Me, and a lot of others based on how often this discussion comes up.
My position has rarely shifted from "aquarium exhibits = okay, fully marine habitat animals = no thanks", with exception to perhaps the manatee.
Are we getting fish in PZ or a separate "Planet Aquarium"
- Thread starter tigris115
- Start date
My position has rarely shifted from "aquarium exhibits = okay, fully marine habitat animals = no thanks", with exception to perhaps the manatee.
May I ask why?
I chare the opinion of better not, for a few simple reasons, but mainly because i dont think planet zoo could do them justice, unless its like leafsaid an expansion close to a fullprice game, something i actually have made a thread about in the past, about a planet aquarium game that could be linked to planet zoo in a way similar to how the total war warhammer games are linked to each other.
Because lets be honest, having aquatic animals in the game would be cool, but would something like 2 sharks, a dolphin, maybe some kind of ray and another bigger fish like a marlin really add that much to the game?
Besides the dolphin, most of them would only be held in zoos as part of a bigger aquarium,that we wouldnt be able to build because of a lack of aquatic animals or would just be a bunch of exhibits, which also wouldnt be to exciting.
The manatee is the big exception, as it is besides the dolphin probably the only fully aquatic animal that is regulary seen in zoos outside of an dedicated aquarium and also one of the few were there is no big discussion about the ethics of holding them, as they are such slow and derpy creatures that they are alright with a pool/tank.
One or two dlc are not enough to actually cover that section with any depth and without major ethical discussions, which yeah its just the game i agree, but thats still a headache that i would not want to have if i would be making decisions at frontier.
Then if we are talking just about mechanics, with all respect to the great work that frontier has done, i bet that an aquatic dlc thats less that 20 bucks would defenetly not be nearly as fleshed out then what a new game could offer and would probably just be some bandage solutions, with tanks themself probably being quite limited or just a concrete and glas wall that can be filled with water, which would be an alright solution for something like the manatee, but would suck when we are talking about smaller fish, cause quite frankly they could not be done justice with the current mechanics and are better served with the current method of just using monitors and filling in a video of an aquarium.
Not even the current exhibit system would do aquariums any justice and while having some iconic ones like the piranja as part of that bandage solution would be fine, but i dont want an expansion of cubes without a massive overhall to exhibits, which would be nice but nothing that we can expect.
And lastly, i just dont need them. Its a zoogame, not an aquarium game and many zoos have actually outsourced them into seperate aquariums. It would be cool to have them, but simply not necessary and i would prefer pretty much anything else thats not extinct animals
Because lets be honest, having aquatic animals in the game would be cool, but would something like 2 sharks, a dolphin, maybe some kind of ray and another bigger fish like a marlin really add that much to the game?
Besides the dolphin, most of them would only be held in zoos as part of a bigger aquarium,that we wouldnt be able to build because of a lack of aquatic animals or would just be a bunch of exhibits, which also wouldnt be to exciting.
The manatee is the big exception, as it is besides the dolphin probably the only fully aquatic animal that is regulary seen in zoos outside of an dedicated aquarium and also one of the few were there is no big discussion about the ethics of holding them, as they are such slow and derpy creatures that they are alright with a pool/tank.
One or two dlc are not enough to actually cover that section with any depth and without major ethical discussions, which yeah its just the game i agree, but thats still a headache that i would not want to have if i would be making decisions at frontier.
Then if we are talking just about mechanics, with all respect to the great work that frontier has done, i bet that an aquatic dlc thats less that 20 bucks would defenetly not be nearly as fleshed out then what a new game could offer and would probably just be some bandage solutions, with tanks themself probably being quite limited or just a concrete and glas wall that can be filled with water, which would be an alright solution for something like the manatee, but would suck when we are talking about smaller fish, cause quite frankly they could not be done justice with the current mechanics and are better served with the current method of just using monitors and filling in a video of an aquarium.
Not even the current exhibit system would do aquariums any justice and while having some iconic ones like the piranja as part of that bandage solution would be fine, but i dont want an expansion of cubes without a massive overhall to exhibits, which would be nice but nothing that we can expect.
And lastly, i just dont need them. Its a zoogame, not an aquarium game and many zoos have actually outsourced them into seperate aquariums. It would be cool to have them, but simply not necessary and i would prefer pretty much anything else thats not extinct animals
I'm not going to get into the ethical arguments about dolphins and orca, so we'll leave that aside and say it is what it is.
With fish and sharks and the like, I'm not convinced there's a place for them in Planet Zoo. I often feel like people are looking back at Zoo Tycoon and the way tanks worked there, and it just isn't realistic. Fish in captivity can't just be thrown into an open-top tank in the middle of a forest and be expected to thrive. There are a thousand reasons as to why, but water chemistry and temperature are the two big ones. This is why the vast majority of aquariums are indoors; much easier to maintain strict levels of chemistry without worrying about external temperatures, rain, air pollution, and so on.
We know that Frontier takes these factors seriously, which is why the exhibits likely exist the way they do. They knew it wouldn't be realistic to keep a lot of those animals in big open-air habitats, especially amphibians and invertebrates. The exhibits are obviously not perfect - they went with a one-size-fits-all system, so it can't be perfect - but it shows the intent. Maintain a regular temperature and humidity level for these animals to thrive.
So, exhibit-like aquariums are good in my opinion. You'd have similar sliders, but in this case to simplify things I think it would be one for water temperature, and one for salinity (some fish are freshwater, some saltwater, some prefer brackish in-between mixes). The challenge there would be compensating for the way fish move, as most fish species do move constantly, even if only a little. It's doable though.
However, big habitat fish are more questionable. Yes, they could simply add new water treatment facilities to manage the mentioned factors, and rely on us to build realistically or unrealistically as we please by using building pieces and keeping our tanks mostly indoors, but given the way they've done things so far I'm not sure that they would. So is there any other way to do this justice, and is it worth it considering that aquaria are not hugely common in zoos?
This isn't a question of Frontier's ability to make great things happen, either. I'm sure the designs they come up with would look fantastic, and I'm sure they could conceivably come up with a solution to the various problems that doesn't amount to a bunch of Redditors shouting that "it's just a game, stop taking it so seriously". It's more a question of whether I think it's worth the effort.
So, to summarise again, aquariums like exhibits = yes. Happy with that, and the majority of zoos that keep aquaria tend to have these smaller fish in smaller displays because it's cheaper and easier to manage in a zoo context (there are obviously exceptions, but these tend to be bigger budget, world-class zoos anyway). Habitat fish = no; I don't see it as being worth the effort for something that needs to be pretty complex.
That's why I support a seperate connected game. I'd really love an aquarium simulator, and there never was a good aquarium simulator, but as you said the scope of PZ is not enough to do it justice.
Yeah. The closest I got to was SeaWorld Adventure Parks Tycoon 3D (a terrible game, in my opinion. No creativity at all). That's why Marine Mania from ZT1 and ZT2 were my favorites, and I hope that we get a future Planet Aquarium. It'd be so much fun
Way back I made a post about a hypothetical planet aquarium and I really think they should do it while adding features and animals not in PZ and include some that are
Now fish for planet zoo, I’d really like if they could make aquariums that function similar to our exhibits with alligator gar, piranhas, electric eels and other practical fish that are found in freshwater and fit in with our current themes
Now fish for planet zoo, I’d really like if they could make aquariums that function similar to our exhibits with alligator gar, piranhas, electric eels and other practical fish that are found in freshwater and fit in with our current themes
The best one on the market right now, I think, is Megaquarium. It's extremely simplified and an indie game (so not to the same standard of graphics as PZ by any measure), but the management is relatively complex, with everything from what sort of filtration you put on the tanks to what sort of lighting the animals need taken into consideration. Creativity is limited somewhat by the gameplay style, but I'd recommend it for a bit of aquarium-based fun. You can still design a whole aquarium complete with everything from clownfish to whale sharks, and even anacondas and manatees if you get the DLC. The workshop also has a ton of additional features that fit really perfectly into the game as well.
Yes, I have it, but then I got PZ and haven't touched Megaquarium since
I still go back to it every now and then for something a little more mind-numbing than PZ. I've always found it useful to move between games, though - keeps them from getting stale and repetitive.
Yeah, I know the feeling. I've been going between Minecraft with friends to JWE (modded) to Spore to PZ and back again
@NZFanatic those are pretty good points. I highly doubt due to life span of the game will ever see marine dlc. By marine dlc I also mean freshwater fish and fully aquatic animals besides maybe the manatee. Hypothetically speaking if we received 2-3 more yrs of support I could see some fully aquatic animals eventually coming to planet zoo but that’s only hypothetical. Of course I don’t think the system would be very complex as I’d expect them to be nothing more then loop animated glorified exhibit animals with the exception of the manatee of course. I do see tho zoos are slowly phasing this aspect out of modern zoos. As a kid I remember my local zoo having a actual aquarium building. Really awesome but the work and dedication it probably took to upkeep everything was probably pretty inefficient as a whole. They do however have this.
Which features small sharks, rays, numerous fish and much more. Also a setup featuring trout. I wouldn’t mind seeing planet zoo getting some of these features simply as a gap filler of some sorts as there are still some low level aquarium aspects in modern zoos some simply stunning.
But like I said these would definitely be looped exhibit animals and most likely will be a eventual mod addition as mods evolve and improve.
Which features small sharks, rays, numerous fish and much more. Also a setup featuring trout. I wouldn’t mind seeing planet zoo getting some of these features simply as a gap filler of some sorts as there are still some low level aquarium aspects in modern zoos some simply stunning.
But like I said these would definitely be looped exhibit animals and most likely will be a eventual mod addition as mods evolve and improve.
I believe a full-blown aquarium can wait until Frontier decides to make a whole new game. We might get a few fish species in small exhibit-style tanks in future DLC for PZ, but a large aquarium would require adding many more animal species than any of the DLC thus far have included. The DLC have tended to add between four and eight animals each, whereas most aquariums boast far more species than that. Mind you, I wouldn't totally rule out a future "mega-pack" DLC with an aquarium theme, but I wouldn't consider it likely either.
EDIT: Of course, a DLC with a small selection of the larger marine species, like what you used to see at Sea World (e.g. orcas, dolphins, and sea lions) might still be in the range of possibility. But I doubt a lot of people would be comfortable with keeping cetaceans in captivity in this day and age.
EDIT: Of course, a DLC with a small selection of the larger marine species, like what you used to see at Sea World (e.g. orcas, dolphins, and sea lions) might still be in the range of possibility. But I doubt a lot of people would be comfortable with keeping cetaceans in captivity in this day and age.
First of all, it's a game... it's barely realistic to begin with and nothing we do in it has any effects on reality; getting upset about putting digital animals in digital cages makes about as much sense as feeling satisfaction in releasing Critically Endangered digital animals into digital nature.
Second, the apparent popularity of dolphin and whale mods, despite the absolute lack of a truly viable animal to base them on (I think they use the Giant Otter as a base) suggests there are many people would be perfectly fine putting whales and such into their fantasy zoos.
Third, if you needed more reassurance that this is a fantasy game and people will do whatever weird thing they want in it, someone just made a Blue Whale mod... because... why not?
Good gods, are you seriously still trying to push that argument?
It doesn't matter if it's just a game. Your point doesn't hold water, because regardless of whether it's digital or not, Frontier has a clear intention with it. If the argument that "it's just a game" was ever worth anything there would never have been any issue with the polar bear, for example.
That sounds like a problem on Frontier's part...
Everything they have added or not added so far as been based on recommendations from the AZA, EAZA, San Diego Zoo, Chester Zoo, the Bear Conservation Group, and so on; point being that even though it's a game, they clearly want things to line up with the real world as much as possible. Nobody expects it to be perfect all the time and obviously there needs to be compromise in certain areas for the sake of streamlining (such as keepers entering carnivore habitats to feed them and such), but the approach they have taken and that they continue to take clearly shows that they aren't setting out to create some nonsensical fantasy game like Zoo Tycoon.
The popularity of mods is also kind of meaningless. I'm sure a lot of people who download mods just download every mod, or at least every mod made by their favourite modder, regardless of anything else. More to the point though is that modding is not supported by Frontier, and therefore it likely isn't something they consider when deciding what goes into the game.
An aquarium game does not appeal to me at all and I know I wouldn't buy it. I'm fine if we never get cetaceans in PZ but we really do need some kind of fish. Especially freshwater fish being missing really sucks, like arapaima, catfish etc. Can't make a great Amazonia showcase with just the giant otter and a caiman species. Same reason we need birds as well.
I mean, I actually wouldn't mind too much if a DLC with dolphins and orcas came out for PZ. I even have fond memories of all the weird and wacky animals (e.g. sperm and humpback whales, great white sharks, and giant squid...not to mention all the prehistoric ones) you could put in your zoos in Zoo Tycoon. On the other hand, I question whether a somewhat large studio like Frontier would want to risk backlash having you exhibit cetaceans in a game with a pro-conservation, pro-animal welfare theme like PZ, what with all the controversy around the very premise of holding cetaceans in captivity. These studios tend to have too much invested in their bottom line and good PR to take those kinds of risks.
I'm the last person who wants those kinds of animals, but honestly I think it would only straddle the line of what is acceptable considering the direction things are going on. In other words, I think they'd get away with it, even if I personally wouldn't be happy about it. That said, I still have no reason to believe they will actually do it.