Big Elite Streamers Giving Up On Streaming Elite?

[Agony_Aunt]

Alright, lets go with your example. You P2W you way to the best ships. You no longer need credits. So what do you do in SC next?
Explore the gala.... nope can't do it, just one Star System.
Fight for a faction to raise their influence in the System?
Fight for a local Warlord to take over some Settlements or Bases on the groud? Perhapes a Space Station in Space?
Engage in a Massive PvP conflict zone for the Player Orgazations control over a piece of land or Space Structure?
Discover rare species on the planets?

What is the end game for you, after your ship grind is over via click of your credit card?

Well, technically speaking, you still need to upgrade you ships. So there is a need to grind (or not grind) there to get the upgrades.

Except... CIG have said they will continue to sell UEC even after release... so, suppose you can just buy yourself the upgrades.

Technically speaking, the amount you can buy per month is meant to be limited, but easy to get around that, just use alt accounts or friend accounts and transfer the credits over.

 

[RJ-KNUCKLES]

Alright, lets go with your example. You P2W you way to the best ships. You no longer need credits. So what do you do in SC next?
Explore the gala.... nope can't do it, just one Star System.
Fight for a faction to raise their influence in the System?
Fight for a local Warlord to take over some Settlements or Bases on the groud? Perhapes a Space Station in Space?
Engage in a Massive PvP conflict zone for the Player Orgazations control over a piece of land or Space Structure?
Discover rare species on the planets?

What is the end game for you, after your ship grind is over via click of your credit card?

Explore, you got me there
Fight for a faction, yes
Fight for a local warlord to control a station, yes
Massive PvP, bigger then ED (player cap in a singal instance is lower in ED then SC)
Discover rare species, nope but Chris Roberts thinks stairing at plants as a game play loop is boring

 

[Lysette]

Star Citizen will always release in current_year+2. That's been the state for the last 8 years.

As for release, i'm not so sure. I mean, you could call the current alpha a kind of release. And they could also go for early access type release. CR has been on record saying it is effectively released, from his interview with Gamestar in 2017 (i think it was) where he said in respond to a question about a 1.0 release "What do you mean 1.0? We've got 3.0 coming out soon!", to more recently "playable now narrative". But then he also says "It will be done when its done".

My guess is, as long as funding continues, it will be eternal alpha for years, then slowly moving to MVP/EA release, but never a hard release. To do a hard release would mean losing their shield of "ITS ALPHA" and also start raising questions from people as to where are all the promised stretch goals. They did sell people on 110 systems. It will also get people saying 500 million (or whatever the sum is by then, they are close to that now) for this????

yeah that was my argument so far as well - a release will be finally judged, an alpha, beta or early access won't in the same way.

 

[StanleyDunkan]

Fight for a faction, yes
Fight for a local warlord to control a station, yes
Massive PvP, bigger then ED (player cap in a singal instance is lower in ED then SC)

I would really like to see that.
Also the third point - Random organized PvP not supported by game mechanics - is kind of forcing your self to do something that not really there yet. I have seen videos of people doing it, it was fun to see Combat vechicles in action - but i haven't seen any support from developers in to that gameplay. Good potential thou, but just like everything in the verse.

 

[Lysette]

Discover rare species, nope but Chris Roberts thinks stairing at plants as a game play loop is boring

well, NMS is proof that it is actually not - you discover all kind of fauna and flora on planets and you get paid for it in nanites and money. it is as well interesting to see what kind of resource one can get from those plants or what kind of meat certain game is providing or what kind of stuff I can get from them, if I feed them instead to kill them. This is certainly an interesting and entertaining game loop in NMS and pretty well done.

 

[RJ-KNUCKLES]

I would really like to see that.
Also the third point - Random organized PvP not supported by game mechanics - is kind of forcing your self to do something that not really there yet. I have seen videos of people doing it, it was fun to see Combat vechicles in action - but i haven't seen any support from developers in to that gameplay. Good potential thou, but just like everything in the verse.

yep and creating a Solo mode was graaaaate for the PvP community. hehehehehehe

 

[RJ-KNUCKLES]

On a side note, this thread is for why streamers are leaving ED and i don't want the background to go white. so if you are interested there is a thread already for SC VS ED. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...he-point-of-an-elite-dangerous-player.586653/ just throwing that out,

 

[Lysette]

On a side note, this thread is for why streamers are leaving ED and i don't want the background to go white. so if you are interested there is a thread already for SC VS ED. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...he-point-of-an-elite-dangerous-player.586653/ just through that out,

me? not really, I'm just socializing here on the forum, because Sally convinced me to stay, even I'm no longer playing Elite.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Buying ships with $ - that's no gameplay - i hope you understand that right?

She claims SC is fun, because she jumped in to a Limo and took few pictures. - That's no gamplay either. That's just a cover of a tourist brouchure.

When you spend time grinding that 1.4 million credits to buy Cutlass Black and say - this was a hello of a fun adventure grinding this credits - then i would believe that SC is fun.

SC is not out yet and I highly doubt absolute earning rates are finalised yet. The bottom line is we just don't know how much of a grind SC will be.
Yes whales can pay an insane amount of cash for gear but the small print is all there that that money is to help develop the game.
IF earnings are deemed too quick by the whales then yes some will moan, but they won't have a leg to stand on as SC covered their backsides.

Personally if a game is good enough I don't feel grind, it's just playing the game.

Of course if when I am playing I feel I am constantly fighting bancrupcy due to unfair costs and the game pushes me to use real cash I will complain. But most players are not whales and SC will likely have to balance the game for normal people.
Time will tell but it will be years yet before we know how grindy / money grubbing SC will be.

I just hope they stick to their promise that everything , cosmetics included , will be earnable by playing the game.

I really want to play it but won't until I know I can keep my stuff...
To get back on topic until then I will just watch the odd stream here and there to see how it's going.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

View attachment 253155

a bulimic ant eater

 

[Lateralus]

FDEV are missing a huge trick - CQC would be an ideal platform for streaming if it were expanded to main-ship 1v1's and wing-fights, tournaments etc... The PvP league has proved in the past there is demand to watch these events, if CQC supported this format as well as fighter deathmatches it would make PvP events far easier to organise and run (instancing, rule-compliance, travel time etc).

The current build of CQC is not interesting or deep enough to interest streamers IMO - the death match/capture the flag modes are a bit 90s/2000's game design.

 

[Ian Phillips]

I would REALLY like to insist that Elite is discussed the the Elite forums!

Future posts based around other games will be removed for being off topic.

 

[angusmadmac1]

It's bit of a hard one to only speak about elite when streamers are streaming "other games " so naturally other games will be talked about ? And comparisons made between them . In work done , roadmaps , it's really only natural for the conversation to drift a bit

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

that's about how I see it as well - very well put. I just go a little further and declared it terminally ill, I doubt that there will be any further significant development and the game has entered it's 4th state, decline for good. My reason for it is basically that it would take too much effort to get this game on a healthy track again - starting with a game engine actually able to power the original vision of Mr. Braben - the decision to develop and evolve an own proprietary engine is now biting back - it costs too much time and effort and in the end what's coming out is no longer competitive in this market segment. It might be good enough for the other products of FDev, but not enough for the space genre. Too many too strong competitors on the horizon as well. I guess the decision is made, to let Elite slide into it's final stage, decline for good. As much as this is bad for players, it might still be a wise decision by the management - never feed a dead dog. At some point in time this had to happen and this time is now as it seems.

But I think as well this wasn't clear in September last year, when Mr. Braben put a great deal on EDO in the financial report. My guess is, that it was overestimated what can be achieved with the current engine and that this slowly but constantly got to them, that they cannot go through with what they had in mind - not going to happen anytime soon. So a decision had to be made - well, my way to see it - might or might not be right, but I'm very rarely wrong.

I would agree that Cobra was ultimately Odyssey's downfall. The impression I get is that Odyssey was important to them as a showcase for a revamped and largely rewritten version of their Cobra engine, except it turned out they bit off more than they could chew and in doing so also lacked the resources to add any real content as it was all used up developing the engine. The days when you could 'wing it' in development, hire in graduates and go from Hello World to a ship-able product are long gone. It's not the nineties anymore.

I don't think ED will pull the plug anytime soon, as it features too prominently in their marketing for them to do so at present, however I would agree that we're likely to see little more than maintenance going forward. When we start seeing Elite being dropped or demoted from their press releases and reports, that will probably herald the end, by which time the player base will have probably shrunk to the same levels as Star Wars Galaxies did when it got finally euthanized.

Or FDev could surprise us and both fix the problems and breath new life and content into the game. Unfortunately, this I suspect is the less likely outcome and think they took the boomers and gen-X'ers who have loved the title since 1984 for granted and eventually pushed us too far.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

I would REALLY like to insist that Elite is discussed the the Elite forums!

Future posts based around other games will be removed for being off topic.

Could you be more specific? Strictly speaking that would leave us all discussing big Elite Streamers giving up on streaming Elite in favour of [REDACTED]. Closing the thread would probably be more direct, if that's the case.

 

[Lysette]

I would agree that Cobra was ultimately Odyssey's downfall. The impression I get is that Odyssey was important to them as a showcase for a revamped and largely rewritten version of their Cobra engine, except it turned out they bit off more than they could chew and in doing so also lacked the resources to add any real content as it was all used up developing the engine. The days when you could 'wing it' in development, hire in graduates and go from Hello World to a ship-able product are long gone. It's not the nineties anymore.

I don't think ED will pull the plug anytime soon, as it features too prominently in their marketing for them to do so at present, however I would agree that we're likely to see little more than maintenance going forward. When we start seeing Elite being dropped or demoted from their press releases and reports, that will probably herald the end, by which time the player base will have probably shrunk to the same levels as Star Wars Galaxies did when it got finally euthanized.

Or FDev could surprise us and both fix the problems and breath new life and content into the game. Unfortunately, this I suspect is the less likely outcome and think they took the boomers and gen-X'ers who have loved the title since 1984 for granted and eventually pushed us too far.

Phase 4, decline for good, is not "the game is dead", but just the normal final phase of a product life cycle - and it can go on for years to come. It just means, that there is no further significant development effort put into it - it is what it is and might get some minor upgrades, but noting big, which would require a lot of effort and resources. Elite has an audience, who are pretty happy with what they got so far, and when EDO will be working correctly, they have some more to play with ... they might play on for a few more years like this .... there are plenty of games out there where the "decline phase" is ongoing since a decade - and why not, as long as there is enough revenue for it's upkeep and decent profit - but if there isn't enough profit for the man-force involved, those will be moved to a different project and servers will shut down.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

Phase 4, decline for good, is not "the game is dead", but just the normal final phase of a product life cycle - and it can go on for years to come. It just means, that there is no further significant development effort put into it - it is what it is and might get some minor upgrades, but noting big, which would require a lot of effort and resources. Elite has an audience, who are pretty happy with what they got so far, and when EDO will be working correctly, they have some more to play with ... they might play on for a few more years like this .... there are plenty of games out there where the "decline phase" is ongoing since a decade - and why not, as long as there is enough revenue for it's upkeep and decent profit - but if there isn't enough profit for the man-force involved, those will be moved to a different project and servers will shut down.

Oh, I agree, even with minimal effort you'll still have a core player base who'll doggedly stick with it and without an obivious alternative (and I don't believe that [REDACTED] is one) player attition could continue for years. That's what happened with [REDACTED], it pottered along with slowly dwindling numbers until [REDACTED] came out, then all but a few hundred jumped ship. Only then were the servers switched off.

 

[[VR] Mad Life Crisis]

they took the boomers and gen-X'ers who have loved the title since 1984 for granted and eventually pushed us too far.

Indeed.

 

[TheSisko]

What made you wait a year for console FS2020 instead of getting it for PC sooner, or moving to a different game? Same applies here for CMDRs on console waiting for Odyssey. Or myself waiting for RDR2 to arrive on PC

......I did? I have Xbox Game Pass and the abilty to multi-task.

I was able to enjoy other games, and wait for MFS on console at the same time.

 

[Lysette]

Oh, I agree, even with minimal effort you'll still have a core player base who'll doggedly stick with it and without an obivious alternative (and I don't believe that [REDACTED] is one) player attition could continue for years. That's what happened with [REDACTED], it pottered along with slowly dwindling numbers until [REDACTED] came out, then all but a few hundred jumped ship. Only then were the servers switched off.

you know, I lately looked at some MUDs (text-based adventuring games) I played about 16 years ago, when those were already about 10 years in service, and guess what, some are still there and the weirdest of all, I still know some of the people being online there - some of them are playing these old-school games since a quarter century. Incredible, it has no graphics at all, just text-based and using telnet.