State of the Game

Lysette

Lysette
PiLhEaD said:
One true and horrifying story about bad science.

In investigating treatments for ME/CFS a trial (the 'PACE trial') reported that two particular treatments, known as cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and graded exercise therapy (GET), were effective. They cited 641 test subjects and claimed that 60 (yes sixty) percent showed improvement, if not cure. The result was that these approaches formed the basis of medical treatment and insurance companies response to ME/CFS.

However, their findings did not ring true to sufferers of the condition nor experts in the field.

After a very lengthy and combative process the underlying data was finally released for review, and "...analysis showed that... only 4.4 percent of the exercise patients and 6.8 percent of the cognitive behavior therapy patients would have qualified as having recovered, along with 3.1 percent of patients in a trial arm that received neither therapy." So not quite 60%.

It was also found that the definition of “recovery” used was so loose that patients could get worse over the course of the trial on both fatigue and physical function and still be considered “recovered.” and that the threshold for physical function was so low that an average 80-year-old would exceed it. Additionally "The study used such a broad definition of the disease that it likely included many patients who didn’t truly have ME/CFS at all."

In my conversation with a very senior ME/CFS specialist, he was blunter, saying that of the 641 test subjects, 0 showed any significant improvement.

But along the way, how many people had been harmed and made to feel that they were wrong about their own bodies? I find it obscene that this now thoroughly discredited study has never been retracted.

Sorry to vary the tone. Cat meme coming shortly.
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just reminds me of the Theranos scandal

en.wikipedia.org

Elizabeth Holmes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 

Fishy

Fishy
Sees the 879423th Odyssey thread by same non-Odyssey owner trying really hard to justify to themselves and to "the community" why they're absolutely going to buy it despite ranting about it since beta and explaining to everyone how every other game does it better.

Today's possible moral justification for purchasing Odyssey? "Can I uninstall it?"

Posts, then waits for 879424th thread.
 

VR Lucian Arkright

VR Lucian Arkright
@The Nephilim
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Just

Just
PiLhEaD said:
One true and horrifying story about bad science.
(...)
Sorry to vary the tone. Cat meme coming shortly.
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Well, this was hardly a science, more of a con.

What I meant is even science done "the right way" has some (low) "failure rate".
For whatever obvious reasons, that I feel to lazy to add here, because they, as mentioned, obvious...
 

PiLhEaD

PiLhEaD
Just said:
Yet a lot of (even smart) people take the indisputable superiority of scientific methodology over any other approach to understand reality
as a base to build themselves a delusional castle where all of theories are true and forever will be,
and for them having any doubts or just thinking outside of their box is a sign of heresy.
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I think that depends what's being questioned (and on what basis). Proper scientific debate, so challenge and response, is part of how science moves forward. As most scientists accept, every theory they have currently is just the bast one currently available. It is not necessarily correct. For example Newtonian physics got mankind to and from the moon. It's not right, but it was right enough for the job.

I still think fondly of the flat-earther who said (I think on Radio 4's Today programme) <broadly> '...we have supporters all round the globe...'

Sorry. I've forgotten the point... here's a cat:

NWYIzDk.jpeg
 

PiLhEaD

PiLhEaD
Just said:
Well, this was hardly a science, more of a con.

What I meant is even science done "the right way" has some (low) "failure rate".
For whatever obvious reasons, that I feel to lazy to add here, because they, as mentioned, obvious...
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No. I'm sorry. This was presented as science.
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
Sir.Tj said:
You lot behaving yourselves today? View attachment 245194
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Hello there TJ - nice to see you old chap. I have to complain that people have been posting things that closely resemble science, or education, and this is just not on. Please sort it out so we can return to being on off topic ;)

MishaTX said:
Now there's a shocker!
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Probably not the best idea to quote this when quoting TJ too, but there is no cure for stupidity....
 
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