Relax and rebalance a few orbital flight/glide parameters.

Hi, Overall the orbital flight and glide mechanics are good on approach and have some nice tactile feedback, but they can sometimes feel very arbitrary and punitive when you are trying to accomplish anything short of the standard 'descend to port' routine. It's great how you can extend the glide by 'keeping your nose up'. And it keeps you from face planting the earth when you pitch too low. The problems become obvious when taking off for general planetary exploration, or point to point travel on a single planet. In summary, its fairly hostile to 'near surface' planetary travel and forces a player back to a high speed/orbit to achieve anything.

PROBLEM:
Frame Shift Escape Vector

The need to always turn your ship 90deg up when you really want to fly closer to the horizon is off putting. It makes sense at very low altitudes only.

SOLUTION:
The escape vector becomes progressively closer to the horizon with altitude. It is just simply too high. There are some 'FS mass lock' etc mechanics here, but the altitude needs to be pushed down. You can travel out of mass lock at a gentle 10deg angle, and still need to pitch vertically in order to actually engage FS. Maybe those two should be aligned.

PROBLEM: HUD Pitch red zone
I get it. If we wanted to face plant a planet in FS we would all just play FE2 ;). The HUD red zone protects us from this, especially as we approach at high speeds. But when taking off and engaging FS in those early moments, it becomes an unforgiving exercise in not dipping your head too low, lest you drop FS and start over. This is compounded by the fact that this is exactly the natural action to do once you engage FS (unless you are leaving the planet), with your ship pointing up at the escape vector, the next move is to look at that planet you are hoping to traverse.

SOLUTION: Simply add a warning flashy/sound and timer when we dip into red. Maybe give us 2-5sec depending on how close we are to the ground. Extra depth, more fluid and sensory and allowing flight mechanics to not feel literally tied to a line on the screen.

PROBLEM: Orbital Flight (HUD blue zone)
Another good mechanic on approach, but punishing when climbing to altitude. When entering FS the orbital flight band from a low speed/alt its usually the case you want to go faster than your initial attempt and need to climb. Pitching up of course results in an immediate slowdown. So this becomes another excercise in point your ship vertically in order to achieve anything. It will pay dividends of course as the extra altitude will greatly speed up the orbital flight band. But why this zig zag guess work?

SOLUTION: The HUD 'blue zone' should have a much more progressive falloff when pitching up, especially at lower altitudes. There should be no speed penalty at all for pointing away from a planet, and no need to fly in a staircase pattern.

And a mention for 'Too low for glide'
Altitude cutoff too high. You can be too low for glide at an altitude significant higher than a typical glide on entry might begin.


I understand there are some conservative choices here to make sure players do not head butt planets, murder the game engine (with high speed/low alt flight) and also some loading related aspects. But the above suggestions are largely about balancing for feel, than doing something new. Cheers!
 
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Hi rcdcce o7

PROBLEM:
Frame shift Escape Vector

The need to always turn your ship 90deg up when you really want to fly closer to the horizon is off putting. It makes sense at very low altitudes only.
The escape vector is only a guide. You can exit to supercruise at 40-45 degrees as soon as you leave mass lock.
If you zero throttle as you exit masslock, wait for SC to charge and then boost to engage you can be in SC well under 10km altitude.

PROBLEM: HUD Pitch red zone
I get it. If we wanted to face plant a planet in FS we would all just play FE2 ;). The HUD red zone protects us from this, especially as we approach at high speeds. But when taking off and engaging FS in those early moments, it becomes an unforgiving exercise in not dipping your head too low, lest you drop FS and start over. This is impounded by the fact that this is exactly the natural action to do once you engage FS (unless you are leaving the planet), with your ship pointing up at the escape vector, the next move is to look at that planet you are hoping to traverse.
Understand the frustration here, I've done a fair bit of planetary scouting in low SC avoiding the red zone.
I do like your suggestion about a grace period before pulling us out, I've hit that bump a good few times
o7

I scout by using a headlook setup and a cockpit with a good downward view, allows for slow altitude gain while being able to take a good look around.

PROBLEM: Orbital Flight (HUD blue zone)
Another good mechanic on approach, but punishing when climbing to altitude. When entering the FS orbital flight band from a low speed/alt its usually the case you want to go faster than your initial attempt and the need to climb. Pitching up of course results in an immediate slowdown. So this becomes another excercise in point your ship vertically in order to achieve anything. It will pay dividends of course as the extra altitude will greatly speed up the orbital flight band. But why this zig zag guess work?
Again I understand the frustration, sorta experience it with this myself, but I also like the way gravity affects SC. It allows for some cool gravity braking effects when approaching orbital stations and surfaces.

The 'blue zone' was added to speed up planetary traversal, but if they changed how fast you gained altitude it'd be a much bigger change in how gravity affects SC overall.

And a mention for 'Too low for glide'
Altitude cutoff too high. You can be too low for glide at an altitude significant higher than a typical glide on entry might begin.
Never experienced this myself, I'd suggest a bug report.
 
Hi rcdcce o7


The escape vector is only a guide. You can exit to supercruise at 40-45 degrees as soon as you leave mass lock.
If you zero throttle as you exit masslock, wait for SC to charge and then boost to engage you can be in SC well under 10km altitude.


Understand the frustration here, I've done a fair bit of planetary scouting in low SC avoiding the red zone.
I do like your suggestion about a grace period before pulling us out, I've hit that bump a good few times
o7

I scout by using a headlook setup and a cockpit with a good downward view, allows for slow altitude gain while being able to take a good look around.


Again I understand the frustration, sorta experience it with this myself, but I also like the way gravity affects SC. It allows for some cool gravity braking effects when approaching orbital stations and surfaces.

The 'blue zone' was added to speed up planetary traversal, but if they changed how fast you gained altitude it'd be a much bigger change in how gravity affects SC overall.


Never experienced this myself, I'd suggest a bug report.
Hi Sgurr. That is some reasonable feedback. I'll clarify a couple of points.

I have observed escape velocity is a guide rather than literal, although overheating tends you make you highly compliant with it if you engage too early :) Maybe that is the real issue here rather than the HUD indicator. I will have to try the zero thottle-boost.

On the red zone warning timer. If I had to choose one of these changes that would be it.

On the blue zone, I was not suggesting it have any influence over climb rate, only that your orbital velocity should not be throttled for gently pitching away from the orbital plane. I guess they are a bit hard to separate but I think the curve needs to be gentler than it is now.

Cheers

o7
 
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I have observed escape velocity is a guide rather than literal, although overheating tends you make you highly compliant with it if you engage too early :) Maybe that is the real issue here rather than the HUD indicator. I will have to try the zero thottle-boost.
Ah ok, I've never had problems with overheating

On the red zone warning timer. If I had to choose one of these changes that would be it.
It's a good idea

On the blue zone, I was not suggesting it have any influence over climb rate, only that your forward velocity should not be throttled for gently pitching away from the orbital plane.
Yeah, I misunderstood what you were saying, get it now and yes, good idea o7
 
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