Why ED should ignore the forums and love the silent mob (This is not about the current quality of Odyssey)

[Morbad]

Frontier should do whatever makes them the most money. That is it's purpose. That's what it's stake holders and employees are ultimately after. I'm sure they know what needs to be done to achieve this this better than almost anyone, certainly better than 'the forum'.

Their customers or potential customers should probably refrain from purchasing products that do not offer the gameplay they enjoy. Personally, I haven't been able to justify a further purchase from Frontier in the last three years. I extract what enjoyment I can where I can, but the gameplay I enjoy most has been neglected, degraded, and gradually stripped away, not improved upon. I don't plan on uninstalling the game (I have plenty of drive space), but I'm playing less and less of it, and haven't seen fit to dust off my good controls in some time.

It seems thats too much to ask.

It is. It's too niche.

The majority seem to want a trickle of serialized low-effort content delivered for their consumption. Why spend time developing good systems so that players can entertain themselves and each other when you know they will settle for bad ones and pay for the next thing regardless?

They may have gone a step too far with Odyssey's launch, but people have shown immense tolerance, and the bar has certainly been lowered as a result.

They took a whole year out to supposedly fix bugs.. look how that went, I have no faith they could accomplish much in a month without a sword of damacles over their heads

If push comes to shove, it's usually simpler just to cut one's losses and move on to the next thing.

 

[Pigletslastand]

The majority seem to want a trickle of serialized low-effort content delivered for their consumption. Why spend time developing good systems so that players can entertain themselves and each other when you know they will settle for bad ones and pay for the next thing regardless?

Because Braben's aim is to want to be the most respected entertainment company in the world, watched a finance interview with him yesterday and he corrected the guy.. not the most successful but the most respected, he wants it to be quality and loved more than most. Going a funny way about it I might add, but here's hoping he makes good on his intentions!

 

[Royston Hill]

If push comes to shove, it's usually simpler just to cut one's losses and move on to the next thing.

Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate – Daemonhunters [there's that word "gate" again. Becoming a trend, like "pathway" and "honest"]

 

[Morbad]

Because Braben's aim is to want to be the most respected entertainment company in the world, watched a finance interview with him yesterday and he corrected the guy.. not the most successful but the most respected, he wants it to be quality and loved more than most. Going a funny way about it I might add, but here's hoping he makes good on his intentions!

Nothing is more respected in business than financial success.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I hope not. Not because it's a bad concept, it's that they cant even get Odyssey to run properly now, imagine adding in base building...

Well... I'm not a big base building fan myself - the games in my library that feature it (Fallout 4, NMS, X4) I only dipped my toes in it very briefly (although I can see myself getting more into it with X4 as those are space stations, not buildings i.e. different scope) as I don't have a lot of interest in that kind of stuff but can see how others would.

It would make sense though as it builds on Elite Feet, the possibilities for Arx-funded vanity items are near limitless (though FDev could've already done more in terms of cockpit customisation, yet they left that money on the floor so to speak) and... well it doesn't have anything to do with the spaceship part of the game And the possibility that it'll make the game run and glitch out even worse is probably just a bonus lol.

(note I'm not entirely serious about the above but ... wouldn't put it past FDev either way looking at Odyssey now)

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Yes, that's another reason why things aren't always right or wrong. They could've spend less time on the on foot stuff, let's say remove the terminals, but make a PP overhaul instead. You would probably be happy about it but my experience would be worse. I can't think of something they could remove from Odyssey without making it worse. I can think about many things they could add to it though...

PS
To be fair, I believe most things you are asking for PP are pretty simple and could be easily integrated without major dev time, so maybe it's not the best comparision.

I guess what it essentially boils down to is why a Horizons-only player who isn't interested in on-foot gameplay should buy Odyssey.

The planet tech will get hoisted onto his copy eventually, and whether someone values a coloured skybox when planetside enough to fork out 40 notes depends on the individual I suppose.

I'd have to lie if I said I didn't hope at least a tiny bit for more content beyond on-foot stuff in the form of new vehicles (ships, SRVs, a new gameplay loop whatever that may be) - when FDev suggested "there'll be more!!" after the Alpha I didn't realise what they meant was "more of the same". I still think that we'll eventually get Thargoids-on-foot but that's most likely going to be as ring-fenced as the rest of EDO's new content. Which is my main beef with the DLC from a purely gameplay perspective.

That's on top of the various fixes/improvements (tm) that @Rubbernuke mentioned - you can't really monetize those through a DLC as both Horizons & Odyssey players would (and should) benefit from those either way. But yeah, I expected at least some of those things to be addressed in EDO (megaships were one of the first things I visited during the Alpha).

 

[babelfisch]

Its not that- FD could have:

fixed megaship piracy
added new ships to CQC that are already in game / added new areas from Odyssey
Powerplay
Blueprint balance
Ship balance
Module balance
Actually made station concourses properly reflect the BGS
Add new mission templates / wrinkles in space
Fixed a load of old bugs

A lot of these involve no new assets, or repurposing existing ones. How many of those could have gone in if FD had saved time over the UI, beta feedback etc? A massive spring clean rebalance would be an ideal use of the beta. Even if FD spent just one month out of the 24 they spent on EDO that would have done far more good for the game.

Scrap all that and make it NPC wings & crew and I agree.

PS
And cockpit cats

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Let's take ship transfers as an example*. First, it resulted in even more complaining and second I am no longer sure if we picked the right choice. I voted for delayed transfers because of immersion, but I am pretty sure that I would have much more fun with the game if I could access all the modules and ships immediately. I ignore most activities because it's simply too much hassle to get the stuff I need, which is parked 200ly away. So was it right or wrong to have delayed ship transfers? Maybe there is no right and wrong for many decisions Frontier made. Apart from the lack of cockpit cats obviously, that continues to be a very bad decision.

*for anyone who doesn't know, originally they wanted to have instant transfer for modules and ships, lots of people complained, Frontier did a huge poll and delayed transfers won by a small margin

Most of it is just subjective personal opinion. What I like, someone else doesn't.

 

[Franc Kaos]

Frontier should do whatever makes them the most money. That is it's purpose. That's what it's stake holders and employees are ultimately after. I'm sure they know what needs to be done to achieve this this better than almost anyone, certainly better than 'the forum'.

That's why player numbers have fallen off a cliff?
I rather doubt David Braben would've resorted to three faux apology posts over the Odyssey release for any other reason - maybe too many refunds or losing their Youtube influencers, certainly not from the wailing and gnashing of teeth on the forums...

 

[Rubbernuke]

I guess what it essentially boils down to is why a Horizons-only player who isn't interested in on-foot gameplay should buy Odyssey.

The planet tech will get hoisted onto his copy eventually, and whether someone values a coloured skybox when planetside enough to fork out 40 notes depends on the individual I suppose.

I'd have to lie if I said I didn't hope at least a tiny bit for more content beyond on-foot stuff in the form of new vehicles (ships, SRVs, a new gameplay loop whatever that may be) - when FDev suggested "there'll be more!!" after the Alpha I didn't realise what they meant was "more of the same". I still think that we'll eventually get Thargoids-on-foot but that's most likely going to be as ring-fenced as the rest of EDO's new content. Which is my main beef with the DLC from a purely gameplay perspective.

That's on top of the various fixes/improvements (tm) that @Rubbernuke mentioned - you can't really monetize those through a DLC as both Horizons & Odyssey players would (and should) benefit from those either way. But yeah, I expected at least some of those things to be addressed in EDO (megaships were one of the first things I visited during the Alpha).

I waited two bloody years and got sod all I want, or just FD maintaining what they made.

No other game I play seems to make small regular updates and tweaks some sort of religious flagellation- and tell us exactly what they changed and tested it with us beforehand.

 

[Pigletslastand]

I'd honestly just say it as you said it.. I don't think the people that have it care that much to go eee over a well meaning comment.

 

[Royston Hill]

P.S. genuine question - we all know what is typically meant on a forum like this when someone says that something "triggers their OCD" ... what's the politically correct way of saying that?

"That bothers me"

 

[Alec Turner]

"That bothers me"

Nah, it's more nuanced than that. It's about some fine level of detail bothering you when you know it shouldn't (for example the fact that the shield percentage display on the HUD is about 2 degrees out of alignment with the ship hologram above it).

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I waited two bloody years and got sod all I want, or just FD maintaining what they made.

No other game I play seems to make small regular updates and tweaks some sort of religious flagellation- and tell us exactly what they changed and tested it with us beforehand.

Or the balancing exercise that we were half way through early this year, and that stopped after mining and combat. Unless I'm missing something here. Never to be mentioned again iirc.

Plus it's not just the content but also how the game changed its appearance (I'm gonna leave performance out of this point because I hope that'll get sorted eventually). In my view, for the worse (there are exceptions to this, but they're in the minority). Can't think of any other game in my library where an optional DLC update changed the base game so fundamentally (not even mentioning the regression/new bugs).

It's quite weird in that because they postponed the Horizons/Odyssey tech merge we have two quite different looking games side by side currently - if I was in the market for a space game it'd make sense on paper to go all-in with EDO, but Horizons is (to me at least) still the better looking game. Since it's (presumably) temporary I suppose this situation will sort itself out in the end, and completely new players say next year will be none the wiser (and to be fair, wouldn't even be right now, unless they did some research first - or bought Horizons first, and a short while later 'upgraded' to Odyssey).

 

[Rubbernuke]

Or the balancing exercise that we were half way through early this year, and that stopped after mining and combat. Unless I'm missing something here. Never to be mentioned again iirc.

Plus it's not just the content but also how the game changed its appearance (I'm gonna leave performance out of this point because I hope that'll get sorted eventually). In my view, for the worse (there are exceptions to this, but they're in the minority). Can't think of any other game in my library where an optional DLC update changed the base game so fundamentally (not even mentioning the regression/new bugs).

It's quite weird in that because they postponed the Horizons/Odyssey tech merge we have two quite different looking games side by side currently - if I was in the market for a space game it'd make sense on paper to go all-in with EDO, but Horizons is (to me at least) still the better looking game. Since it's (presumably) temporary I suppose this situation will sort itself out in the end, and completely new players say next year will be none the wiser (and to be fair, wouldn't even be right now, unless they did some research first - or bought Horizons first, and a short while later 'upgraded' to Odyssey).

Its why over time I think ED does not have a dedicated team behind it, and FD hotdesking around games they develop. Why else would small balance tweaks be so sporadic?

 

[hunvagy]

Or the balancing exercise that we were half way through early this year, and that stopped after mining and combat. Unless I'm missing something here. Never to be mentioned again iirc.

Plus it's not just the content but also how the game changed its appearance (I'm gonna leave performance out of this point because I hope that'll get sorted eventually). In my view, for the worse (there are exceptions to this, but they're in the minority). Can't think of any other game in my library where an optional DLC update changed the base game so fundamentally (not even mentioning the regression/new bugs).

It's quite weird in that because they postponed the Horizons/Odyssey tech merge we have two quite different looking games side by side currently - if I was in the market for a space game it'd make sense on paper to go all-in with EDO, but Horizons is (to me at least) still the better looking game. Since it's (presumably) temporary I suppose this situation will sort itself out in the end, and completely new players say next year will be none the wiser (and to be fair, wouldn't even be right now, unless they did some research first - or bought Horizons first, and a short while later 'upgraded' to Odyssey).

Ohh boy, then I do not recommend you go anywhere near the ETS or ATS forums. After 1.40 and the lighting changes hit, there was "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" all day about days being bright ,and nights being dark. Oh and every single time there's a new version, and mods break, people descend upon the forums to tell everyone how bad the game is, because it doesn't start, and SCS never should have released an update since xyz version.

So there's a whole spectrum of reactions in every game forum out there, but I admit, some decisions since EDO have me baffled, or even since Beyond.

 

[Morbad]

That's why player numbers have fallen off a cliff?
I rather doubt David Braben would've resorted to three faux apology posts over the Odyssey release for any other reason - maybe too many refunds or losing their Youtube influencers, certainly not from the wailing and gnashing of teeth on the forums...

I'm not saying Frontier hasn't failed in their goals with Odyssey. I'm saying that neither the collective nor individual desires of the player base, let alone the forum subset, are likely to align with Frontier's.

The player vs. publisher relationship (just like any other buyer/seller relationship) is always going to be a fundamentally antagonistic one, no matter how one dresses it up with the trappings of community.

 

[babelfisch]

P.S. genuine question - we all know what is typically meant on a forum like this when someone says that something "triggers their OCD" ... what's the politically correct way of saying that?

It triggers the Monk in me? It's basically the same, but if people still get upset you probably can't help them.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Ohh boy, then I do not recommend you go anywhere near the ETS or ATS forums. After 1.40 and the lighting changes hit, there was "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" all day about days being bright ,and nights being dark. Oh and every single time there's a new version, and mods break, people descend upon the forums to tell everyone how bad the game is, because it doesn't start, and SCS never should have released an update since xyz version.

So there's a whole spectrum of reactions in every game forum out there, but I admit, some decisions since EDO have me baffled, or even since Beyond.

Heh, I own both but can't remember a distinct difference - but I'm also not playing them that often, and haven't used mods for that reason for a while. I'd rather give SCS the reign of Elite though these days... I always feel updates add to their games as opposed to make them worse.

And living on forums is a bad idea anyways - should follow my own advice here really lol.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I just want to fly spaceships in a proper Elite game, one where I have to balance greed and advancement with survival. It seems thats too much to ask.

Just play the 1984 version