't work for Frontier, otherwise there wouldn't be a game.

Oh we would. But we'd have one that makes sense.

I understand you though - you prefer the arcade nonsense and gross inconsistencies over realism. That's personal preference.
it does give the Game a certain charm... albeit IMHO not exactly the one that would match its original Kickstarter goals and advertising.

 

[babelfisch]

Oh we would. But we'd have one that makes sense.

I understand you though - you prefer the arcade nonsense and gross inconsistencies over realism. That's personal preference.
it does give the Game a certain charm... albeit IMHO not exactly the one that would match its original Kickstarter goals and advertising.

Wrong, personally I prefer a combination of realism and gameplay. Sometimes they get it right, I really like the flight model and the SciFi stuff like FSDs, neither are realistic but it's fiction after all. Sometimes they get it wrong. If we try to make everything as realistic as possible the gameplay would suffer though. Realistically, we wouldn't fight with space ships and lasers, we would use automated drones and missiles. Just using realism as an argument is very easy and cheap, I can criticise every game that isn't a 100% realistic simulation that way.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I can criticise every game that isn't a 100% realistic simulation that way.

Nobody wants to see Superman taking out the trash.

 

[Just]

Everybody knows a game that is painfully realistic.

It has great visuals & true surround sound,
but reward system is broken,
most of assets are unreachable for 99% of players,
although for most of the time spend in game they are grinding hard
while doing some boring activities
they hate more and more with time.

It has no respawn system,
no extra lifes,
no save system,
every mistake has permanent consequences
and the only subsystem that you can be sure it's always ready to kick in and never fails
is the one punishing you for breaking the rules / getting sloppy / not putting enough effort in the game.

I guess you already know what I am writing about.

So, if you are into extreme realism - thank you, but no thank you, I don't want to play another life simulator.

 

[Tikanderoga]

-Also, the little canister I use to store the space magic dust is unique, and I can only scan one species of plant at a time. Should I want to scan another plant, I'll have to dump the invisible space dust from my canister, by pushing very hard on the big red button (for real). Do note, however, that once fully scanned, the magic space dust is transformed into an invisible data thing, and I can store as many of those as I want.

Oh, and when scanned 3 samples, you push the same red button that would have purged it otherwise to transform it into magic data.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Everybody knows a game that is painfully realistic.

It has great visuals & true surround sound,
but reward system is broken,
most of assets are unreachable for 99% of players,
although for most of the time spend in game they are grinding hard
while doing some boring activities
they hate more and more with time.

It has no respawn system,
no extra lifes,
no save system,
every mistake has permanent consequences
and the only subsystem that you can be sure it's always ready to kick in and never fails
is the one punishing you for breaking the rules / getting sloppy / not putting enough effort in the game.

I guess you already know what I am writing about.

So, if you are into extreme realism - thank you, but no thank you, I don't want to play another life simulator.

Also, "Oops" isn't an acceptable excuse for shooting cops.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Wrong, personally I prefer a combination of realism and gameplay. Sometimes they get it right, I really like the flight model and the SciFi stuff like FSDs, neither are realistic but it's fiction after all. Sometimes they get it wrong. If we try to make everything as realistic as possible the gameplay would suffer though. Realistically, we wouldn't fight with space ships and lasers, we would use automated drones and missiles. Just using realism as an argument is very easy and cheap, I can criticise every game that isn't a 100% realistic simulation that way.

I've yet to see Gameplay suffer by replacing things that don't make any sense (within the Game's own logic) by things that make sense. It's rather the opposite.

Failing by its own logic is all that's currently happening.
The fix btw, is easy : label and rename all affected new collectibles/Mats and make them sound like they really are rare and elusive. Not for sale. Just change ASCII Strings on those new on-foot Materials accordingly.

For the classic Mats/Elements, it's way too late in that regard though.

 

[babelfisch]

I've yet to see Gameplay suffer by replacing things that don't make any sense (within the Game's own logic) by things that make sense. It's rather the opposite.

Failing by its own logic is all that's currently happening.
The fix btw, is easy : label and rename all affected new collectibles/Mats and make them sound like they really are rare and elusive. Not for sale. Just change ASCII Strings on those new on-foot Materials accordingly.

For the classic Mats/Elements, it's way too late in that regard though.

Ok, I'll bite.

One of your examples was the problem that we can trade with personal weapons but need to go to a weapon dealer to buy one. Some ideas:

1. Remove the commodity from the game.
2. Remove weapon dealers from the game.
3. Come up with a lore reason. I would guess that the guy who drives the truck for Heckler & Koch isn't allowed to simply take weapons from the cargo. So if he wants to own a gun, he still needs to buy one from an arms dealer. In Germany, weapons actually are registered.

Obviously you can now come up with a counter argument, that you could just steal the cargo. Now I come up with a counter argument again, that weapons in Elite have a safety mechanism and can only be used when they get unlocked for you. This would also explain why we can't use the weapons from dead enemies. Now you come up with a counter argument again, an engineer could simply bypass that restriction. And so on.
At some point you need to stop. Otherwise you don't get a game. That doesn't mean I am necessarily against that kind of stuff, it's just completely arbitrary because you could do it with pretty much every element of the game.

 

[Miller-UK]

I mean it's so realistic I'm wondering what's real at this point !

None of it, it's a game.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Ok, I'll bite.

One of your examples was the problem that we can trade with personal weapons but need to go to a weapon dealer to buy one. Some ideas:

1. Remove the commodity from the game.
2. Remove weapon dealers from the game.
3. Come up with a lore reason. I would guess that the guy who drives the truck for Heckler & Koch isn't allowed to simply take weapons from the cargo. So if he wants to own a gun, he still needs to buy one from an arms dealer. In Germany, weapons actually are registered.

Obviously you can now come up with a counter argument, that you could just steal the cargo. Now I come up with a counter argument again, that weapons in Elite have a safety mechanism and can only be used when they get unlocked for you. This would also explain why we can't use the weapons from dead enemies. Now you come up with a counter argument again, an engineer could simply bypass that restriction. And so on.
At some point you need to stop. Otherwise you don't get a game. That doesn't mean I am necessarily against that kind of stuff, it's just completely arbitrary because you could do it with pretty much every element of the game.

How about

4. Realize that we're not the Truck Driver but actually the owner of that very Cargo. All of it. It's ours, we can dump it into a star, sell or or airdrop it over a planet or in deep space.
5. Realize that we're now forced to come with a reason why 1 ton of .50cal Armour Piercing/High Explosive War Weapons and Miniguns are cheaper than 1 handheld pea shooter made of plastic.
6. Let's say those in the Cargo Canisters are Weapons not intended for Civilians maybe? Makes sense. Authorized Personnel only. That leaves only the Commodity pricing disparity.
7. Increase the prices of Personal Weapons and Battle Weapons way beyond personal Outfitting Weapon cost - or drop the price of these individual Weapons. As they cost more than several small Space Ships, logic dictates a very significant price reduction for all stock models.
8. Pre-Upgraded Weapons remain Premium Gear, just like Pre-Upgraded Suits... Hence, their very high cost can remain.

See, all problems solved, just by applying logic to the rat tail and removing the inconsistencies. It is not that difficult.
And I don't expect you to say "Well okay you were right all along".
This isn't about me. It's about some simple fact that this Game suffers from blatantly obvious inconsistencies. These just need some care by paying attention to detail, that's it.

 

[Erei]

That kind of thing is a matter of mission item 'skins'. Indeed that particular example is a very bad choice indeed-- humour should not be a part of the mission itself, which supposed to be serious.
All kinds of silliness can be available on terminals or personal logs, but it should be something purely optional and not related to missions (it somewhat breaks immersion otherwise).

I honestly think to make sense it should be changed at the core. Collecting duct tape and personal data from people's home to build a scope is beyond silly. It's not DayZ or 7 days to die.

As far as magically respawning, well it is still a game and comprimises as far as being able to play in an effective way have to be made-- that is under the same catergory as FTL.

I disagree. CZ should have been a separate mod like CQC, which is separate for a reason. You don't respawn in space CZ. You get to the rebuy screen and back to station.
Even including Odyssey, "respawning" involve a penalty. In horizon, rebuy, or lose the SRV (if you die in it). In odyssey, get back in orbit, or prison if you had fines. Then you have a specific game mode, where it's "nope don't care, infinite respawn lol".



As for people making fun about the fact that Elite always had "gamey" thing because it's a game and not reality. Most of it makes sense. Sure, you might find an absurdity here and there, and if you dig too deep, the strings start to show and the magician look at you funny. But it's not absurd, there is a certain level of "make believe". To the point devs went to the extra mile for that (long supercruise travel, docking animation, for about everything, rotating station....).

We are not fighting dragons in space while mounting our unicorn and throwing fireballs. Sure, we have a silly canopy, but it's not that stupid if you take the "wwii" in space theme. And you can always make believable canon as to why (ecm are so powerful in that time, that without proper vision you wouldn't be able to see ships). Also, most of it is done to make a fun game, because there is little alternative to do. They could have find others ways in Odyssey. Have us break into secured compound for "prototype" schematics instead of a resort for cat meme, for example. 5minutes using my brain and I'm not even paid for that.


Now, it can reach borderlands level of silly. Like when I died in a spa, trying to steal cat meme for an engineer to upgrade my gun. Reminded me of that mission in Borderlands 2 where I'm sent to the underground to find an "important missing cargo" for Marcus, and it happened to be nudes from Moxxi, that were guarded by raiders who happened to like those nudes. At least Marcus dialogue was funny.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

That's because we don't travel in normal space when in supercruise.
We actually shorten space in front of us and don't travel fast.
Gravity is disrupting the process which is why we slow down.

Slingshot manoeuvres are not possible in supercruise.

Indeed. That’s actually one of the few counterintuitive things in Elite that has actually made sense to me from the beginning.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

Nobody wants to see Superman taking out the trash.

You’ll have to forgive me, I’m a bit dim sometimes. When you said “taking out the trash”, you meant “taking a dump”, right?

Superman taking a dump, right?

 

[babelfisch]

How about

4. Realize that we're not the Truck Driver but actually the owner of that very Cargo. All of it. It's ours, we can dump it into a star, sell or or airdrop it over a planet or in deep space.
5. Realize that we're now forced to come with a reason why 1 ton of .50cal Armour Piercing/High Explosive War Weapons and Miniguns are cheaper than 1 handheld pea shooter made of plastic.
6. Let's say those in the Cargo Canisters are Weapons not intended for Civilians maybe? Makes sense. Authorized Personnel only. That leaves only the Commodity pricing disparity.
7. Increase the prices of Personal Weapons and Battle Weapons way beyond personal Outfitting Weapon cost - or drop the price of these individual Weapons. As they cost more than several small Space Ships, logic dictates a very significant price reduction for all stock models.
8. Pre-Upgraded Weapons remain Premium Gear, just like Pre-Upgraded Suits... Hence, their very high cost can remain.

See, all problems solved, just by applying logic to the rat tail and removing the inconsistencies. It is not that difficult.
And I don't expect you to say "Well okay you were right all along".
This isn't about me. It's about some simple fact that this Game suffers from blatantly obvious inconsistencies. These just need some care by paying attention to detail, that's it.

Yes, obviously I am not going to say you were right all along because it's not the point.
The point is, I could make the exact same argument about any part of the game. And not just that, I could make that argument about pretty much any game that exists. Point & Click adventures are usually the worst by the way...
I am not saying that you are wrong, there are inconsistencies and I guess some of them could be improved. Not fixed though because someone else would just come up with a different reason why something is inconsistent. If I wanted to waste my time I am pretty sure I could come up with something that makes your (good) suggestions above inconsistent. I am not against making the game more consistent, the question is where do we draw the line?

 

[Deleted member 115407]

You’ll have to forgive me, I’m a bit dim sometimes. When you said “taking out the trash”, you meant “taking a dump”, right?

Superman taking a dump, right?

Well no... I just meant like taking the garbage out from the house to the garbage bin.

But for the record, nobody wants to see him taking a dump either.... unless you're into that sort of thing. Which is cool... but still gross, not gonna lie.

 

[dekot]

Wrong, personally I prefer a combination of realism and gameplay. Sometimes they get it right, I really like the flight model and the SciFi stuff like FSDs, neither are realistic but it's fiction after all. Sometimes they get it wrong. If we try to make everything as realistic as possible the gameplay would suffer though. Realistically, we wouldn't fight with space ships and lasers, we would use automated drones and missiles. Just using realism as an argument is very easy and cheap, I can criticise every game that isn't a 100% realistic simulation that way.

People weren't talking about flight models and pseudo physics, the OP was talking about cat memes. Are YOU fine with having missions where you break into secure complexes, probably murdering a few people along the way, to steal a cat meme? Do you think that fits the vibe that the game strives for?

 

[Injerin]

OFC it's a game, and a modicum of "gamey" stuff is expected, but the entire dlc is a gamey thing. We have a team deathmatch straight from the first multiplayer Doom game. We steal random commodities from homes like you do in a zombie survival game.
It's nonsensical. That's from the same company who don't want to reduce supercruise time because it would be "unrealistic". Which added an animation (now gone) when switching ship in the shipyard, for realism sake. Same for SLF docking and SRV.

You are Major @2240L3 for real?

 

[Agrar Therenus]

People weren't talking about flight models and pseudo physics, the OP was talking about cat memes. Are YOU fine with having missions where you break into secure complexes, probably murdering a few people along the way, to steal a cat meme? Do you think that fits the vibe that the game strives for?

They have to link the crafting into ground missions somehow. Of course I totally agree all the silly comedy stuff needs to go, but surely loot in some fashion needs to be one method of acquiring the parts and schematics?