Why ED should ignore the forums and love the silent mob (This is not about the current quality of Odyssey)

[babelfisch]

given it's timing and location in the Odyssey forum I can only presume the OP is referring to the current feedback. I'm old enough to know that most forums are full of complaints, if your product meets your expectations then you don't tend to shout about it.

Therefore the content of the forums isn't necessarily reflective of the whole player base experience and (with the exception of the Odyssey build) should be, in the main, ignored by ED.

Emphasis mine.

 

[Koma Pahu]

given it's timing and location in the Odyssey forum I can only presume the OP is referring to the current feedback. I'm old enough to know that most forums are full of complaints, if your product meets your expectations then you don't tend to shout about it.

My point is it’s nothing new, you can’t just blame the state of Odyssey for people being pedantic.

 

[gooddoc]

NMS was terrible at launch. The "experience" was really bad.
I did play it on PS4 when it launched. I did got some hours of it.
It took them years to fix it.
I never complained about it, but my experience was SO BAD, that I never played it again, not even after all the patches.

That 's my opinion of X4

I bought it at launch & found it impossible to do anything in the UI menu, without being kicked out to desktop.........not played it again after putting up with the continual crashes for 2-3 weeks.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Let's take ship transfers as an example*. First, it resulted in even more complaining and second I am no longer sure if we picked the right choice. I voted for delayed transfers because of immersion, but I am pretty sure that I would have much more fun with the game if I could access all the modules and ships immediately. I ignore most activities because it's simply too much hassle to get the stuff I need, which is parked 200ly away. So was it right or wrong to have delayed ship transfers? Maybe there is no right and wrong for many decisions Frontier made. Apart from the lack of cockpit cats obviously, that continues to be a very bad decision.

*for anyone who doesn't know, originally they wanted to have instant transfer for modules and ships, lots of people complained, Frontier did a huge poll and delayed transfers won by a small margin

And where did FD get the players desire to redo the UI, starmap etc? Did they even ask us if we wanted it, or what they did was useful?

FD wasted hundreds of dev hours that they now are scrabbling to knock into something people won't vomit over using. If they had asked us (and shown mockups etc) before they did it maybe FD would have made something we wanted, and not waste time later on- as well as eliminate the firestorm of criticism EDO has sustained.

The issue here is a lot of people are thinking 'listening' is some binary thing where either FD just go with it or enact what we ask for in totality. Its not like that, but FD need to learn to listen for certain things.

 

[Pigletslastand]

And where did FD get the players desire to redo the UI, starmap etc? Did they even ask us if we wanted it, or what they did was useful?

FD wasted hundreds of dev hours that they now are scrabbling to knock into something people won't vomit over using. If they had asked us (and shown mockups etc) before they did it maybe FD would have made something we wanted, and not waste time later on- as well as eliminate the firestorm of criticism EDO has sustained.

The issue here is a lot of people are thinking 'listening' is some binary thing where either FD just go with it or enact what we ask for in totality. Its not like that, but FD need to learn to listen for certain things.

Could not have put that better myself +1

 

[babelfisch]

And where did FD get the players desire to redo the UI, starmap etc? Did they even ask us if we wanted it, or what they did was useful?

FD wasted hundreds of dev hours that they now are scrabbling to knock into something people won't vomit over using. If they had asked us (and shown mockups etc) before they did it maybe FD would have made something we wanted, and not waste time later on- as well as eliminate the firestorm of criticism EDO has sustained.

The issue here is a lot of people are thinking 'listening' is some binary thing where either FD just go with it or enact what we ask for in totality. Its not like that, but FD need to learn to listen for certain things.

I didn't say they shouldn't listen to feedback, I just wanted to show that things aren't always right or wrong.

 

[Crank Larson]

NMS was terrible at launch. The "experience" was really bad.
I did play it on PS4 when it launched. I did got some hours of it.
It took them years to fix it.
I never complained about it, but my experience was SO BAD, that I never played it again, not even after all the patches.

I played it from launch and enjoyed it straight away. But then, I hadn't watched any of the hype, I just gave it a go. It was a very enjoyable game to begin with (and I go back once in a while to check the updates, which are also great). People simply got upset because it wasn't what they had envisaged (or arguably, what had been promised, but I'm not sure that promising dreams should really be taken too seriously...).

 

[Rubbernuke]

I didn't say they shouldn't listen to feedback, I just wanted to show that things aren't always right or wrong.

True, but as ED has grown FD seem to have stopped listening, leading up to EDO and for many a big letdown.

 

[babelfisch]

True, but as ED has grown FD seem to have stopped listening, leading up to EDO and for many a big letdown.

For me EDO is actually the first expansion that adds some good content in a long time. So I hope they continue going in that direction, the missions are better than anything they have done so far. The biggest problem for me is performance and bugs (as always...).

 

[Pigletslastand]

I really like the stealth missions and assasinations etc. I actually think the AI is quite good! but it needs better integration into the main game and "sphere of combat"?? where is it??

 

[Deleted member 182079]

That 's my opinion of X4

I bought it at launch & found it impossible to do anything in the UI menu, without being kicked out to desktop.........not played it again after putting up with the continual crashes for 2-3 weeks.

Your opinion is out of date I'd say.

I bought the X4 complete edition during a recent sale and things have been going swimmingly. Playing at Ultra settings @2k (but with AA turned off, that's an fps killer) and it's very smooth & stable, even in busy places (and they sure are busy). Been playing for about 30 hours now and not a single CTD so far.

The UI reminds me a lot of SAP. Not the most intuitive or pretty for sure, but it works (no softlocks, dead buttons etc.). Just takes a while to get your head around but once it clicks it's pretty decent given the underlying complexities of the game it needs to cover.

 

[Rubbernuke]

For me EDO is actually the first expansion that adds some good content in a long time. So I hope they continue going in that direction, the missions are better than anything they have done so far. The biggest problem for me is performance and bugs (as always...).

And for me FD did too much on foot- they totally neglected the space part, and all the lingering issues people waited to be fixed. So now we have two shallow halves of a game, yet more foundations.

Seasons with the quarterly updates at least had variety. What did EDO bring to someone like me? Nothing.

 

[Pigletslastand]

Game is frustratingly close to amazing, with features begging to be expanded on but instead they always choose to add new features and leave the rest unfinished or broken.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

And for me FD did too much on foot- they totally neglected the space part, and all the lingering issues people waited to be fixed. So now we have two shallow halves of a game, yet more foundations.

Seasons with the quarterly updates at least had variety. What did EDO bring to someone like me? Nothing.

I'd say they'll go for base building next. Which will probably also add next to nothing to the spaceship flying bit of the game, but just think about the Arx potential.

 

[babelfisch]

Yeah as someone with actual (though relatively minor) OCD I find the original post of this thread is just more stupid than anything, but maybe I've spent enough time on the internet that I'm numbed to rubbish like this now. It is really easy to tell when someone has no idea what OCD actually is though.

As I said earlier, I guess it's similar to saying someone is blind without him actually being blind. I have no idea how it is to be blind, but I did ask people if they are blind when they didn't see the issue. I don't know if it's cool or not, maybe people are hurt by it or just find it stupid. On the other hand, the world has bigger problems and I am not sure if being politically correct all the time helps.

 

[babelfisch]

And for me FD did too much on foot- they totally neglected the space part, and all the lingering issues people waited to be fixed. So now we have two shallow halves of a game, yet more foundations.

Seasons with the quarterly updates at least had variety. What did EDO bring to someone like me? Nothing.

Yes, that's another reason why things aren't always right or wrong. They could've spend less time on the on foot stuff, let's say remove the terminals, but make a PP overhaul instead. You would probably be happy about it but my experience would be worse. I can't think of something they could remove from Odyssey without making it worse. I can think about many things they could add to it though...

PS
To be fair, I believe most things you are asking for PP are pretty simple and could be easily integrated without major dev time, so maybe it's not the best comparision.

 

[Stikkit]

I'd say they'll go for base building next. Which will probably also add next to nothing to the spaceship flying bit of the game, but just think about the Arx potential.

I hope not. Not because it's a bad concept, it's that they cant even get Odyssey to run properly now, imagine adding in base building...

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yes, that's another reason why things aren't always right or wrong. They could've spend less time on the on foot stuff, let's say remove the terminals, but make a PP overhaul instead. You would probably be happy about it but my experience would be worse. I can't think of something they could remove from Odyssey without making it worse. I can think about many things they could add to it though...

PS
To be fair, I believe most things you are asking for PP are pretty simple and could be easily integrated without major dev time, so maybe it's not the best comparision.

Its not that- FD could have:

fixed megaship piracy
added new ships to CQC that are already in game / added new areas from Odyssey
Powerplay
Blueprint balance
Ship balance
Module balance
Actually made station concourses properly reflect the BGS
Add new mission templates / wrinkles in space
Fixed a load of old bugs

A lot of these involve no new assets, or repurposing existing ones. How many of those could have gone in if FD had saved time over the UI, beta feedback etc? A massive spring clean rebalance would be an ideal use of the beta. Even if FD spent just one month out of the 24 they spent on EDO that would have done far more good for the game.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'd say they'll go for base building next. Which will probably also add next to nothing to the spaceship flying bit of the game, but just think about the Arx potential.

I just want to fly spaceships in a proper Elite game, one where I have to balance greed and advancement with survival. It seems thats too much to ask.

 

[Pigletslastand]

They took a whole year out to supposedly fix bugs.. look how that went, I have no faith they could accomplish much in a month without a sword of damacles over their heads

Would be nice if they did what you said though.