Iguanas, Caimans, Snapping Turtles - Exhibit or Habitat or Both?

[NZFanatic]

I've seen a lot of discussion around the iguanas, and around the potential of snapping turtles coming to the game, and in the past there has been discussion around Cuvier's dwarf caiman, and whether these animals ought to be exhibit animals or habitat animals. I thought I'd create a thread on the subject and share an idea.

Another thing everyone has wanted for a long time is some more variety in exhibit sizes. For the sake of this discussion I'd propose an additional larger exhibit in a 4x8m size, so the same width as the current one but twice as long. The reason I'd stick to a 4m grid is because currently that is the smallest increment of path we can use (excepting the queues, but at the moment they don't count), and the exhibits are facilities that require a path connection (hard to do if you're using a half-grid 2m extension or something).

This got me thinking however about some of these animals. The in-game exhibit size, 4x4, is in real life perfectly suitable for iguanas, and for alligator snapping turtles (I won't hazard a guess as to the dwarf caiman, but they are tiny in the game, so I'm including them here as well), yet people still believe both would be better as habitat animals. So it got me thinking about whether or not they could be both. Personally I'd prefer them as exhibit animals - that's just my preference, because unlike some of you I actually really do like the exhibits and the exhibit animals - but I can totally respect the desire to have them as habitat animals as well (and I'd certainly use them in that way sometimes).

The idea would be to create two versions of each of these animals (or in the case of the iguanas, one more version) that would exist separately in the regular animal market and the exhibit market. If you want to put them in an exhibit, you'd pick the ones from the exhibit animal market, but if you wanted them in a habitat, you'd pick the ones from the habitat market. Although this probably does require a fair amount of extra legwork, I think it's a pretty good solution, if of course anyone deems it necessary.

Anyway, I just wanted to put that out there and see what people think.

 

[DragonNTiger]

I really don't see the point of making exhibit versions of animals... or exhibit animals in general... they're just glorified scenery objects. One of the biggest reasons I (and I'm sure others) want iguanas, caimans and snapping turtles (and others) as habitat animals is because they not only act like actual animals and cared for like actual animals, but we can customize their environment however we want... you can't do that with an exhibit, even if they added more options for exhibit sizes.

 

[NZFanatic]

I really don't see the point of making exhibit versions of animals... or exhibit animals in general... they're just glorified scenery objects. One of the biggest reasons I (and I'm sure others) want iguanas, caimans and snapping turtles (and others) as habitat animals is because they not only act like actual animals and cared for like actual animals, but we can customize their environment however we want... you can't do that with an exhibit, even if they added more options for exhibit sizes.

Yeah, to be honest, I'm not really interested in a discussion around the merits of exhibit animals themselves. That belongs in another thread. The point here is that there is debate around whether specifically the iguanas should be exhibit or habitat animals, and if we get snapping turtles in the future where they would belong (and I threw in the caiman because at least I believe it could be either as well).

 

[Antmar97]

Another thing everyone has wanted for a long time is some more variety in exhibit sizes. For the sake of this discussion I'd propose an additional larger exhibit in a 4x8m size, so the same width as the current one but twice as long

This

The idea would be to create two versions of each of these animals (or in the case of the iguanas, one more version) that would exist separately in the regular animal market and the exhibit market. If you want to put them in an exhibit, you'd pick the ones from the exhibit animal market, but if you wanted them in a habitat, you'd pick the ones from the habitat market. Although this probably does require a fair amount of extra legwork, I think it's a pretty good solution, if of course anyone deems it necessary.

And THIS

Nothing else to say, give the players the choice to use prebuild exihibit or let them use the animals in a full habitat (Of course only for the right animals, i think that insects and the others small animals have to stay in the exihibits, we need just more variation for them).
I would love to use the iguanas in a proper habitat.

 

[DragonNTiger]

Nothing else to say, give the players the choice to use prebuild exihibit or let them use the animals in a full habitat (Of course only for the right animals, i think that insects and the others small animals have to stay in the exihibits, we need just more variation for them).
I would love to use the iguanas in a proper habitat.

Well, if you're willing to use them, there are mod versions of iguanas...

 

[NZFanatic]

Nothing else to say, give the players the choice to use prebuild exihibit or let them use the animals in a full habitat (Of course only for the right animals, i think that insects and the others small animals have to stay in the exihibits, we need just more variation for them).
I would love to use the iguanas in a proper habitat.

I mean realistically the only species it would actually work for are the two iguanas and the dwarf caiman (which would go the other way as well). Snakes need to stay contained in most cases, and obviously so do the frogs (humidity control is massively important for keeping amphibians), and invertebrates. The other reptiles such as the blue-tongued skink or gila monster should really stay exhibit animals, too.

 

[Antmar97]

Well, if you're willing to use them, there are mod versions of iguanas...

Yes i know, i've already tried that, but it would be nice to have this as a game feature and not by using mods.

 

[DarthQuell]

I think it's interesting concept, but remember that the animals they choose for exhibits are typically non-active species. Lizards and snakes bask all day, invertebrates barely move (excluding colony-living species). So, I think that snappers should be exhibit. Yeah, they get big, but typically I see them (in the wild, mind y'all) to be about 1 or 2 feet, no more.

Of course only for the right animals, i think that insects and the others small animals have to stay in

, why, I was hoping to have some giant forest scorpions live in with my elephants and have an awesome interspecies bonus

 

[NZFanatic]

I think it's interesting concept, but remember that the animals they choose for exhibits are typically non-active species. Lizards and snakes bask all day, invertebrates barely move (excluding colony-living species). So, I think that snappers should be exhibit. Yeah, they get big, but typically I see them (in the wild, mind y'all) to be about 1 or 2 feet, no more.

Overall I agree, and would often argue the same point, but with some animals it becomes trickier - iguanas in captivity do rarely move around a lot, but a lot of zoos are moving to bigger more open spaces for them because in the wild they move around a lot more. Conversely, crocodilia tend not to move all that much in captivity, which is why I think the caiman would be a good candidate going the other way. Then of course with snapping turtles, from a gameplay perspective there is the point that they are often housed with alligators, which, if we end up with both, wouldn't be possible as purely an exhibit animal, so we'd lose a really nice mix.

Crossover seems like the best answer to me, to let players decide for themselves. Naturally I don't think it would be an easy thing to do, but I thought the concept was at least interesting.

 

[MissySanchez]

Since the dwarf caiman was added I had always thought why they weren't chosen as an exhibit animal, given they are the same size as a large iguana. Habitats are more engaging so I never thought about voicing my opinion here. However, the space requirement they have makes it impossible to design realistic habitats for them. So I'd rather have the habitat space requirement nerfed or have the option to place them in larger exhibits.

Quite honestly, dwarf caiman isn't the only small animal suffering from the inflated space requirements. Almost every small animal has this problem. When you add the effect of scenery and decorations eating up space, it gets even worse. Most of these animals should really have space requirements in the double digits: 50-100 square meters or in other words 500-1000 square feet. This way we can still have them as habitat animals but incorporate them into indoor areas alongside exhibits. I believe this would be the best solution.

Snapping turtles on the other hand should be exhibit in my opinion, as they are too static to make a proper habitat animal.

 

[NZFanatic]

Since the dwarf caiman was added I had always thought why they weren't chosen as an exhibit animal, given they are the same size as a large iguana. Habitats are more engaging so I never thought about voicing my opinion here. However, the space requirement they have makes it impossible to design realistic habitats for them. So I'd rather have the habitat space requirement nerfed or have the option to place them in larger exhibits.

Quite honestly, dwarf caiman isn't the only small animal suffering from the inflated space requirements. Almost every small animal has this problem. When you add the effect of scenery and decorations eating up space, it gets even worse. Most of these animals should really have space requirements in the double digits: 50-100 square meters or in other words 500-1000 square feet. This way we can still have them as habitat animals but incorporate them into indoor areas alongside exhibits. I believe this would be the best solution.

Snapping turtles on the other hand should be exhibit in my opinion, as they are too static to make a proper habitat animal.

Space requirements are an enduring issue. Even with welfare turned off it's difficult to go too small with the caiman due to the land/water mix, but a decent sized exhibit would allow a great alternative use for the animal, which is again why I advocate for a mix.

I don't see it as something Frontier will implement, of course, as it's complex and requires too much overhaul of existing in-game systems, but even so it's worth talking about I think. At the very least they might consider it as something to think about.

 

[Aotearoa]

I know there are some mods turning iguanas into habitat animals, but I would love this as an actual game feature.

 

[Antmar97]

I was hoping to have some giant forest scorpions live in with my elephants and have an awesome interspecies bonus

I can already imagine a lot of dead scorpions because elephants casually walks on them .

 

[Kolikokoli]

I'd like to see rather some prebuild exhibits like ZCT games (rabbit holes). Or just make it so we don't have to care about them and keep them immortal. They breed too much and die too quickly (but when you slow growing, then it takes forever for turtles etc. to grow from babies to adults).

 

[jcp011c]

Snapping turtles are definitely large enough for a habitat, but as they don't move around a lot they would be a better for an exhibit, to me at least. I wouldn't be unhappy if they were habitat animals though. Caimans should definitely always be habitat animals, and Iguanas are better suited for exhibits, I think, both due to size and due to their largely static nature.

 

[NZFanatic]

Snapping turtles are definitely large enough for a habitat, but as they don't move around a lot they would be a better for an exhibit, to me at least. I wouldn't be unhappy if they were habitat animals though. Caimans should definitely always be habitat animals, and Iguanas are better suited for exhibits, I think, both due to size and due to their largely static nature.

This is exactly why I think all three should be both (snapping turtles hypothetically, of course).

 

[macronecu]

Caimans should definitely always be habitat animals.

If this is the case, then their space requirements should be lowered a ton.

 

[DrBurrito]

I've seen a lot of discussion around the iguanas, and around the potential of snapping turtles coming to the game, and in the past there has been discussion around Cuvier's dwarf caiman, and whether these animals ought to be exhibit animals or habitat animals. I thought I'd create a thread on the subject and share an idea.

Another thing everyone has wanted for a long time is some more variety in exhibit sizes. For the sake of this discussion I'd propose an additional larger exhibit in a 4x8m size, so the same width as the current one but twice as long. The reason I'd stick to a 4m grid is because currently that is the smallest increment of path we can use (excepting the queues, but at the moment they don't count), and the exhibits are facilities that require a path connection (hard to do if you're using a half-grid 2m extension or something).

This got me thinking however about some of these animals. The in-game exhibit size, 4x4, is in real life perfectly suitable for iguanas, and for alligator snapping turtles (I won't hazard a guess as to the dwarf caiman, but they are tiny in the game, so I'm including them here as well), yet people still believe both would be better as habitat animals. So it got me thinking about whether or not they could be both. Personally I'd prefer them as exhibit animals - that's just my preference, because unlike some of you I actually really do like the exhibits and the exhibit animals - but I can totally respect the desire to have them as habitat animals as well (and I'd certainly use them in that way sometimes).

The idea would be to create two versions of each of these animals (or in the case of the iguanas, one more version) that would exist separately in the regular animal market and the exhibit market. If you want to put them in an exhibit, you'd pick the ones from the exhibit animal market, but if you wanted them in a habitat, you'd pick the ones from the habitat market. Although this probably does require a fair amount of extra legwork, I think it's a pretty good solution, if of course anyone deems it necessary.

Anyway, I just wanted to put that out there and see what people think.

I see you have joined the dark side regarding Cuvier's dwarf caimans after last year's discussion on whether they should be exhibit or not.

 

[Bearcat9948]

I know you're a big proponent of the "covered habitats" version of an aviary system, which you and I have had some debates about

However, if your version does come to pass, I would definitely like to see both iguana species removed from the exhibit system and added into the habitat system. I think for those species, the types of habitats we could create would be a ton of fun, and way better looking than anything possible right now. I also definitely don't want the dwarf caiman added to an exhibit system, I don't even want them making larger sized ones, I'd rather we got some smaller ones actually, for the insects and frogs.

As for an alligator snapping turtle, I think it's best situated for an exhibit. The current size would fit two adults, they'd just need to make the water a bit deeper to make it work. They don't move much, less than any other reptile we have in the habitat system, so I don't see any merit to making them a habitat animals when really all they should be doing is sitting at the bottom of a tank.

 

[NZFanatic]

I see you have joined the dark side regarding Cuvier's dwarf caimans after last year's discussion on whether they should be exhibit or not.

I don't actually remember such a discussion - to be honest my thought process on this stemmed from the only caiman habitat I've attempted to make so far. Considering how tiny the animal actually is (I expected it to be bigger, not sure why), it looked kind of ridiculous even in as small a habitat as I could make. Next time I'm going to attempt to go even smaller, but we'll see.

I do like the idea of choice with some of these species. I probably wouldn't use the iguana as a habitat animal much myself, because again, the necessary space requirements based on hitboxes would probably make building a small enough habitat impossible for them, but I included it because I know a lot of others like the idea of having them in habitats (and being honest I've seen them mixed with tamarin species before, so that is a tantalising prospect), but the caiman is one I could see myself switching back and forth on regularly.