How could players be encouraged to put themselves into dangerous pvp scenarios, even when they don't have to?

[CaptainPugwash]

I think playing open so we all can play victims to so other players can be serial killers is not good for anyone. If playing in open for the community spirit then that's fine but I don't play to get whacked by someone in a battleship

this is taking it to the extreme edge case. How many times have you been attacked if you exclude the engineer bases, CGs, and power play? Me? Once, and that was at Shinrharta.
My above suggestion about making safe shipping lanes would have no detrimental effect on the pvp community and would at the same time add some realism to the game (in my opinion) plus more colour and npc population, the populated systems would seem more alive. There may also be a small incentive to some people to try open, and is in no way creating cannon fodder for gankers, in fact it is the opposite.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

The discussion is, I am afraid, just a theoretical one. FDev is not going to change anything and the only doable changes had to come from the player community itself. The only thing I can do here, is to kindly ask the PvP players to put some realistic gameplay as basic for behavior. When I get attacked and eventually destroyed, I would like to know why. At best it is an "in game answer", at worst is "because I can do it". I know that not everyone is roleplaying this game, but for me it's always a deeply annoyances when I can get no in-game reason for things that happened.

Very easily, the game could attempt to give you the answer to why you were destroyed, by saying "you were destroyed by CMDR XYZ, pledged to <power>", or "a pro-xeno CMDR", "a member of squad Y", etc. Even let people pledge allegiance to a minor faction for only this reason. Let them select which piece of info is seen.

 

[Frankymole]

"You can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink it." (*some old quote from someone)

And well making people do things, is well maybe not the best option?

Why can't people just play their own way, and leave others to do the same? Why does he OP want us to be clones?

 

[T200]

Why can't people just play their own way, and leave others to do the same? Why does he OP want us to be clones?

The combination of a significant percentage of the playerbase with no interest in PVP, in a game that seems designed to use a shared universe and possess multiplayer/always-online features is in a lot of people's opinion a sign of a problem.

It's a Symptom of FDev's design philosophy and a lack of clear vision and focus from the onset, yet many seem to think there's an opportunity still, after all this time, to correct it.

I mean think of how much effort has gone into combat/weapon/etc. systems in this game, and how much of that was focused on trying to ensure some kind of balance or progression or any number of things.. It's not a good sign if PVP combat is so polarizing, because it means that there are some serious issues in the mechanics or assumptions that underlie it's design.

 

[Amanojaku]

It's kind of telling that as people describe it, 99% of the game is just as empty in open as it is in solo and the remaining 1% is just waiting to see if you have to jump out and reset before getting to your destination.

It's a big galaxy. Even the bubble is huge, so CMDR encounters are indeed rare outside of Shin, capital systems and CGs.

From my experience it's more telling that people complain about the 1% of the time they actually have to deal with other players. It proves they were completely unprepared for a hostile encounter in Open, especially given the rarity outside of CGs which actively bring players together in Open.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I mean that players choose Open knowing they could be attacked, even if the chances are slim. If they knowingly go in unprepared just because the chances of them running into a hostile player is rare, they're making a big mistake. Especially explorers on return trips to the bubble.

I mean, they say lie detector tests are 95% accurate. I can't tell you how many 1s I've rolled on a D20, and that's a 5% chance. You won't see me taking a lie detector test. They don't hold up in court anyway. If 100 million ppl took a lie detector test and told the truth, 5 million would fail.

Why play against the odds if you don't have to, and you're completely unprepared for the result?

 

[Wescott]

Whether you like or dislike PvP, it's not up to the player group to force PvP on those who don't want it and to "encourage them" another form of penalise them in game is simply another form of discrimination towards them. There is enough types of discrimination in the world to go around as it is. for me personally I can take PvP or leave it depending on my mood, but it is my choice NOT some one else's. via "penalties" hidden under the phrase "Encourage"

 

[TobiasFuzz]

Very easily, the game could attempt to give you the answer to why you were destroyed, by saying "you were destroyed by CMDR XYZ, pledged to <power>", or "a pro-xeno CMDR", "a member of squad Y", etc. Even let people pledge allegiance to a minor faction for only this reason. Let them select which piece of info is seen.

Of course that was more of a rethorical statement. I am not pledged to any minor faction nor do I engage in PP. I am just running my small logistics business. There was never a in game reason to attack me, besides from pirating and so far I was never killed by a RP pirate player (because I negotiate with them). Those who killed or try to kill me were crazy lunatics (my in-game explanation). And in open the galaxy seems to be massively populated with them. And that's ridiculous. You should think that people who get a license to fly a spaceship must provide some sanity to pass.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Of course that was more of a rethorical statement. I am not pledged to any minor faction nor do I engage in PP. I am just running my small logistics business. There was never a in game reason to attack me, besides from pirating and so far I was never killed by a RP pirate player (because I negotiate with them). Those who killed or try to kill me were crazy lunatics (my in-game explanation). And in open the galaxy seems to be massively populated with them. And that's ridiculous. You should think that people who get a license to fly a spaceship must provide some sanity to pass.

What if the squad that came up had an inara description of "dedicated to the blockading of interstellar trade". Also, if you are trading, you're automatically affecting the BGS and could by all means attract the wrath of a PMF (although I'd expect diplomacy first, and in fact it's highly unlikely you'd get ganked just trading around random systems). In the case of a CG, they inherently represent something of political significance, so it's unsurprising there are people dedicated to standing in the way of those taking part (FDev choose not to simulate that for themselves, players step in, as usual). There are better RP reasons than "psycho" that you can project onto a ganker. I dispute that fortunate individuals who become space farers in a dystopian future would necessarily have to pass psychosis checks anyway. Space is far more riddled with NPC versions that often seem less sane.

All that said, from a strictly gameplay point of view it is disproportionate. CGs in open can become un-fun. What I'd prefer is mechanisms to funnel players into defending each other while adding gameplay, and change the feel. It needn't be something that requires huge dev outlay.

 

[Misty_Dark]

What if the squad that came up had an inara description of "dedicated to the blockading of interstellar trade". Also, if you are trading, you're automatically affecting the BGS and could by all means attract the wrath of a PMF (although I'd expect diplomacy first, and in fact it's highly unlikely you'd get ganked just trading around random systems). In the case of a CG, they inherently represent something of political significance, so it's unsurprising there are people dedicated to standing in the way of those taking part (FDev choose not to simulate that for themselves, players step in, as usual). There are better RP reasons than "psycho" that you can project onto a ganker. I dispute that fortunate individuals who become space farers in a dystopian future would necessarily have to pass psychosis checks anyway. Space is far more riddled with NPC versions that often seem less sane.

All that said, from a strictly gameplay point of view it is disproportionate. CGs in open can become un-fun. What I'd prefer is mechanisms to funnel players into defending each other while adding gameplay, and change the feel. It needn't be something that requires huge dev outlay.

but how would they know? how do you know that a specific player is harming your faction? What proof can you collect to say with a good certainty that a single player is harming your minor faction?

 

[Riverside]

but how would they know? how do you know that a specific player is harming your faction? What proof can you collect to say with a good certainty that a single player is harming your minor faction?

Usually the squadron they are associated with. It's not always something that can be determined without asking.

 

[Amanojaku]

but how would they know? how do you know that a specific player is harming your faction? What proof can you collect to say with a good certainty that a single player is harming your minor faction?

If they're doing it in Solo or PG you can't know. That's why I think if changes are made to make Open safer, people should be prepared to lose the ability to affect BGS in systems where PMFs are active, while they are in Solo/PG. Fdev isn't going to make one-sided changes if they affect game modes. Gankers and seal clubbers might be a problem in Open, but Solo/PG players can be quite the nuisance to PMFs., especially when they have a vendetta. I've seen it first hand. Everyone is capable of making good points, but if they aren't willing to compromise for balance's sake nothing will ever get changed.

 

[Misty_Dark]

Usually the squadron they are associated with. It's not always something that can be determined without asking.

So when a random player with or without any squadron affiliation, that has no interests in the system, then you are down to bad excuses for why a player is killed.

 

[Misty_Dark]

If they're doing it in Solo or PG you can't know. That's why I think if changes are made to make Open safer, people should be prepared to lose the ability to affect BGS in systems where PMFs are active, while they are in Solo/PG. Fdev isn't going to make one-sided changes if they affect game modes. Gankers and seal clubbers might be a problem in Open, but Solo/PG players can be quite the nuisance to PMFs., especially when they have a vendetta. I've seen it first hand. Everyone is capable of making good points, but if they aren't willing to compromise for balance's sake nothing will ever get changed.

but how do you know in OPEN?


OK, I have totally different radiacal idea. anyone doing any kind of BGS affecting activity, they are not alloweed to harm any other player. How does that sound? so now we can all be a one happy family in Open, does that not sounds like a gereat idea?

 

[Amanojaku]

So when a random player with or without any squadron affiliation, that has no interests in the system, then you are down to bad excuses for why a player is killed.

That's true, but a squadron can use comms or interdict the player and ask them to only take missions for "so and so faction" while they are in that system. That's how the squadron I used to be with used to do it. Eventually, that person would move on or be recruited. We knew who our enemies were.

 

[Riverside]

So when a random player with or without any squadron affiliation, that has no interests in the system, then you are down to bad excuses for why a player is killed.

Well yes, if they fail an attitude test and the killer is in a particularly antagonistic mood

Mistakes happen, that's where faction support gets interesting. Escalation through misunderstanding is common, but so is diplomacy. I have both crushed factions whose supporters targeted me, and held back from retaliating in circumstances where it would have been clear to anyone paying attention that I could have done more than I was doing.

It's all part of the fun for me

 

[Amanojaku]

but how do you know in OPEN?


OK, I have totally different radiacal idea. anyone doing any kind of BGS affecting activity, they are not alloweed to harm any other player. How does that sound? so now we can all be a one happy family in Open, does that not sounds like a gereat idea?

My squadron leader used external tools like Inara to check logs of people in system, squadron or no.

That idea wouldn't work as others can come in system and affect BGS by simply slaughtering security forces, and if the system is in certain states (War) it actively encourages combat. A squadron needs to be able to fight off invaders.

 

[T200]

but how do you know in OPEN?


OK, I have totally different radiacal idea. anyone doing any kind of BGS affecting activity, they are not alloweed to harm any other player. How does that sound? so now we can all be a one happy family in Open, does that not sounds like a gereat idea?

boring, incredibly boring why bother having open or a BGS?
the whole real point of a BGS or Open is to have groups of players creating drama for one another..

 

[Riverside]

That's true, but a squadron can use comms or interdict the player and ask them to only take missions for "so and so faction" while they are in that system. That's how the squadron I used to be with used to do it. Eventually, that person would move on or be recruited. We knew who our enemies were.

I ask people for their help, and if they agree I'll usually at least share a wing mission reward or repay them in kind in some other way. I don't use discord so any interactions with other faction supporters only happen in-game.

 

[Riverside]

boring, incredibly boring why bother having open or a BGS?
the whole real point of a BGS or Open is to have groups of players creating drama for one another..

Dunno about 'the whole point' but it's certainly a more interesting way to play imo

 

[Amanojaku]

I ask people for their help, and if they agree I'll usually at least share a wing mission reward or repay them in kind in some other way. I don't use discord so any interactions with other faction supporters only happen in-game.

An entire wing of our squadron was dedicated to helping CMDRs get started in the "baby bubble" (starting area), helping them build ships, etc, with no seduction involved (as in, we'll only help if you join us).

There was also a huge benefit to joining a squadron because you learned who the ganker squadrons were and had backup if you ran into them. Squadrons know the other squadrons on their respective platforms. Ever since I was part of a squadron, if I see certain clan tags I know what I'm in for.