A Critique on the Current State of Exobiology

[Burstar1]

So I've picked flowers for long enough now that I feel I have a handle on what it's all about although I am the first to admit there is much I haven't seen or may have missed in what I have. Additionally, my perspective is that of someone with no experience in software development or the challenges/limitations involved in programming (nor am I concerned with it as this is about the user experience, not the work involved to manufacture it).

As a long time fan of the Elite franchise and someone that is continually impressed with how FDev works miracles via procedural generation, I was initially disappointed that galactic flora was hand crafted but as usual I became impressed with the artistic craftsmanship and diversity in the genera. What this change towards using explicit models does, though, is create mysteries as to why similar species are found throughout the galaxy. Is this panspermia via xenopogenic seeding or through more mundane mechanisms that are just extremely common (ie: have these particular genera somehow specialised in galactic transportation?) Is life on Earth related to them at all? These questions and more beg to be answered and herein lies my first hope:

It would be nice if the data provided in the Codex was more detailed. If all we are doing as Exobiologists is genetic sampling then details on the basic chemistry involved (ie: do they use RNA, DNA or some other novel chemistry to store their base code?) seems like something that would do much for immersion. More believably, a minimal report on the lifeform's basic properties based on their appearance and apparent (at least to me) terrain (and/or environmental?) requirements, and on their lifecycle would be very much appreciated to the many nerds among your players. At the very least, as Vista genomics collects more data and the research body grows, CGs and/or Galnet articles on these mysteries are highly anticipated events that I look forward to in the future.

In the meantime I do want to point out an area in this gameplay that could use some improvement; specifically, the heat map. Firstly it would be nice if it was accessible without requiring the DSS interface and would be even better if you didn't need to be in supercruise to see it. Additionally, it would be nice to choose its colour scheme (for those of us that are colour blind to one extent or another) and it really should be much higher contrast.

For example:

Furthermore, a source of significant consternation with the heatmap is it seems to be showing us the seed probability, but, there are clearly additional confounding factors with where the organism(s) actually are found. It is quite possible, nay probable, that the heatmap will say that an organism has a high concentration in a specific area (has the 'brightest' colouration) but because the terrain is rocky, gravelly, or sloped (in the case of bacteria only found on smooth flat terrain), or because it's being outcompeted by another organism it is nowhere to be found. I cannot overstate how problematic this is. There are numerous examples of a planet coated in blue on the heatmap, but because the generator gives the planet a ubiquitous spiky or rocky texture, the organism is nowhere to be found.

Here is my most egregious example, but bacteria is a more common way this is seen:

It would be really nice if instead of using the seed possibility value for the heatmap it actually displayed the organisms concentration in an area. Alternatively, using the heatmap as it is now, but have it also filter out invalid terrain (and maybe even also areas that have a competing organism). Furthermore, while I'm thinking about it, the organisms terrain and/or environmental preferences would be a great addition to the Codex data.

To conclude, exobiology in Oddysey is a wonderfully relaxing and interesting addition to the game if certain unnecessary frustrations are eliminated and you capitalize on its opportunity for world building. Thank you for your time.

;tldr Exobiology concept good, Codex should have more relevant details for what you're doing (genetic chemistry details, lifecycle), CGs and Galnet articles for world building would be appreciated, Heatmap can be improved both in visibility and utility

 

[photomankc]

Yes. I also actually do enjoy the search to some extent but not when I end up driving 15 minutes to find that 2nd sample. I try to work out what terrain conditions it likes and such but I know that filter is a lie. I have no idea why they decided to eliminate the 'heat' from the heatmap but it really kinda sucks. You could previously find nice concentrations of life and now you basically RNG it. Even if they didn't want to go back to it they still could filter out the really low probability locations and still keep the single color.

My other gripe is the "ALL" filter. It really should be labeled "ANY". It's not locations that would have all types of life present, it's locations where any of the types can be found. I'd really like an "ALL" filter that worked as I'd expect. That all of the planetary lifeforms may be located in these zones. If that turns out to be nowhere on a world, that's fine, but if it was there it would make that spot prime real-estate to land in.

 

[torloisk]

Thanks for the OP and the 2nd poster to point this out. They describe what keeps me from doing more exobiology. In its current state it's boring.

One point I would like to add: Enable the scanner to keep probes of different plants at the same time.

 

[photomankc]

I'd like to see the better levels of suit come with more sample storage capacity. Would make it a lot more fun.

I'd also like a few dangerous lifeforms. Things that don't like being sampled or don't like being approached. Although you could make the argument that they would not really be like that since not many threats. Still think it would add a little to it if once in a while something you ran into was a threat out there.

 

[CmdrKull]

I'm ok with the DSS map being dodgy, if it gives us an area where that form of life is possible, it doesn't matter to me that possible=/= probable.


BUT please for the love of all that is good, make it more reasonable to find the bacteria! Give us a mode switch on the SRV, so that instead of tuning into magnetism it can tune into selected forms of life. I don't care if it doesn't make sense! I don't want to spend an hour (not an exaggeration) searching for a puddle of bacterial growth so my inner-completionist will quiet down for the night.


Bacteria: Hide and Seek Galactic Champion, 1,000,000,000 years running!

 

[photomankc]

I'm ok with the DSS map being dodgy, if it gives us an area where that form of life is possible, it doesn't matter to me that possible=/= probable.

Sure it does. Otherwise you'd just land anywhere on the planet and start walking.


I'm not saying it has to land me right onto the pumpkin patch but at least increase the probability level to be in the blob. I don't mind the hunt and really want to keep it but right now the zones are really overly broad. I do agree, I would also like to see some kind of bio sensor for the wave scanner. It doesn't need to differentiate but at least give you some BVR guidance

 

[Burstar1]

I'm ok with the DSS map being dodgy, if it gives us an area where that form of life is possible, it doesn't matter to me that possible=/= probable.


BUT please for the love of all that is good, make it more reasonable to find the bacteria! Give us a mode switch on the SRV, so that instead of tuning into magnetism it can tune into selected forms of life. I don't care if it doesn't make sense! I don't want to spend an hour (not an exaggeration) searching for a puddle of bacterial growth so my inner-completionist will quiet down for the night.


Bacteria: Hide and Seek Galactic Champion, 1,000,000,000 years running!

There's "dodgy" and then there's what it is atm. There are planets with 5 different organisms but one of the heatmaps is empty. It might be a bug, but I can live with this oversight. The issue is that there are planets literally covered 3/4 in blue but NO organism because of the mismatch between where it is allowed to be and where seeding algorithm chose to place it. Sometimes this Venn diagram doesn't overlap and this results in an hour of fruitless running around.

I agree that it isn't a good idea to have a pixel accurate heatmap, (although needing to sample 3 well separated exemplars is enough running around for one entry, especially if the organism is rare, so I wouldn't mind if it was). It should definitely put you in the right areas though.

Edit: something like this is what it should look like imo

The secret to Bacteria farming is to just do it in your ship. You move faster and the overhead view makes the grease stains easy to spot.

 

[mg0]

Thought I might take a look-see at Exobiology whilst exploring in the black.
Couldn't find a step by step tutorial anywhere so decided to apply for help here.
As I understand it.......

1) Use the DSS to find locations - how (exactly) ?????
2) Below 100m use eyeball to find fauna - nothing found so far
3) Disembark ship/srv to scan (green) plants
4) Advance 1000m to next green plantation... Rinse & Repeat until all locations found

Being out'black this would be a nice 2nd payroll - if I cold master it.

Please help!

 

[photomankc]

1) Use the DSS to find locations - how (exactly) ?????
2) Below 100m use eyeball to find fauna - nothing found so far
3) Disembark ship/srv to scan (green) plants
4) Advance 1000m to next green plantation... Rinse & Repeat until all locations found

1.) DSS is a fire-group item. Set it up as you would a weapon. Approach a planet that the scanner has indicated biological life on (I'd suggest greater than 2 varieties) make sure you are in "Analysis Mode" When the planet is close to the size of the center reticle slow down to idle. Fire probes and watch coverage to determine how to cover the most surface per probe. Once it tells you it's complete the surface will change to show blue areas on the planet. There are keybinds to switch filters for the type of life you want to hunt, I'd not suggest hunting bacteria. I would try to land in flatter areas highlighted in blue as so far that tends to be better for finding space lettuce. There are NO GRADIENTS TO THE FILTER. Any variation in color or darkness right now is the terrain, not anything to do with more plants.

2.) If it's really scattered then yes, fly low and slow and hunt for the lumps. Depending on your performance and settings though this may prove harder than it would seem. I usually just drive the SRV and hunt down samples. If the views are interesting I might go walking instead. You'll need to be landed in a location that has been blue highlighted to find anything. Just flying over planets is not going to cut it. I'd use the SRV first and then see if you can see the plants you just scanned from the air following the SRV trail. If not then you're never going to see them from the air with however you're setup.

3.) Yep.

4.) 1000M is not necessary on all of them, not by a long shot. Some might want several hundred meters but most are pretty short distance to get the additional samples. Different ones do seem to like different distances though. Still I'd just drive a good ways and try the next sample, not travel 1KM each time.


Keep in mind once you sample one thing you have to complete all 3 to go on to the next or you loose the previous incomplete samples. It's stupid and punishing in dense areas but it's the way it is right now. Don't start with the coolest looking but rarest variety.

 

[Jpotter]

4.) 1000M is not necessary on all of them, not by a long shot. Some might want several hundred meters but most are pretty short distance to get the additional samples. Different ones do seem to like different distances though. Still I'd just drive a good ways and try the next sample, not travel 1KM each time.

FYI - you can look in the codex and it says the distance you need to travel based on the category. They call it the "Clonal Colony Range"
i.e. - Bacterium is 500m, Aleoida is 150m, Cactoida is 300m, etc.

 

[mg0]

1.) DSS is a fire-group item. Set it up as you would a weapon. Approach a planet that the scanner has indicated biological life on (I'd suggest greater than 2 varieties) make sure you are in "Analysis Mode" When the planet is close to the size of the center reticle slow down to idle. Fire probes and watch coverage to determine how to cover the most surface per probe. Once it tells you it's complete the surface will change to show blue areas on the planet. There are keybinds to switch filters for the type of life you want to hunt, I'd not suggest hunting bacteria. I would try to land in flatter areas highlighted in blue as so far that tends to be better for finding space lettuce. There are NO GRADIENTS TO THE FILTER. Any variation in color or darkness right now is the terrain, not anything to do with more plants.

2.) If it's really scattered then yes, fly low and slow and hunt for the lumps. Depending on your performance and settings though this may prove harder than it would seem. I usually just drive the SRV and hunt down samples. If the views are interesting I might go walking instead. You'll need to be landed in a location that has been blue highlighted to find anything. Just flying over planets is not going to cut it. I'd use the SRV first and then see if you can see the plants you just scanned from the air following the SRV trail. If not then you're never going to see them from the air with however you're setup.

3.) Yep.

4.) 1000M is not necessary on all of them, not by a long shot. Some might want several hundred meters but most are pretty short distance to get the additional samples. Different ones do seem to like different distances though. Still I'd just drive a good ways and try the next sample, not travel 1KM each time.


Keep in mind once you sample one thing you have to complete all 3 to go on to the next or you loose the previous incomplete samples. It's stupid and punishing in dense areas but it's the way it is right now. Don't start with the coolest looking but rarest variety.

FYI - you can look in the codex and it says the distance you need to travel based on the category. They call it the "Clonal Colony Range"
i.e. - Bacterium is 500m, Aleoida is 150m, Cactoida is 300m, etc.

Thank you BOTH very much for your interest.. If I may just push a little further!!

So the DSS doesn't actually pinpoint anything here, it just maps the globe as normal resulting in the blue zones being visible- yes?
Then I have to fly low and slow, and/or get in the SRV and look for the plants!! - but my SRV w/scanner doesn't report bio-signals E'rhmmm
Now, I understand our frustration with the FDevs

 

[photomankc]

Thank you BOTH very much for your interest.. If I may just push a little further!!

So the DSS doesn't actually pinpoint anything here, it just maps the globe as normal resulting in the blue zones being visible- yes?
Then I have to fly low and slow, and/or get in the SRV and look for the plants!! - but my SRV w/scanner doesn't report bio-signals E'rhmmm
Now, I understand our frustration with the FDevs

Correct. No Bio POIs. So you will be needing to search. I've not found it overly difficult outside the bacteria colonies. I was doing it on night one without any Alpha background. In general the blue area represents terrain where the generator will seed the RNG to place Biology. However some terrain is invalid despite the seeding generator saying it could be there so I try to mostly look on flatter ground. Some stuff will grow in glades on mountains too but more seem to need less rocky or disturbed terrain.

 

[mg0]

Correct. No Bio POIs. So you will be needing to search. I've not found it overly difficult outside the bacteria colonies. I was doing it on night one without any Alpha background. In general the blue area represents terrain where the generator will seed the RNG to place Biology. However some terrain is invalid despite the seeding generator saying it could be there so I try to mostly look on flatter ground. Some stuff will grow in glades on mountains too but more seem to need less rocky or disturbed terrain.

Many thanks for your time and patience, God speed Commander!!

 

[Burstar1]

Many thanks for your time and patience, God speed Commander!!

Just to add my observations: I prefer the rims of craters as they typically have a good mix of flat, smooth, sloped terrain and so much can be easily found there. Those that don't like crater areas are usually a quick 2 minute flight away from the site of the ancient impact.

My advice is to fly low and slow to spot the bacteria (almost always one of the bunch) from above. Strata are also easy to spot doing this. I tend to only use my ship unless the terrain is difficult to land in or I'm having trouble seeing flora I know is there (Tussock are hard to spot from the air unless you're scraping the ground).

 

[Burstar1]

Oh, and here's a planet with an even better example of how bad this problem can be:
Schadgae AM-L c8-0 4
Bacteria only organism and the heatmap is literally 100% over ONLY rugged mountainous terrain. If you're in the area feel free to try and find them. I'd love to see the video proof just to be sure I'm not an idiot. Good luck.

 

[mg0]

Oh, and here's a planet with an even better example of how bad this problem can be:
Schadgae AM-L c8-0 4
Bacteria only organism and the heatmap is literally 100% over ONLY rugged mountainous terrain. If you're in the area feel free to try and find them. I'd love to see the video proof just to be sure I'm not an idiot. Good luck.

Thanks for your comments, sorry for the delay.... Still no Bio's to report @ 30k ly from Sol - maybe they never got this far out.
Anyways, I've a long trip ahead so I'll keep looking as I go - they might even improve the process !!!!

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Thought I might take a look-see at Exobiology whilst exploring in the black.
Couldn't find a step by step tutorial anywhere so decided to apply for help here.
As I understand it.......

1) Use the DSS to find locations - how (exactly) ?????
2) Below 100m use eyeball to find fauna - nothing found so far
3) Disembark ship/srv to scan (green) plants
4) Advance 1000m to next green plantation... Rinse & Repeat until all locations found

Being out'black this would be a nice 2nd payroll - if I cold master it.

Please help!

I've started a guide and am more than happy to add to it for specific species/techniques to help others.

Guide / Tutorial - Odyssey Biological and Geological Guide

I have seen so many questions asked again and again in this forum I thought I would put together a guide on what you can expect and how you can find it. Biology What: Odyssey contains a wide variety of biology that can be sampled. For you to take samples, you will need a Artemis suit and a...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Burstar1]

I want to formally apologize to all the players out there that may consider doing the Exobiology game loop now or in the future.

I had hoped FDev would understand my message as "the DSS Overlay lies and this is very frustrating. Here's proof:" and instead interpreted it to mean "Fungoid life makes the broken DSS overlay too obvious so we better make it so you need to squint to see them too".

 

[Zeedy]

This area of the game could really use some attention regarding the heatmap issues, i agree.
The ability to carry partial samples of more than one species would be a huge bonus as i find it a massive pain carrying one at a time.
Some exo-biology missions with rewards would be nice.
When you think about it there's a lot of really cool possibilities in this area yet to be realised.
As soon as i've finished grinding out the stuff for this suit upgrade i'm off out to the black for a sightsee trip.

 

[Vi7ER]

Interesting to understand how it is the overlay map doesn't match up to what's on the surface. Seeding vs plant specific terrain requirements not matching up. Thanks for that info!!

I can see them fixing that eventually. Seems like a bug.

But will exobiology ever amount to anymore then what we have now??

The existing record of unfinished promising concepts introduced over the years would suggest not. But here's hoping coz I really like this feature and the OP and others have got great ideas on how it could develop.