Complaining about the complainers.. how ironic
Elite turning into Eve?
- Thread starter Genxav
- Start date
It does seem that way, but I think this is just because there are now more people joining the forum as the release date draws closer. A lot of them play(ed) EVE and for some reason, like to compare every space sim to it.
uhm.. i've seen a lot of lesser constructive feedback against people who make suggestions by the pve crowd ever since i joined this forum a year ago,
thats nothing new here, and its nothing where this is changing to be more like EVE, or anything.
Its just the side effect of people being passionate (and by that a bit blind) about the game.
Also you say yourself that you are an ex-eve player, but then you claim such behaviour typical for said community? really? long term eve players are quite used to the game changing all the time, and there is hardly any mechanic that has not changed since I'm playing that game (8 years and counting). Yes people argue in that community (like in the one here and any other), but arguments like "it wasn't like that in the original game" or "person x said it will be like this so it has to be like this and can never change" you hear very rarely there.
Now if you had said Star Citizen...
thats nothing new here, and its nothing where this is changing to be more like EVE, or anything.
Its just the side effect of people being passionate (and by that a bit blind) about the game.
Also you say yourself that you are an ex-eve player, but then you claim such behaviour typical for said community? really? long term eve players are quite used to the game changing all the time, and there is hardly any mechanic that has not changed since I'm playing that game (8 years and counting). Yes people argue in that community (like in the one here and any other), but arguments like "it wasn't like that in the original game" or "person x said it will be like this so it has to be like this and can never change" you hear very rarely there.
Now if you had said Star Citizen...
The viable option of having drones to assist fetching ore fits the world of Elite better than tractor beams, it can accomplish the same task. I don't mind tractor beams, I think they're cool, it's used in scifi a lot and I don't have any issue it not being used in ED, but the request for it is for the sake of being less tedious, if you're flying a large ship like a Type 9, flying to fetch each individual rock is tedious, such a large ship should have drones that can aid it since it's a lumbersome beast. The functionality of what a tractor beam or drone can do is beneficial, but a tractor beam doesn't fit the world of Elite, a drone can accomplish the same task and fit the narrative better.
Also, lets not use the EVE scare tactic, it's pointless and not fair to either game to begin with in the comparison. It's also a pointless discussion to point fingers at games that take aspects from other games, perhaps it's not that obvious, but that's the natural progression of games, concepts are copied and improved (or sometimes made worse), there are very few original ideas for games, everything is naturally iterative based on something done in the past as inspiration.
Also, lets not use the EVE scare tactic, it's pointless and not fair to either game to begin with in the comparison. It's also a pointless discussion to point fingers at games that take aspects from other games, perhaps it's not that obvious, but that's the natural progression of games, concepts are copied and improved (or sometimes made worse), there are very few original ideas for games, everything is naturally iterative based on something done in the past as inspiration.
All of these arguments rely on tarring one group of people with the same brush and frankly I find that offensive. There is no such thing as "the evil Eve community". There is certainly an online gaming community and it is made up of players who play in the following groups:
• The miners
• The researchers
• The industrialists
• The haulers
• The logistics crews
• The scouts
• The tacklers
• The fleet commanders
• The battleship crews
• The titan pilots
These people come from all walks of life. Students, unemployed, long term sick, disabled, blue collar, white collar, school, retired, with and without kids. Many of them have different mind sets, such as those that prefer to play solo, those that like small groups, those that like being part of a team and those that like to lead. Some prefer PVE, some prefer PVP. They like to play games too, some like Eve Online, some like Elite Dangerous and some like both or neither preferring instead other games. Intrinsically, there is nothing wrong with being an Eve Online player. So when people make sweeping statements about Eve players I object. If you mean you dislike griefers then just say that. Do not tar everyone with the same brush, doing so marks you as a troll and devalues your entire argument.
• The miners
• The researchers
• The industrialists
• The haulers
• The logistics crews
• The scouts
• The tacklers
• The fleet commanders
• The battleship crews
• The titan pilots
These people come from all walks of life. Students, unemployed, long term sick, disabled, blue collar, white collar, school, retired, with and without kids. Many of them have different mind sets, such as those that prefer to play solo, those that like small groups, those that like being part of a team and those that like to lead. Some prefer PVE, some prefer PVP. They like to play games too, some like Eve Online, some like Elite Dangerous and some like both or neither preferring instead other games. Intrinsically, there is nothing wrong with being an Eve Online player. So when people make sweeping statements about Eve players I object. If you mean you dislike griefers then just say that. Do not tar everyone with the same brush, doing so marks you as a troll and devalues your entire argument.
its never wrong ot look at other games when looking for stuff that works (or doesn't work).A lot of them play(ed) EVE and for some reason, like to compare every space sim to it.
And frankly, which other games would you draw as an example? EVE is the oldest one, and the most openworld one around. Do you want people to use Star Trek Online as a comparison? would that make sense to you?
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
Right. The OP - despite the title - was about a mentality seen creeping into the E: D forums.
Can we get back to that idea, and not start a skirmish about which game came first, or is better, or whatever.
Thanks.
Can we get back to that idea, and not start a skirmish about which game came first, or is better, or whatever.
Thanks.
I hate EVE.
That is all, as you were.
That is all, as you were.
Its funny how some people just read TRACTOR BEAMS
Well more clarification around, my post title is "Elite turning into EVE?" @deusx_oph
I'm not trolling.
I'm a bit concerned about some of the behavior in the forums that reminded me of EVE community.
I wanted to share my concern.
BTW I've been since beta 1
oi! don't lump me in with the rest! i was being super constructive by
a) agreeing with your point that the tone of the forum is expected to change due to influx of many many new faces (and i do think that is the main reason, not EVE, it takes time to adjust to a friendly & nice fourm like this one is).
b) pointing out to positively influence this forum by leading by example
c) trying to be helpful explaining that your thead title does invite ED vs EVE type discussion rather then constructive discussion of your point. "I sense an attitude change HALP!" could have been a title for this thread yes? no?
d) weekend is near - i r going home & play me some elite dangerous beta 3.02 - join me
e) oh and sorry for calling you a little teeny weeny troll
let#s make up BTW i have been here since alpha, just so you know like
oi! don't lump me in with the rest! i was being super constructive by
a) agreeing with your point that the tone of the forum is expected to change due to influx of many many new faces (and i do think that is the main reason, not EVE, it takes time to adjust to a friendly & nice fourm like this one is).
b) pointing out to positively influence this forum by leading by example
c) trying to be helpful explaining that your thead title does invite ED vs EVE type discussion rather then constructive discussion of your point. "I sense an attitude change HALP!" could have been a title for this thread yes? no?
d) weekend is near - i r going home & play me some elite dangerous beta 3.02 - join me
e) oh and sorry for calling you a little teeny weeny troll
BTW i have been here since alpha, just so you know like
sorry wasn't my intention deusx_ophc ｍ（．＿．）ｍ i just wrote all my answers in one whole post lol
i agree, my title was not the wisest choice lo l
and the icon was a mouse accident lolI know you were being constructive and some people here have been too, some others not so much.
Pretty much like i said before, and as our mod Ian Phillips mentioned the idea was about a mentality seen creeping into the E: D forums.
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BTW i have been here since alpha, just so you know like
im here 5times more earlier then you ever were!
This is absolutely correct - have a rep!
I want to agree with you, but I can't. I played EVE for years and years and years. A part of your post is correct, but you have to distinguish two types here. There's the individual identity and there's a strange thing which is the group identity. The group identity is very studied, is known to exist and allows you to feel about things that you yourself had no part in. Like when your team win the cup being a 'good' example, some germans still feeling a sense of guilt for something that had nothing to do with them, being a 'bad' example.
The individual identities are as you say, the EVE Community is made up of literally thousands of actually decent people. I know, I was one of them, I met a lot of them. But the Eve Community identity is toxic. It encourages lawlessness, encourages backstabbing, teaches you never to completely trust your friends (this is particularly true if your run a corporation or empire as I did) and has a general attitude of 'htfu'. I see a lot of that (particularly htfu) from a lot of migrants from the eve community to here.
Remember this isn't comparing the game EVE to the game Elite Dangerous. The OP wishes to compare the communities. And this is where we have to be particularly wary. There is a lot of cross-over. Most of the people I know here have played EVE at some point or other and most of us have left citing that very community identity your post denies exists.
I think this is probably what the OP meant to write, or something similar.
I liked EVE, I played it several times... I can't afford EVE so I stopped playing.
Since it was the closest thing to Elite at the time I was very sadly I couldn't afford it.
Then new and bigger and better Elite was announced and affordable and I was overjoyed. EvE's biggest failing to me was the cost vs. time to play it.
Since it was the closest thing to Elite at the time I was very sadly I couldn't afford it.
Then new and bigger and better Elite was announced and affordable and I was overjoyed. EvE's biggest failing to me was the cost vs. time to play it.
Thanks for knowing what i like. Good one.
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I do think its fun because it takes time and feels like a job. Can it be made better? Probably. And it probably will be enhanced, but i base it off my own ship so far which isnt a massive one and so -i think- it should take time and be a bit of a chore. Not sure if mining should be super fun so everyone does it. However with a bigger ship i have already said there should be upgraded more expensive gear for mining faster/easier so its not the same "shoot, pick up 1 ore" rince & repeat.
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Im still testing and feeling it out, but so far for my smaller ship it feels about right. So please let me judge for myself whats fun and not. Thanks.
SO you came here from playing Eve, good for you, now can you kindly leave your Eve baggage at the door and embrace a completely different game.
Thanks.
Thanks.
he is not comparing the game at all he is making a point about his fears for the community on the forums.
Just to point out that the original Elite was heavily based on a pen and paper RPG called Traveller which took alot from the ideas from 60s/70s Sci-Fi and put them in a game-world with in-depth mechanics.
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Am a former Eve player too, having probably left for good due to the awfulness of the Mac client (I use Macs 99% of the time, so it's important for me personally), I could see hints of corps being given the green light from the dev in the live stream - as in they have nothing against it and the players will drive the story.
For this to work, there needs to be things worth grouping together for, such as resources, claimable planets/moon/systems etc... I'm not sure how the game itself will handle corp interactions on the level required or if this will be left for things outside the game to handle like the forums, and teamspeak etc, however, ownership of resources in this sense will need to be implemented in-game at the very least, this could be stuff like buildable stations and outposts, local markets and the like. Industry would need to be present that can be controlled by players for things like manufacturing ships, weapon systems, and add-ons, all of which would require resources which could come from miners and explorers.
The more you look at this, the more Eve-like it gets. Eve is a very mature game, and can be an amazing experience, the biggest issue is the way the power-blocs form and become extremely cliquey barring the majority of players from experiencing alot of the content outside of hi-sec space. The best way for Elite to go with that aspect is to operate a no-sec self-policing sandbox, maybe even have players as station police under contract for a regular wage based on time spent 'policing'...
As for the toxic Eve community... it does exist, I've played it since 2003 and seen most of the major things happen there, but I've also got burnt-out by it and 'restarted' a couple of times. The community can manifest lots of the worst aspects of humanity but also some of the best, it depends greatly on who you fly with.
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