Big Elite Streamers Giving Up On Streaming Elite?

[Montgomery Dog]

At which point people will say (because the missions use procedural systems) all you did was say "pick up this package from a guy (kill him), deliver it through pirates (killing them) to someone and the package, being a bomb, kills them" .. all you did was put several things that are in the game already, together .. well, yeah! Meanwhile in the game now, Fuel Rats is a quest, recording barkmound sounds, is a quest, undermining a power is a long term quest. There's no difference.

There's a very big difference. It's a neat way of providing a simulacra of curated gameplay in a procedural world without having to go full Elder Scrolls. It would help onboard players to game concepts and roles, drive engagement, add interest and texture for long term players --- and it takes absolutely nothing away from anyone else who doesn't want to participate.

I'm sure that Frontier could prototype a procedural, chaining mission system capable of many thousands of permutations (including activities, rewards, risks, wrinkles, etc) -- without having to add much (or anything) to the game in terms of systems or other fantasy requests.

You could quite literally paper-prototype this yourself with a flow chart and a few decks of cards.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Agreed. Not easy to capture. Arguably still fairer to talk about what you can do with the game than what you can't though. ED can't wash my car or cut the grass but is that objectively bad game design? (Come on devs, pull your finger out! ;p)

ED is not a bad casual game- if you do just flaunt about doing the odd thing here or there, its fine. However, the real meat of ED comes from when you move up the pyramid, where these small actions build into something more. Its then that the shallowness of each action is hammered into you.

I mean, I used to kill 50 odd sec a day doing BGS work, I know inside out how they work and how little variation there really is currently. FD could do so much more with simple rules if they got brave.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Discovery was OK in the first seasons IMO, but it gradually grew into JJ style where it goes more and more far fetched until you completely lose touch with "reality". I honestly don't know why I should care now TBH. It's too far fetched.

It was never a star trek show. And neither was Picard. They were Sci fi show, and should be treated as such.

Star trek was about confronting real life issues in a sci fi settings, to put some distance, and have character interactions and the like. Also asking difficult ethical and moral question. The whole "trekking" around the galaxy was the medium, not the goal.

Yeah, it was a soap opera in space. True nerds didn't notice the whole pic. I know I didn't when waiting for the corny pun lines or Beverage Crushers appearance. Or I rolled my eyes when the moralising began. But watching it later again it was just that: Our problems projected into the future and how we deal with them in advanced state of culture and tech.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

Only in your mind - and in the perception built by streamers, who passed snap judgement before they'd thought for five minutes about what can be done with the new tools, stuff which evolves over time and only with familiarity. I played it all weekend. Not broke. Don't believe everything you read.

I don't. Indeed what I'm reading from you at present I'm finding difficult to believe. To date you've argued that it's ok to make a commitment and then break it whenever it doesn't suit, that despite the bugs and problems (mentioned in passing, but we have to ignore them) EDO is the best thing since sliced bread and now you're accusing others of being brainwashed by streamers. Sorry, but I get the impression that I'm not the one who's drunk the Koolaid here...

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

ED is not a bad casual game- if you do just flaunt about doing the odd thing here or there, its fine. However, the real meat of ED comes from when you move up the pyramid, where these small actions build into something more. Its then that the shallowness of each action is hammered into you.

I mean, I used to kill 50 odd sec a day doing BGS work, I know inside out how they work and how little variation there really is currently. FD could do so much more with simple rules if they got brave.

It's a pretty crappy casual game. You won't get anywhere playing like a casul and playing the BGS doesn't get you far either, because when you play the BGS - you don't really have time to grind the nollock engineer crap.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It's a pretty crappy casual game. You won't get anywhere playing like a casul and playing the BGS doesn't get you far either, because when you play the BGS - you don't really have time to grind the nollock engineer crap.

Its a lovely casual game, because you avoid being locked into protracted game loops made up of small grind units.

Plus, when you grind out BGS or PP actions you get showered in goodies, and at that level good ships make life easy.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Its a lovely casual game, because you avoid being locked into protracted game loops made up of small grind units.

Plus, when you grind out BGS or PP actions you get showered in goodies, and at that level good ships make life easy.

I'm sure it's somewhat like that with the right meta-chariot under the arss.

 

[Winterwalker]

I don't. Indeed what I'm reading from you at present I'm finding difficult to believe. To date you've argued that it's ok to make a commitment and then break it whenever it doesn't suit, that despite the bugs and problems (mentioned in passing, but we have to ignore them) EDO is the best thing since sliced bread and now you're accusing others of being brainwashed by streamers. Sorry, but I get the impression that I'm not the one who's drunk the Koolaid here...

No. I said if you can't be sure don't say anything (which has been Frontier policy). Best thing since sliced bread? Didn't say that. It is fun though and well put together as far as it goes so far imo. There are bugs .. and it's the OP who cares what streamers think.

I'm just saying their snap opinion is just that but can also have real implications on the success or failure of a release. How you avoid that i'm not sure but things rarely go well when the tail wags the dog.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

Abrams is proof that modern day Hollywood doesn't give a damn about what made an original movie or series good, nor do they care about continuity. They just want to put more behinds in seats, so they remake everything into an emotion-tugging action-drama that is safely re-cast as to not offend a single person on the planet. Then they add the censor cherry on top so they don't lose the Chinese market. They're spineless, kowtowing cowards who could give two flying Asp Scouts about nostalgia.

Or:
is proof that modern day games studios don't give a damn about what made an original game or series good, nor do they care about continuity. They just want to more influencers streaming, so they remake everything into a short twitch game loop so as to attract every game influencer on the planet. Then they add the loot collecting game loop on top so they don't lose the casual market.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

No. I said if you can't be sure don't say anything (which has been Frontier policy). Best thing since sliced bread? Didn't say that. It is fun though and well put together as far as it goes so far imo. There are bugs .. and it's the OP who cares what streamers think.

Except they did. Remember? Regular dev streams? And it's not well put together, even you admit it's buggy and has serious optimization problems.

I'm just saying their snap opinion is just that but can also have real implications on the success or failure of a release. How you avoid that i'm not sure but things rarely go well when the tail wags the dog.

Yes, they're behind all the overwhelmingly negative reviews too. If you look carefully you can also see Yamiks standing on that grassy knoll with a plasma rifle when JFK drove past...

Seriously, there's a serious disconnect with reality going on here.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Except they did. Remember? Regular dev streams? And it's not well put together, even you admit it's buggy and has serious optimization problems.

Yes, they're behind all the overwhelmingly negative reviews too. If you look carefully you can also see Yamiks standing on that grassy knoll with a plasma rifle when JFK drove past...

Seriously, there's a serious disconnect with reality going on here.

It's actually hilarious to read!

 

[Winterwalker]

Regular dev streams?

Future .. as opposed to, to date .. for trolls.

They've given in on that now, yes. We'll see if that's wise, later.

And it's not well put together, even you admit it's buggy and has serious optimization problems.

Please don't profess to tell me my experience of the game which - again - I played all weekend. There are bugs because it's software but I'm not having optimisation problems so I'm able to comment on my experience of the gameplay, which I'm enjoying and find well put together.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

Future .. as opposed to, to date .. for trolls.

They've given in on that now, yes. We'll see if that's wise, later.

Oh, that's all right then.

Please don't profess to tell me my experience of the game which - again - I played all weekend. There are bugs because it's software but I'm not having optimisation problems so I'm able to comment on my experience of the gameplay, which I'm enjoying and find well put together.

No, but it's OK for you to tell me my and others experience of the game is brainwashing and "only in my mind". Hilarious.

 

[Winterwalker]

No, but it's OK for you to tell me my and others experience of the game is brainwashing and "only in my mind". Hilarious.

Except I played the game before forming (my) opinion, lived with it first and didn't give it on the same day as the drop.

Horizons, was the same on 1.0 release and went through the exact same debugging process even after a beta.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

Except I played the game first before forming that opinion and didn't give it on the same day as the drop.

How do you know when I formed my opinion? At this stage I lack the patience to respond because that kind of vacuous arrogance frankly deserves nothing other than an ad hominem, and I'd prefer to not go down that route.

 

[Katie Byrne]

It's not that the game has changed, so it's not fair of streamers to suddenly blame the game they've been exploiting to date

Having read through some of your replies here, you seem to have a particular Axe to grind, so I will just explain my reasons for shifting focus away from Elite and let you tear it right up afterwards

For the record though, I was never playing Elite in a shallow or opportunistic way as you seem to have the idea that streamers/youtubers do - I am still the number 1 ranked pilot on AXI's ACE list and have killed over 1100 thargoid interceptors including 164 Hydra. So I've been around a bit

But Elite is too much grind. In the AX domain especially - having to grind out ammo all the time just isn't fun, and I don't wanna spend my time doing it anymore.

the people that say things like 'relogging is cheating' and 'just play the game' forget that for some of the games high level endgame fights you HAVE to have synth refills. and yeah relogging though a frankly awful design choice to get to the part of the game you like is the least aggravating way to do it.

The troubles with Odyssey had little to do with my descision other than realizing FDev would never move away from the grind - instead doubling down. It gave me pause anyway to consider playing Star Citizen - and having done so now, Elite actually just feels really really far behind.

I'm not giving up on Elite, community events we hold are still fun - but I am focusing way more time on Star Citizen now

 

[Winterwalker]

How do you know when I formed my opinion? At this stage I lack the patience to respond because that kind of vacuous arrogance frankly deserves nothing other than an ad hominem, and I'd prefer to not go down that route.

No idea and don't care. The comment was about responsibility in journalism.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

No idea and don't care. The comment was about responsibility in journalism.

You could have stopped after your second word.

 

[Winterwalker]

the people that say things like 'relogging is cheating' and 'just play the game' forget that for some of the games high level endgame fights you HAVE to have synth refills. and yeah relogging though a frankly awful design choice to get to the part of the game you like is the least aggravating way to do it.

Play what game you want, of course.

Picked the particular quote above out ONLY because .. trying to stay on topic, and talking about streamers .. logging probably does lead to an artifical representation of the game, even before EDO, when apparently everyone left, after.

You can definitely argue the activity you're doing should be the one giving you materials to carry on doing it. If that's not the case then I think that might be - and I'm not party to FD design meetings either - in effiort to avoid people falling too far into cliques, doing only one thing, burning out on it and having no other interest in the game (except relogging). I don't know but that might be their thinking and apparently you don't so that would fit.

What I do know is I wouldn't be handing giveways out to streamers who are advising logging as the most fulfilling even best way to play the game. I don't believe that it is and if they do leave it's probably for the best in the longer term. Fine wine and all that.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Well if OA’s video today wasn’t depressing enough for you....I can only imagine the next Elite Week.

Don't have to imagine. Watched it. At least a two-stage tactical weapon of about 50 KT.