FD: Look what I have invested in you so far.

Maybe so. I didn't "buy" Elite though originally - I backed it to help ensure it got made in the first place. So that's where we differ
It did get made, so thanks for that


Maybe because part of that £750 Kickstarter pledge was to be part of the "Design Discussion Forum" (DDF) which we were always led to believe was having a "vote on development" as you put it.
Sounds like it until

With the tacit and explicit understanding that it was always Frontier's game to do with as they wished.
So not really a decision vote but more of a suggestion and feedback forum with a more serious name attached to it.

I can understand where you’re coming from. Your case is very different from OPs and I can understand your frustration.
 

Deleted member 110222

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Can we agree on different perspectives?
In this case, no. Because purchase is not investment. There is no in-between. Opinions on definitions do not matter.

You don't get far in debates by making up meanings for words that have existed for centuries.
 
So not really a decision vote but more of a suggestion and feedback forum with a more serious name attached to it.

I can understand where you’re coming from. Your case is very different from OPs and I can understand your frustration.

Yep. What would usually happen is the following:

1) Frontier post their design ideas for a particular area of the game.
2) Everyone piled in and told them exactly what they thought & how to make it better.
3) Frontier would post revisions based on that feedback, or just ignore us (as was their want).

About the only good thing that actually came out of the DDF was supercruise. FDev's original idea was to have a point and click POI system for flying your ship. Which was universally hated and panned, so they (to their credit) went to great effort to come up with a much better system. SC has its critics, but it's a million times better than what they were planning to give us.

It's not that frustrating nowadays. It was years ago and I'm over it. More of a missed opportunity for FDev, because if the DDF were still actively involved to this day, I'm certain Odyssey would have turned out a far more fleshed out & appealing product. Same with multicrew, fleet carriers, Powerplay, etc etc. 🤷‍♀️
 
About the only good thing that actually came out of the DDF was supercruise. FDev's original idea was to have a point and click POI system for flying your ship. Which was universally hated and panned, so they (to their credit) went to great effort to come up with a much better system. SC has its critics, but it's a million times better than what they were planning to give us.

That's kinda funny. Supercruise is the line that places elite as a flight simulator or rebel galaxy outlaw. Probably turned out worse for frontier. While they wouldn't have any long term sim players, they would have had a much more casual kbm crowd and elite probably would have been closer to mainstream. Who knows they could have justified spending much more money on it if it was a more casual game. The other side is they also couldn't have gotten away with half baking literally everything they do for a more casual crowd.. Fun to imagine from your story anyway.

.. I bet they regret that one decision most of all :)
 
In this case, no. Because purchase is not investment. There is no in-between. Opinions on definitions do not matter.

You don't get far in debates by making up meanings for words that have existed for centuries.
A friend of mine @VicTic once said, "you can call me a pot as long as you don't put me in the oven"
Meaning words don't mean much.

Is it investment? No.
Is the effect similar? Maybe.
Can the word be used to describe the intentions? Why not.

Or maybe it is because I am no native speaker.
 

Deleted member 110222

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A friend of mine @VicTic once said, "you can call me a pot as long as you don't put me in the oven"
Meaning words don't mean much.

Is it investment? No.
Is the effect similar? Maybe.
Can the word be used to describe the intentions? Why not.

Or maybe it is because I am no native speaker.
Fair enough.

Of course, up to this point your writing has not really given that away. Many, many native speakers also misuse words.

So I will take that statement with the caveat that I half suspect you're backtracking yourself.

My point is, you now know better.
 
That's kinda funny. Supercruise is the line that places elite as a flight simulator or rebel galaxy outlaw. Probably turned out worse for frontier. While they wouldn't have any long term sim players, they would have had a much more casual kbm crowd and elite probably would have been closer to mainstream. Who knows they could have justified spending much more money on it if it was a more casual game. The other side is they also couldn't have gotten away with half baking literally everything they do for a more casual crowd.. Fun to imagine from your story anyway.

.. I bet they regret that one decision most of all :)

They were trying to solve the technical challenge of turning an open world space game into one that would work over P2P networking and multiplayer. That's where the POI system came from, and why were told we couldn't have free movement. The other argument they used was that space was a) big and b) mostly empty, so there was no "need" to have us able to fly to any point in space.

As I said, to their credit, they somehow managed to solve all of these technical issues & it was the defining moment of the DDF and probably the game itself. The E: D flight model is still held up as being the best in the genre - and even though the likes of X4 and NMS are fundamentally better games in every other way, the flight model is the thing that keeps being brought up as a reason to either stick with Elite or why those other games aren't as good.

They've gone full casual since though. Odyssey was never aimed at Elite players, and even discounting the bugs & lack of optimisation / finishing development, there are highly questionable design decisions made throughout that needed a group of players who actually play the game and care about it to help Frontier. I don't believe that whoever thought the UI was a good design has ever actually played the game. Same with the plant scanning, and a bunch of other things.

Missed opportunity, but it's too late, and it's too bad.
 
Looks like I missed the "or else" part and it's now deleted.

But I'm a bit confused. Didn't you show little sympathy for people experiencing issues with Odyssey just a few days ago? What changed to make you "switch sides", the lack of VR plans?
 

Deleted member 110222

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Using the term 'investment' for a game, at a stretch, could be applied to our time - we invested time in it, in the hope to get enjoyment back out of it.

Doesn't really work that way when it comes to money though.
Ultimately, that's only an investment in your own life, anyway.
 
Looks like I missed the "or else" part and it's now deleted.

But I'm a bit confused. Didn't you show little sympathy for people experiencing issues with Odyssey just a few days ago? What changed to make you "switch sides", the lack of VR plans?
Yes, I had it deleted. It was too much.
I still have sympathy. More love for the game.
It hurts at the moment.
 

Deleted member 110222

D
Looks like I missed the "or else" part and it's now deleted.

But I'm a bit confused. Didn't you show little sympathy for people experiencing issues with Odyssey just a few days ago? What changed to make you "switch sides", the lack of VR plans?
I guess now that something personally affects him, it is time to go Anti-FD.
 
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