Make notoriety one way.
Once you get it, you've got it, and as it rises more and more of the honest side of the universe will be locked to you, permanently. Factions won't talk to you, markets won't sell to you, eventually stations won't even let you dock unless they're controlled by a criminal faction, maybe even scramble ATR to get rid of you as soon as you are detected in High Security systems. But the criminal side does the opposite, more black markets appear and you get more money from them, so you have to live on the edges of the galaxy like the low rent crim you are.
Notoriety works, but maybe we can rephrase it and make better sense of it.
We need Fame and Infamy. A player would gain these by playing the game. The more a player does a category of action, the more Fame/Infamy they would get. Fame/Infamy would be based on the Pilot, not the system, or the faction. They would bring it with them, wherever they go, and it would never go away, unless a player acted in a way counter to their existing Fame/Infamy. Fame/Infamy would need to decay, but it shouldn't decay while the player is offline. It should be a slow process that a player can't AFK overnight in private and get a clean slate. Sitting AFK for days should hurt their fame as much as it heals their infamy.
Pilot Rank feels like it should accomplish this, but it only goes one way, and it would just reward older players more, regardless of their in-game decisions.
Different types of systems could offer different perks for fame. A famous bounty hunter wandering into the wild west might not get the most friendly welcome, just like an infamous pirate would get wandering into a high sec. An infamous black marketeer pulling up a chair at high security black market is gonna get the red carpet treatment (if he can get inside).
Different types of minor factions could respond differently to your actions performed for other factions. Doing work for the local crime syndicate is gonna hurt your fame with the law abiding factions, but will improve your fame with other criminal groups.
I'm okay with needing to work to remove notoriety, but not with imprisonment. That's a surefire way to get people to quit.
I've thought that maybe Search and Rescue would be a good way to remove notoriety. Go out and find some NPC distress signals and you'd get a big chunk removed, or you could drop off escape pods for a smaller bonus, but one that could be purchased.
Perhaps the best solution, Imo, would be one where you can get notoriety with particular factions, which then largely prohibits you from their space. For example, say you're an Imperial, you might get Federation notoriety but not Imperial, so you could play freely in Imperial space, but not in Federation space. Then, if you ever wanted to remove your Federation notoriety, you'd need to sneak into Federation systems and do helpful things while being pursued by bounty hunters and the like.
You could even have notoriety give positive impacts elsewhere. For example, Fed Notoriety might give you bonuses in Imp space, and vice versa. Archon Delaine space would give bonuses for notoriety from EVERYWHERE but there.
Oh, and it should probably restrict fleet carrier travel, too. Notoriety's a bit pointless if you can just stick your FC in their core worlds and resupply there at will.
Making players "do the time" for their crimes is not a good approach. Crime is supposed to pay. (it doesn't right now) If you have to deal with pointless tedium every single time you die while living a life of crime, you're either gonna stop being a criminal, or stop playing the game. We aren't trying to reform all the gankers and make them stop ganking. We're trying to make an environment where ganking a defenseless sidewinder is a challenge.
For notoriety (or fame) to work, it shouldn't be faction specific. Minor factions occupy very small spaces. Major factions occupy great space, but I think that limiting it to that wouldn't provide meaningful boundaries. A criminal would just limit their crime to certain faction controlled space and exist consequence free in another.
It might be interesting if you had fame/infamy with major factions and doing work for one could reduce your fame with the others. I don't think that sort of fame would go into infamy, unless you performed actions specifically AGAINST that faction. It'd be hard to describe what actions go for and against a major faction, but I would think that modifier would stack with any other categories of fame.
It would be interesting if your fame with a major faction granted you leniency regarding your infamy.
Agreed that FCs would need to be banned from space that your player is infamous in. If you become infamous in a system, your FC should get evicted to the nearest friendly space.
Doing this would provide some color to the universe. Where you are and what you are doing would actually matter beyond the minor factions you choose to support in the BGS. It would divide the galaxy into law/chaos. This would reduce the size of space that a particular type of player will be in, and make it more likely to meet a like minded player. It is best to encourage players into open by offering more cooperative play, not asking them to tolerate competitive play.
You need bad guys in the game so whilst I agree with permit loss (on destruction) and beefed up security as above, punishing players for playing their own way by inflicting more grind is something I can't agree on.
An obvious idea not mooted for awhile is mode locking PKers to Open and an improved BH system (in fact the ED Recon tool I posted earlier can guide BH to hotspots) to allow CMDR BHs to hunt much more effectively.
One way to circumvent exploits would perhaps be online leaderboards of BH bounties collected (this week, this month, all time) that are only valid if you are "clean".
Likewise, cargo stolen and assets destroyed whilst notorious.
As credits are meaningless to most end game players, they'd be playing for fame and pride.
Probably still be exploitable, but at least would create some good stories.
(Also slightly OT as I m not sure any of this would encourage non open players into open)
Strongly agree that punishing players for playing the game is a bad idea. Crime should exist, and it should pay (well). The life of a criminal shouldn't be an easy one though. And, the life of a criminal who frequents high security areas should be a difficult one.
Painting a target on every criminal's back seems a bit like targeted harassment. Forcing players into open isn't a good thing either. I'm not suggesting we do that for the solo players, and I'm not suggesting that we do it for the people already in open. Tools like ED Recon seem a bit sketchy. I don't think that tracking the position of players outside of their consent is a good thing, regardless of how they choose to play the game.
I don't think that "revenge" or "justice" is the sort of thing that the game should be facilitating. Players shouldn't be putting their own bounties out. Players shouldn't be informed when their killers are brought to justice. Those things don't affect the player's game. A player should be concerned with how their game is affected by their own actions. The game shouldn't try to fix hurt feelings. It should provide a framework where players feel that their interactions are fair and no feelings get hurt.
If an infamous player gets ID'd by anyone (player or AI) in unfriendly space, it should announce the unauthorized entry system wide, and dispatch security based on the level of security. The player's name shouldn't be announced. Knowing there is a dangerous ship in system should be sufficient. The timid can hide, the strong can hunt. If an infamous player can go under the radar, then they should be allowed to do whatever they like. Perhaps your fame within the black market could help you gain entry to those high security stations. Perhaps it may cost a bribe to be allowed to dock there. Responding to the threat as soon as the dangerous player is ID'd would speed a response, and a ganker could be interdicted by system authority BEFORE they get a chance to interdict their target.
Bounty hunters can still go hunting for bounties, and an infamous bounty hunter wandering into a hive of scum and villainy might be met with an announcement of their entry and a welcoming committee from the local criminal organization. But, taking down your target in their own backyard would surely be very rewarding, in both fame and fortune.
AI pilots should also trigger this response. Dangerous AI that enter space should offer similar rewards to dangerous players.
This broader set of Fame/Infamy with friendly and unfriendly space can be expanded to affect many more parts of the game.
Low security systems would get less frequent traders due to the risk involved, so they would have greater demand for goods. A trader who wants to turn that risk into profits can do so and it would be a greater challenge in all game modes. Pirates would be able to make better money on their stolen goods as well. Making dangerous system offer better trade rewards would help make crime pay better. Even stealing low value goods could offer a nice profit at a desperate low security system's black market for a famous pirate.
If a law/chaos powerplay were allowed to shift, we could see some pretty interesting changes across the bubble as the wild west becomes tamed in places and civilization falls apart in others. This dynamic would change the game for much more than just law abiding citizens and criminals. The existing powerplay would also be affected by law/chaos, and maintaining order would be imperative. Undermining the law in your neighbor's back yard would be empowering chaos in your own.
There would be some interesting moral conundrums and in-game consequence for a trader who decides to make a profit by empowering chaos at the expense of law.
It's only punishment in terms of labling it so. Really it's just adding gameplay for them, more of a reward imo
It is punishment if you are forced to play that way when you don't want to do it.
The "grind" isn't rewarding gameplay. We shouldn't pretend that it is.
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