Engineers Engineering my shields...?

[Dr Pillman]

So you guys favor Thermal over Reinforced - Fast charge on Bi-Weaves? Ok, I may have been wrong all the time..
Other question: Does thermal resistance help with refuelling? Or does your ship heat up close to a star regardless of what your shields do, because thermal weapon damage is a different thing than general systemic heat? Just wondering if thermal shield were also useful for exploring

 

[GeoJase]

So you guys favor Thermal over Reinforced - Fast charge on Bi-Weaves? Ok, I may have been wrong all the time..
Other question: Does thermal resistance help with refuelling? Or does your ship heat up close to a star regardless of what your shields do, because thermal weapon damage is a different thing than general systemic heat? Just wondering if thermal shield were also useful for exploring

Reinforced on Bi-weaves kinda negates their inherent fast recovery aspect.

Resistances (thermal, explosive, kinetic) only apply to incoming weapons fire. Environmental conditions (heat, cold, radiation) have no effect on shields and do no ship damage if you have no shields. With the exception of running into immovable objects (lithobraking), an explorer will see no benefit in running shields.

 

[Dr Pillman]

Reinforced on Bi-weaves kinda negates their inherent fast recovery aspect.

Resistances (thermal, explosive, kinetic) only apply to incoming weapons fire. Environmental conditions (heat, cold, radiation) have no effect on shields and do no ship damage if you have no shields. With the exception of running into immovable objects (lithobraking), an explorer will see no benefit in running shields.

Ok thanks, That´s what I thought.
About the Bi-Weaves: I am usually more in favor of balanced multi-purpose tunings rather than very specialised niche builds (e.g., I prefer clean drives over dirty drives, and I like efficient PAs more than focused), so my thinking was I put reinforced on a Bi-Weave to boost its weaker strength (plus a 0A-booster on heavy duty), and then add Fast Charge to ameliorate the charging penalty, and round it off with a 0D booster on resistance augment, I would get a shield that would not be as fast or as strong as it could have been, had I gone to optimise just one aspect , but still get a shield that is overall stronger than usual while still faster than most. Yes, the effects work against each other, so I don´t get all I could out of any of them, but the positives are larger than the penalties, so I get a medium boost on every aspect. I can take some blows while dishing out before I run, and I can come back before the enemies shields are fully up again. Usually. And against many opponents, I can still milk MJs from the enemy keepig my shields in middle strength, going in when his weapons are out of juice but mine are full.
So far, for my kind of undecided combat approach ( I can be as overcautious in one moment as I can be reckless in the next, and I am by far not a pro flyer), they seem to have worked ok-ish in most situations, but I definitely will try more specialised tunings now, and compare if I benefit more from fast or meaty shields the way I play, thank you for your advice. I got very interested in fast-thermal Bi-Weave shields now.

 

[Mohenjo]

I chose thermal shields because most npcs use lasers, and shields are already pretty resistant to kinetic.

I like shields that DON'T fail. Bi-weaves appear to be expecting to fail, then recover rapidly. I can't get the Prismatics, but I wouldn't want them, they take too long to recover if they DO fail. So, I stick with regular shields for the most part.

 

[metatheurgist]

Clean drives are niche, they are basically useless except for very specific exploration reasons.

 

[GloatingSwine]

I chose thermal shields because most npcs use lasers, and shields are already pretty resistant to kinetic.

I like shields that DON'T fail. Bi-weaves appear to be expecting to fail, then recover rapidly. I can't get the Prismatics, but I wouldn't want them, they take too long to recover if they DO fail. So, I stick with regular shields for the most part.

That's not really the case with Bi-Weaves. Their advantage isn't fast rebuild after failing (though that is true), it's that they regenerate faster in between being shot at, meaning that they'll usually recover to full in between engagements much more easily, giving you more effective shields over the course of an extended combat session.

Especially if you've build for resistance, because if you're at, say, 60% resistance on your shield then every point you regenerate is actually worth 2.5 points of incoming damage of that type.

 

[Dr Pillman]

Clean drives are niche, they are basically useless except for very specific exploration reasons.

Hm, I appreciate their lower heat output, meaning I can get another railgun shot off in hot-running vessels. Also, they don´t cut Optimal Mass that much, meaning I can afford more stuff like larger shield boosters without sacrificing too much thrust efficiency.

 

[metatheurgist]

Common misconception. Clean drives use more power which means they are actually hotter under general use (it's power use that is the main cause of heat). Dirty drives actually run cooler except under boost and that's like a very tiny effect.

 

[GeoJase]

Common misconception. Clean drives use more power which means they are actually hotter under general use (it's power use that is the main cause of heat). Dirty drives actually run cooler except under boost and that's like a very tiny effect.

You also LOOK cooler when you're boosting faster!

 

[GloatingSwine]

Common misconception. Clean drives use more power which means they are actually hotter under general use (it's power use that is the main cause of heat). Dirty drives actually run cooler except under boost and that's like a very tiny effect.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

Clean drives' greater use of power means they'll run hotter in supercruise, because there you aren't generating thrust heat but are generating power for the module. Dirty drives generate more thrust heat than other drive types, so they run hottest in realspace under thrust, but run cooler than clean drives in supercruise. (The difference is not large though).

Clean drives are virtually worthless to an explorer, because unless your single goal is to land on an improbably hot planet your main experience of heat is going to be when you are scooping, and that is when clean drives are at their worst.

Strengthened drives run the coolest* in supercruise whilst being almost as cool as clean drives in realspace, but are heavier. If you're an explorer and you're running downrated D class drives that may well be a price you can easily pay if you absolutely must have coldness for whatever you plan to do though. On something like a 5D thruster, reinforced 5 only costs you 2 tons.

*Or, at least, no hotter than unengineered drives in supercruise but cooler in realspace.

 

[d8veh]

Different ships have different strengths and weaknesses. You can try anything enjoy it and learn from it. One thing I learnt is that the FAS has useless shields. If you want a ship that the shields won't go down, the FAS is the wrong ship. An FDL or Python would be much better in that size. A FAS works much better as a hull tank as explained by somebody above.

 

[Dr Pillman]

Common misconception. Clean drives use more power which means they are actually hotter under general use (it's power use that is the main cause of heat). Dirty drives actually run cooler except under boost and that's like a very tiny effect.

The stats give an absolute number per second for heat load of thrusters, which is very low on clean ones. I could imagine the contribute to total ship heat via the power draw from the distributor, and/or the Power plant, so i would expect the efficiency of the power plant to play a major role in this comparison?
Therefore, could it be you benefit more from heat reduction of Clean thrusters running an armored Power Plant, whereas you might be punished heat-wise on Clean thrusters running an Overcharged Power Plant? Does anyone know? I would have to try, and don´t have the mats to pack my garage with different modules atm.

 

[fishevi]

My shielding is always bi-weave(no pp modules), my thrusters are always dirty/drag(drive distributor for some small ships) , even explo builds, and my plants are Armored/thermal(think 2,3 combat builds are Armored/monstered). Both PvE and PvP. Works for me.

 

[GloatingSwine]

The stats give an absolute number per second for heat load of thrusters, which is very low on clean ones. I could imagine the contribute to total ship heat via the power draw from the distributor, and/or the Power plant, so i would expect the efficiency of the power plant to play a major role in this comparison?
Therefore, could it be you benefit more from heat reduction of Clean thrusters running an armored Power Plant, whereas you might be punished heat-wise on Clean thrusters running an Overcharged Power Plant? Does anyone know? I would have to try, and don´t have the mats to pack my garage with different modules atm.

The difference in power use between clean and dirty thrusters isn't that high. It's +16% for clean and +12% for dirty.

Clean thrusters will always be hotter in supercruise, cooler under thrust, dirty thrusters will be cooler in supercruise and hotter under thrust. Strengthened thrusters will be cooler in supercruise than either and about even with clean under thrust possibly unless you boost a lot.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Clean thrusters will always be hotter in supercruise, cooler under thrust, dirty thrusters will be cooler in supercruise and hotter under thrust. Strengthened thrusters will be cooler in supercruise than either and about even with clean under thrust possibly unless you boost a lot.

For typical exploration ships I don't believe there is any measurable heat difference between clean/dirty thrusters when supercruise scooping. A while ago I did a bunch of systematic tests and could find no measurable difference (disregard for heavy non-typical exploration ships). My conclusion was explorers should design thrusters for non-supercruise activities.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...exploration-thrusters-and-supercruise.568279/

 

[Codger]

I chose thermal shields because most npcs use lasers, and shields are already pretty resistant to kinetic.

I like shields that DON'T fail. Bi-weaves appear to be expecting to fail, then recover rapidly. I can't get the Prismatics, but I wouldn't want them, they take too long to recover if they DO fail. So, I stick with regular shields for the most part.

Prismatics are really just regular shields with an A-rated booster already built in (loosely speaking). What takes long to recharge is raw MJ, regardless of how you get it.

For what it's worth, I personally use Prismatics and boost the heck out of them. By the time they fail, or are close to failing, I'm usually tired anyway and they do recover quickly enough in supercruise, and even faster at a station. I haven't had any issues, based on my gaming style. I do shorter stints of fighting, assassinations, etc. If you're the kind who wants to sit in a RES or do CZs back to back, then bi-weaves probably makes more sense.