re: Statement on Harassment

[EidLeWeise]

Heya @Arthur Tolmie,

Obviously this is about your recent Statement on harassment post

I want to firstly say I whole heartedly agree with you that personal attacks should not be tolerated and I feel for anyone (Dev or Community member) who's been on the receiving end of one.

From this point forwards, posts that attack, insult, accuse or are deemed harmful towards individual members of staff or teams, will result in a permanent ban

I would like to ask, who does the 'deeming' and are there review processes that can be taken if someone feels they have been unfairly banned?

I know that this is not your intention, but used wrongly these powers could turn feedback into an echo chamber of "this is fine" because members of the community with valid concerns are too scared to come forward lest they be 'deemed'

Sincerely, Ben Moss-Woodward / Cmdr Eid LeWeise

 

[Northpin]

Heya @Arthur Tolmie,

Obviously this is about your recent Statement on harassment post

I want to firstly say I whole heartedly agree with you that personal attacks should not be tolerated and I feel for anyone (Dev or Community member) who's been on the receiving end of one.



I would like to ask, who does the 'deeming' and are there review processes that can be taken if someone feels they have been unfairly banned?

I know that this is not your intention, but used wrongly these powers could turn feedback into an echo chamber of "this is fine" because members of the community with valid concerns are too scared to come forward lest they be 'deemed'

Sincerely, Ben Moss-Woodward / Cmdr Eid LeWeise

Well said!

Edit: hopefully the forums will not turn into a "this is fine" echo chamber

 

[Ydiss]

Well said!

Edit: hopefully the forums will not turn into a "this is fine" echo chamber

Huh?

The statement was crystal clear. How is it open to any interpretation? It's got nothing to do with echo chambers and everything to do with restricting those who wish to be abusive and no one needs to concern themselves with it unless they're intending to be abusive towards Fdev staff (and so this shouldn't cause any controversy whatsover because who wants to argue against that???). Pretty clear to me.

 

[Factabulous]

I would like to ask, who does the 'deeming' and are there review processes that can be taken if someone feels they have been unfairly banned?

Same as ever I would imagine - mail community@, state your case.

 

[Northpin]

Huh?

The statement was crystal clear. How is it open to any interpretation? It's got nothing to do with echo chambers and everything to do with restricting those who wish to be abusive. Pretty clear to me.

Re-read the OP.
More specifically the line after the quote

 

[EidLeWeise]

Well said!

Edit: hopefully the forums will not turn into a "this is fine" echo chamber

I'm sure it wont, but I felt nervous even asking the question, I value my good relationship with Frontier and the CMs but we can't have the forums become a place where people are afraid to ask questions either.

 

[Ydiss]

Re-read the OP.
More specifically the line after the quote

No one needs be "scared" about voicing concerns. It was clear that this is not what Arf was talking about and it's not open to any misrepresentation.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Play the ball, not the player is the case really.

If you are going to critique then do it constructively.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'm sure it wont, but I felt nervous even asking the question, I value my good relationship with Frontier and the CMs but we can't have the forums become a place where people are afraid to ask questions either.

One can frame questions in a manner that is both polite and to the point - without resorting to abusive language towards others.

 

[Ydiss]

I'm sure it wont, but I felt nervous even asking the question, I value my good relationship with Frontier and the CMs but we can't have the forums become a place where people are afraid to ask questions either.

Why?

Why should you be nervous when asking questions? Did the post Arf made today say asking questions would get you banned?

One can frame questions in a manner that is both polite and to the point - without resorting to abusive language towards others.

Yes, although I'd have thought this was pretty much common sense. Seems a little disingenuous to start stating that the post Arf made has anything to do with being "scared for giving feefback". Fdev have a right to work without fear of abuse. Simple as that! Nothing difficult to understand unless you think you wish to be abusive towards them, an act which is entirely possible to control.

 

[Paul_Crowther]

Hey there. Reported comments are reviewed by our Moderators and the option to appeal will always be available. This statement will have no impact on those who share feedback constructively and without abuse.

 

[EidLeWeise]

Hey there. Reported comments are reviewed by our Moderators and the option to appeal will always be available. This statement will have no impact on those who share feedback constructively and without abuse.

Thanks Paul o7

 

[Northpin]

Same as ever I would imagine - mail community@, state your case.

yea, but the mail is supposed to give one the opportunity to support their case if one feels that a (volunteer) mod wronged him
In this case, the community@ will drop the ban hammer... or not?


Edit: @Paul_Crowther cleared it, thank you

 

[Rubbernuke]

With these new rules, does extended Powerplay discussions count as harassment?

 

[Red Anders]

I'm sure it wont, but I felt nervous even asking the question, I value my good relationship with Frontier and the CMs but we can't have the forums become a place where people are afraid to ask questions either.

I think it has less to do with what is asked and more to do with how it is asked. I don't think anybody would disagree that a CM's role includes feeding communication from players back to the devs. But if that feedback is 'you're all crap and I hope you get sacked' then really it adds nothing that anybody would actually want to read, or would take the game forward.

 

[Ydiss]

yea, but the mail is supposed to give one the opportunity to support their case if one feels that a (volunteer) mod wronged him
In this case, the community@ will drop the ban hammer... or not?

Well, you've officially had your answer now.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

It's not a complicated statement, so why make it so?

If you're saying "I don't like this, because [insert complaint here], and I have this solution [insert solution here]", then that's absolutely fine.

But if you say "This is crap, the devs should be fed to crocodiles" then that's not.

Simple.

(Disclaimer, I don't want the devs fed to crocodiles!)

 

[EidLeWeise]

Why?

Why should you be nervous when asking questions? Did the post Arf made today say asking questions would get you banned?

Because if you can be "deemed" to have made an inappropriate comment, then it could have been insta-ban with no recourse. Thankfully Paul has laid that concern to rest.

 

[Ydiss]

Can we /thread this now and go back to complaining about the game?

 

[Northpin]

(Disclaimer, I don't want the devs fed to crocodiles!)

I see what you did here