Level 3 engineering everywhere?

[Teh Smoo]

How would it affect the game if any engineering station could do jobs up to level 3, no special effects? IMO, this would be positive.

Special mods and 4-5 ranks are still a good reason to unlock engineers, but this would allow fresh ships (and commanders) to be MOSTLY as powerful as grade 5 ships.

 

[GroG79]

Grade 5 is on average only 15% higher in stats Vs G3. The pilot makes the real difference

Anyways; thanks for the suggestion!

 

[metatheurgist]

You can already do that with pinned blueprints.

 

[FX2K]

You can already do that with pinned blueprints.

This.
No experimental effects ofc, but its not restricted to G3.
Luckily most engineers do multiple things and overlap with others, so you can generally pin everything needed to get you going.
Also, when pinned, in the inventory you get an icon next to the material, if its used in a pinned blueprint, which is handy.

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

It would make the long range mod one of the most popular mods then since theres really not much difference between G1 and 5. I think it should really stay the same as it is tbh. Felicity martook and tod are pretty easy to unlock anyway

 

[Teh Smoo]

It would make the long range mod one of the most popular mods then since theres really not much difference between G1 and 5. I think it should really stay the same as it is tbh. Felicity martook and tod are pretty easy to unlock anyway

Long range is already the most popular FSD mod, by overwhelming consensus. That has nothing to do with anything. Plus, you can BUY a better-than-G5 size 5 FSD anyway. For materials.

And Felicity being easy to unlock is also irrelevant. Yes, so? A new player still has to unlock them, and being able to slap on G1-G2 for their very first FSD? I would have liked that a bunch when I was first starting up.

That's my point- a new player WITHOUT engineers will get G1-G3 and more options. Then, they still want engineers for pinned blueprints and special effects, they just get extra engineering stuff to get it. Plus, players get to experiment with engineering for cheap materials.

If G3 is powerful, then they should get it because games should be more or less fair. If G3 is irrelevant, they should ALSO get it because why not, it's just a small bone for new players.

And for existing players? You could choose a specific non-pinned recipe and get G3, without having to pop over to an engineer. A minor thing.

 

[gorankar]

A new player without engineers unlocked can already get a double G5, (fast boot / increased range), size 5 FSD for mats only at a tech broker. That is the size of FSD used in some of the best exploration ships in the game, DBX, AspX, and Krait Phantom, as well as 2 of the most versatile, the Python/KraitII.
The easy button already exists in this case.

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

Long range is already the most popular FSD mod, by overwhelming consensus. That has nothing to do with anything. Plus, you can BUY a better-than-G5 size 5 FSD anyway. For materials.

I was referring to the laser modification though I should have specified it tbh.

And Felicity being easy to unlock is also irrelevant. Yes, so? A new player still has to unlock them, and being able to slap on G1-G2 for their very first FSD? I would have liked that a bunch when I was first starting up.

It is relevant and said new player also has to gather materials.

That's my point- a new player WITHOUT engineers will get G1-G3 and more options. Then, they still want engineers for pinned blueprints and special effects, they just get extra engineering stuff to get it. Plus, players get to experiment with engineering for cheap materials.

If G3 is powerful, then they should get it because games should be more or less fair.

No. They have the same engineers we all do with the same unlocks we all do and will grind just as we all did. Everyone has the horizons DLC for free now so everyone is on an even playing field. Fast tracking new players out of the gate is unfair to everyone else.

If G3 is irrelevant, they should ALSO get it because why not, it's just a small bone for new players.

And for existing players? You could choose a specific non-pinned recipe and get G3, without having to pop over to an engineer. A minor thing.

I'm not debating if G3 is powerful or not. I've already answered that it is. Experienced players understand that it's the experimental effects that really make the big difference at least where combat is concerned. So ultimately you'll have to unlock the engineers anyway. I just think your suggestion tips the balance too far.

 

[Teh Smoo]

I was referring to the laser modification though I should have specified it tbh.

It is relevant and said new player also has to gather materials.

No. They have the same engineers we all do with the same unlocks we all do and will grind just as we all did. Everyone has the horizons DLC for free now so everyone is on an even playing field. Fast tracking new players out of the gate is unfair to everyone else.

I'm not debating if G3 is powerful or not. I've already answered that it is. Experienced players understand that it's the experimental effects that really make the big difference at least where combat is concerned. So ultimately you'll have to unlock the engineers anyway. I just think your suggestion tips the balance too far.

I'm just going to join all your divide-and-conquer responses. Please learn how to make a cohesive point instead of responding to each paragraph individually, it makes it hard to read. Or take seriously.

And a new player gathering some iron or phosphorus for that first level is pretty easy, right? It's not very good form to say "well, I suffered, so other people must suffer as well!" You have G5 and unlocked engineers, new players having G3 doesn't affect your gameplay AT ALL. Unless you want to gank un-engineered newbie ships, which is even WORSE form.

And you know? You restated my exact point. This DOESN'T replace the engineer grind, it just lets new players approach it with better ships.

 

[Q GT70]

so you mean just allow g3 engineering for everyone, even if they have not yet unlocked a single engineer?

was it that hard?

you don't even need engineering to enjoy the game.

learning is a part of any game.
getting stuff for free usually teaches nothing.
making decisions is part of the game
making ones that save time are useful.
there are soo many choices a person can make.

it would be nice to jump into a fully engineered vette and cutter on day 1 too..
the line is drawn where it is drawn for a reason.
for any game.

this is the I want a big red WIN button.
you got it.
you won.
yer stuffz is waiting for you in RAXXLA

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

Please learn how to make a cohesive point instead of responding to each paragraph individually, it makes it hard to read. Or take seriously.

Objectively it is easier to read as I can highlight the exact phrase I'm addressing.

And a new player gathering some iron or phosphorus for that first level is pretty easy, right? It's not very good form to say "well, I suffered, so other people must suffer as well!"

Straw man argument. The phrasing I used was "tips the balance too far". To be honest I wouldn't mind as much if you had suggested G1 instead but G3 is too unbalanced.

You have G5 and unlocked engineers, new players having G3 doesn't affect your gameplay AT ALL.

It does if a group of week old players gang up on me with full G3 engineered Vultures.

Unless you want to gank un-engineered newbie ships, which is even WORSE form.

So because I disagre with you I'm a ganker? Great Argument there.

And you know? You restated my exact point.

This would be an example of an appropriate time to use the quoting system you chastized me earlier for using.

 

[gorankar]

Even in combat, a new player in a fully G3 engineered meta FDL is still gonna die if they get mixed up with people with any skills. And they will be practically instagibbed by those that live the meta PvP gank life.
Are you looking for some sort of symmetry in PvP or PvE combat OP? Because, that doesn't really exist in this game outside of negotiated duels.

 

[Teh Smoo]

Even in combat, a new player in a fully G3 engineered meta FDL is still gonna die if they get mixed up with people with any skills. And they will be practically instagibbed by those that live the meta PvP gank life.
Are you looking for some sort of symmetry in PvP or PvE combat OP? Because, that doesn't really exist in this game outside of negotiated duels.

It's not supposed to do anything magical. Just that old players could get G3 in blueprints they don't have pinned. And new players can engineer stuff before jumping through the hoops.

Objectively it is easier to read as I can highlight the exact phrase I'm addressing.

Straw man argument. The phrasing I used was "tips the balance too far". To be honest I wouldn't mind as much if you had suggested G1 instead but G3 is too unbalanced.

It does if a group of week old players gang up on me with full G3 engineered Vultures.

So because I disagre with you I'm a ganker? Great Argument there.

This would be an example of an appropriate time to use the quoting system you chastized me earlier for using.

I said IF you wanted to gank newbies. You apparently took that personally. Other people not having to do a grind (or at least, not all of the grind at once) that I benefitted from a long time ago... would not affect ME at all.

And yes, 3v1 means you tend to lose. But they could just grind out engineers in solo and go to open and gang up on you anyway.

You do bring up a good point, obliquely. It could be tied to rank. As you rank up to milestones, it could give engineering grades as a reward? Mostly Harmless/etc. gets you G1, Competent/Dealer/Surveyor gets you G2, Master/Broker/Pathfinder gets you G3?

 

[Kwoung]

I would be okay with the OP's change, but only if they put a 250K per level price tag on any engineering you wanted done without having unlocked the engineer. So 750K for a level 3 unmodded upgrade, sure.

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

I’m not too sure about this. I know others see it different (the much debated grind) but as I see it the engineer unlock requirements are meant to get you to sample all the different aspects of Horizons gameplay (I can’t speak for Odyssey as a console peasant).

Personally I’ve never felt ‘forced’ into doing stuff I didn’t want to do to unlock engineers, as I do them when I fancy. I could see allowing G1 mods as being ‘introductory’ to the engineering system, but G3 unlocked by default seems over-powerful and negates the need to think about unlocking engineers; I’ve had some good fun recently unlocking Lei Chung and Palin doing some trade runs and Thargoid sensor hunting.