Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

So... I'm seriously considering jumping to Star Citizen. I'm not sure I should, or even that I really WANT to. I mean, I love Elite, I grew up with it, and I don't know if Star Citizen will actually provide me with the experience I'm looking for, things Elite already does.

What has my attention at Star Citizen are the incredible ship interiors as well as the amazing planet surfaces that include extensive plant life and even weather conditions. It LOOKS fantastic, but what is there to DO in the game?

I expect I can do cargo hauling, something I enjoy in Elite.
I can do mining, though the mechanism is different, something else I enjoy in Elite.
I don't know what kind of exploration there is in Star Citizen, but it's the thing I do most in Elite.
I know I can do combat... which honestly looks more engaging than it does in Elite, which suffers from the presence of Engineered weapons with a variety of magic effects that serve to unbalance things. But then, I don't generally do much combat.

Truthfully, the reason I play Elite is to relax. I'm not playing for pulse pounding action, I play to haul cargo, quietly mine asteroids or methodically explore systems and worlds.

Of particular note is that I can opt out of PvP in Elite by playing in solo mode. I've no interest in PvP, but I don't know if Star Citizen allows me to opt out.

If Star Citizen can't offer me these things... I may be better off staying with Elite.

You see, Elite really hasn't changed. Odyssey is disappointing, but I can still do all the things I spent three years in the black doing. I can still run cargo, quietly mine and survey star systems. None of that has changed.

So, I'm no worse off staying with Elite. The question is whether I'd be better off with Star Citizen.

I just don't know.
If you play Elite to relax, you'll be much better off getting answers from the people here who play Star Citizen regularly on a non-testing basis.

Just out of curiosity, what's attracting you to Star Citizen, apart from an almost literal 7-year itch to see something different?

I used to play Elite, myself, and got bored of hauling and exploring while listening to my favorite tunes from the 70s and 80s. I even played NMS (after all the updates) to wander around and chill out (also to the same tunes, supplemented with UFO documentaries from the 70s). It also became rather staid after a while (read: about 200+ hours).

If you're looking for that immersive VR experience, hold off for a while.

But Star Citizen keeps adding to their solo experience - be it hauling cargo or mining (@Mole HD can expand on the latter).

I'd say watch some videos, or ask some people who've recently migrated to the other side of the fence.
 
If Star Citizen can't offer me these things...

It’s a bit of a yes/no.

There’s no equivalent of Solo, so PvP / ganking is always possible. (Regular miners like Mole in this thread can tell you if it’s a big deal or not / give you avoidance tips).

Mining mainly works (aside from the odd loss to 30K server crashes and general background bugginess), and is probably the most in-depth game mechanism, alongside combat.

Cargo hauling is essentially broken at the moment (absurdly low supply / demand making it a giant pain). You can do the small scale box delivery missions (although this too is not without bugs ;))

There’s no exploration in the Elite sense, as they’re still building out the initial solar system (in 2021…). But there are the collection of pretty planets & moons that you note.

Essentially, SC is still very much an alpha. Don’t expect to play it like a game. Expect bugs, annoyances, and for the gameplay that exists to be frequently slim, or interrupted by the same.

But hell, many people seem to just enjoy clomping around in their moon boots and enjoying the vibe. And the gameplay bits when they work. You might as well try the next Free Fly and see what you think.

Just don’t believe their roadmaps, don’t spend foolish amounts of $s on spaceships, (and don’t expect it to stop being an alpha any time soon), and you should be fine ;)
 
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Are orgs essentially clans then?

I'm still pottering about solo, i think i've done most basic gameplay loops now (or at least tried to). Might have to do hard credit earning, as still on 150,000cr and it's like 1.4 to 1.8mil for a Cutlass or Freelancer, which i think looks like ships to aim for.
Any suggestions for efficient things to do for credits?


Do like the way the company shares design philosophy, quite refreshing community engagement: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...-3-14-patch-watch-ships-and-thrusters-tuning/
Basically, yup. Some folks like to imagine them like Eve corporations...but basically, just a clan system. As for credit making, bounty hunting is still the most lucrative. There's also mining but you need a fair bit of patience to make serious money, you also need the Prospector mining ship or ROC buggy (and a ship to ferry the buggy around in) to try it out. Cargo or trade still isn't working as it should.
 
If you play Elite to relax, you'll be much better off getting answers from the people here who play Star Citizen regularly on a non-testing basis.

Just out of curiosity, what's attracting you to Star Citizen, apart from an almost literal 7-year itch to see something different?

I used to play Elite, myself, and got bored of hauling and exploring while listening to my favorite tunes from the 70s and 80s. I even played NMS (after all the updates) to wander around and chill out (also to the same tunes, supplemented with UFO documentaries from the 70s). It also became rather staid after a while (read: about 200+ hours).

If you're looking for that immersive VR experience, hold off for a while.

But Star Citizen keeps adding to their solo experience - be it hauling cargo or mining (@Mole HD can expand on the latter).

I'd say watch some videos, or ask some people who've recently migrated to the other side of the fence.
I can't really offer any better advice than has already been given above. Don't equate SC with ED is all I'll add, both are very different experiences in a gameplay sense. SC is very limited with few working or complete gameplay loops but can still be rewarding despite that. Mining is my particular thing, but I dabble in most things as and when the mood takes me. Star Citizen is also less solo player focused, it's way more engaging when played with others...even randoms from the live in game chat, there are always new guys looking to expand their experiences through teaming up with other players, new or not.

The longer term players will usually offer help in many forms...trying out ships, suggesting workarounds for common bugs, gifting credits to get you started or just flying along with you in your ship or theirs to share bounties, complete delivery missions or try out mining...anything. If you have any questions or encounter issues...just ask in the chat, it's very socially oriented compared to ED, especially through the live global chat. It has a very small play area comprising of only one system although there's still a fair bit to see and do.

Most of the gameplay is beset by interminable bugs, server instability and server/client desync...which has gone on for several patches now and getting worse rather than improving. This, more than anything else, will dictate what your experience will be like...

It's...different. Many of us like what Star Citizen has to offer with some of the things you mentioned, some don't. I like both games for very different reasons...that's OK too :)
 
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Of particular note is that I can opt out of PvP in Elite by playing in solo mode. I've no interest in PvP, but I don't know if Star Citizen allows me to opt out.

If Star Citizen can't offer me these things... I may be better off staying with Elite.
No opt out, but i've not been ganked as a newbie yet.

Funnily enough I was in Port Olisar last night and and PvPers were going at it outside the station. You could see them fighting from the observation deck inside which was pretty cool, and global chat was giving a running commentary. I was coming in to dock at the time, flew alongside this spontaneous combat zone, so fairly wary about being drawn in, but nope completely ignored.
It was all consensual PvP and all in good humour.


Mole already answered you, and yes the game isn't fully fleshed out, exploration especially. One thing one can not do in SC is Fuel Ratting - which was my primary activity in elite - still it may happen one day and probably not an issue for the majority of people looking at joining SC, apart from that it's good enough to Elite for me.
Big plus points: it is actively being developed (* queue "discussion"); it's got ship interiors; it's different / grass-is-greener to Elite.

I honestly dont know the longevity, but if nothing else it's very interesting to see what is possible, and contrast that with what FDev say is their vision of a space-ship game. For now i have no regrets paying for a basic pledge ship package.
 
Never say never...as it goes. Joined an Org after nearly 6 years of avoiding them. It came about after @Intrepid3D heard one of the members mention my name on the org Discord channel... strange as that may be. After popping on to the discord channel as a guest last night, it seems I knew quite a few of the folks in there already from in game or from the testing chat on Spectrum so they sent me an invite. Cracking bunch of blokes...all quite mad too :D

View attachment 250307

You've joined the crazy bunch!
 
Or, just buy a base ship and then earn the Mole in game.
That's what I had planned to do. I figured I'd get the Aurora package, then work up to the Mole. I had also considered the Constellation for exploring, but I figured I'd do the Mole first, since I know exploration isn't fully developed yet. Of course, I still don't know how developed mining is... and I really don't like the idea of getting suddenly ganked by some PvP douchebag getting his jollies by killing someone who can't defend himself.
As I say, I can still play Elite as I'm used to doing. It's just disappointing that there are still no ship interiors and that planets and stations are so underwhelming.
 
That's what I had planned to do. I figured I'd get the Aurora package, then work up to the Mole. I had also considered the Constellation for exploring, but I figured I'd do the Mole first, since I know exploration isn't fully developed yet. Of course, I still don't know how developed mining is... and I really don't like the idea of getting suddenly ganked by some PvP douchebag getting his jollies by killing someone who can't defend himself.
As I say, I can still play Elite as I'm used to doing. It's just disappointing that there are still no ship interiors and that planets and stations are so underwhelming.

Ok, as much as it pains me to say this, it might be worth paying a little extra to get the Asp.. erm.. Nomad. Because the other starter ships are a bit pants.

Of course, that's how it starts. A bit more for the Nomad. Oh, look, another ship is on sale, if i trade in my Nomad i can upgrade to another ship for just a bit more. And within a few months you are coincierge and your wife is asking where all the money has gone. :p
 
Do like the way the company shares design philosophy, quite refreshing community engagement: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...-3-14-patch-watch-ships-and-thrusters-tuning/
Big plus points: it is actively being developed (* queue "discussion")
One thing one can not do in SC is Fuel Ratting - which was my primary activity in elite

Although they absolutely are adding stuff with each update, some of it becomes a bit of a blur of reworks and dropped items at times. A mix of the standard vagaries of development, and CIG's habit of pitching big but delivering less than that ;)

On the bigger end there's stuff like features being lined up and then not arriving for years. (Fuel Rat style Refueling was infamously roadmapped for 2017, and then almost every year inbetween, but is still yet to arrive ;). Bad news for owners of the $300 Starfarer, as it remains a giant shiny hull alone...)

In terms of details and deliverables, the vehicles team have probably been the most consistent in recent years at getting actual stuff out. But it's hard to look at that breakdown you posted, and not think of, say, this dev dive from 2014, covering design ideas leveraging very much the same stuff (thruster behaviour, the previous power triangle implementation etc)

Something I didn't get into in my original post is multipurpose thrusters. At this point, most thrusters in SC are multipurpose. What that means is that they can provide a variety of functions. Typically you'll have a thruster, such as an upper Hornet thruster, that can function as both a maneuvering thruster and an attitude control thruster. In fact, the front upper Hornet thrusters can function as maneuvering, attitude control and retro. For this type of thruster, it can use 100% of its capacity for maneuvering, but maybe only 50% for attitude control/rotation, based on thruster efficiency. The thrusters have always had designations for thruster modes of main, retro, maneuver and orientation (what I call attitude control). Every thruster in the game today can function as one or more of these types. I'm adding support for strafe thrusters as well so we can provide more control over strafe characteristics of ships independent of other thrust actions like maneuvering which is otherwise very similar. As it is, ships all tend to behave basically the same in strafe control modes. We'd like some ships to be superior at strafe, and some inferior.

Once we get the power triangle balanced, the give-and-take between thrusters and other systems will be significant. If you want to fly with all maneuvering thrusters and forego mains (assuming that's even an option within the game), the trade-off is likely going to be less firepower or shield power, etc. There will be consequences. Ships are designed this way for a reason.

It will be challenging to properly balance ships with thruster specialization, but without the ability to isolate thrust actions and tune them independently, it would be impossible to achieve the unique control behaviors we're after with so many different ships.

Just to illustrate the challenges of treating all thrusters the same, let's look at the Hornet. Suppose you want the Hornet to stop in half the time it takes to reach maximum forward speed. The Hornet uses the four front thrusters for retro. This defines the thrust capacity for these thrusters. Let's say they're all the same, so 4xManeuver=1/2*Main where Maneuver is the thrust of each maneuvering thruster and Main is the thrust of the main thruster. So each maneuvering thruster has 1/8th as much thrust as the main. Now look at side thrust for arresting a turn. Two thrusters come into play for a pure yawing turn. So you have 1/4th as much thrust in the turn as you have for forward acceleration, which means you'll arrest a 90 degree turn in 4x the amount of time it takes to accelerate to full speed. Say you reach max speed in 2.5 seconds (and I consider that too fast), it'll take you 10 seconds to stop sliding in a 90 degree turn. That's generally considered too much slide. And in addition to that, you're going to have massive rotational acceleration because those powerful maneuvering thrusters are also what turns the ship (this depends to some degree on distance to center of mass, of course). It would be impossible for a ship to have any sense of rotational inertia unless we also want it to slide all over space.

The problem here is that thrusters can serve multiple roles, and if we treat them all the same, then we have no way to independently tune various control behaviors. We'd like to be able to say that a ship is highly maneuverable but has more inertia in a turn, can accelerate forward quickly, but takes longer to come to a stop, etc. If all of these actions are interdependent, you can't adjust one without changing the others. What we'd end up with is a bunch of ships that look different but basically perform the same.

JP





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Oh, and real quick, there is always the backup torque generated by the gyros (as mentioned in a post above). This is more a capitulation to gameplay than a realistic system, I'm afraid. It's just simply necessary to have some attitude and rotational control even if you've lost all of your thrusters. Otherwise you'd just spin out of control. And when a ship starts losing thrusters, it has a small amount of torque to fall back on to provide attitude control and stability. Without it, ship control would degrade much more quickly as you take damage. But the gyro torque is relatively small. If you're rotating under nothing but gyro torque, you'll know it. Even a Hornet feels like a capital ship. It takes forever to spin up to top rotational speed, and just as long to spin back down.


So, yes, gyros are the last fallback for control. If all else fails, you'll have that. Unless you completely lose power (but the power supply for gyros is not yet implemented).

JP

A lot of which has ended up in the bin, or reworked etc. As with many other such forays in the intervening years. (Pritchett's much-touted physics model being essentially sidestepped is a notable outcome).

Like I've got to assume at this point that they're narrowing down on the final variant of all of these things. But with this being HUD rework number 4(?), the second power triangle implementation, and like twist 72 on how the flight model works, (and given they have a mad plan to change the material properties of the ship's make-up, in ways which will alter the fight model, and the damage characteristics discussed in that recent link), I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of this stuff gets reworked completely again in 2 years time ;)

TLDR: The dev detail and flow of additions are nice. But this is the perpetua-alpha. Get comfy, and don't be surprised if it's all depreciated or removed in a few years time ;)
 
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Just wait for a potential release.

Other than PvP or mining.. not much else there and this has been the case for years. As it is, the game is a facade to the storefront window of the cash shop that wants to sell you an endless variety of ships with no gameplay to go with them.

Buyer warning.
 
@Mohenjo You can test now if you can stand the bugs. There is plenty to do and see for the 45 bucks. Contrary to what is said by Xink there is already some gameplays tied to ships and others still lacking. The alpha is better patch after patch.
 
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@Mohenjo You can test now if you can stand the bugs. There is plenty to do and see for the 45 bucks. Contrary to what is said by Xink there is already some gameplays tied to ships and some gameplays still lacking. The alpha is better patch after patch.

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If you're in the wrong instance you will not find me
Patch after patch
If you fall, through the floor, I will be waiting
Patch after patch

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