Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Craith]

Didn't the regulators say if bought in before the official scope change you're entitled to a refund?

I don't know, and I don't really care - investing the time to fight for a refund would be more expensive (spare time is rare and dear for me, and work time has a monetary value - opportunity cost of a refund is to high for me) than writing the money off as a bad investment - the other one space game I backed at that time gave me all I wanted and more, so half of my investments were good, so spreading the risk paid off. Can't win all the time.

They still lied to their backers back then.

Don't know about regulators saying anything, but CIG changed their ToS in 2016 (IIRC). If you ever logged in after the change of ToS you had to accept them.

So, anyone who was waiting for CIG to deliver on what they promised, and logged in after that change, are out of luck for a refund now. I would guess that is a vast majority of people who followed the development of SC, waiting for CIG to deliver on what they sold backers.

[snip]

I actually knew about the ToS and still clicked it (didn't read it though). I was curious how much it improved. I try it every now and then, if it is ever fun for me I will play it longer, even though it won't ever become the awesome game I backed. Maybe it will be a MVP that is fun for a few dozen hours at some point.

 

[Intrepid3D]

Then it should be obvious to you that no force is applied? Hint: The keyword is "deception".

My argument is this is not what CIG are doing.

 

[Viajero]

Data dumping me with digress isn't going to make me change my stance because i'm not going to waste my time studying case law.

No data dumping and no need for case law. The sentence for Enron execs is out there. Contrary to what you seem to wish, authorities step in to protect people from, in your words, “their own stupidity”. It happens every day.

 

[Intrepid3D]

No data dumping and no need for case law. The sentence is there. Authorities step in to protect people from, in your words, “their own stupidity”. It happens every day.

And CIG are still going.

 

[Viajero]

And CIG are still going.

Not sure that means much. Enron, Fyre Festival or Theranos frauds went on for years, some went on even for more than a decade.

 

[Intrepid3D]

Enron, Fyre Festival or Theranos frauds went on for years, some went on even for more than a decade.

And?

 

[Darkfyre99]

And that, for me, is the scammy part.

And for me, the scammy part is the Roberts clan profiting individually from a crowdfunded project, beyond being paid a reasonable salary, without delivering the promised product. We know from their UK shell company alone, from the documents they are required by law to publish, that the Roberts Clan has siphoned away over ten million dollars IIRC through various means over the years, and now we can add over six million dollars in dividends and payments to investors… and that’s just the stuff we know about, in the third of the company that has to be relatively transparent.

Makes me wonder how much they’re siphoning away behind closed doors.

 

[Viajero]

And?

Well you are the one who didn’t make much sense with:

And CIG are still going.

I just pointed out that frauds can and do go for quite a while. Some times over decades. Some may even never get caught. So your last comment doesn’t really make much sense in a discussion about possible fraud at CIG.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

So don't agree to it ^^^

That's rather disingenious when they changed the ToS in 2016. And if you don't agree to the ToS you can't launch SC to try it out. You even have to agree to the ToS if you try a free fly.

Are you trying to tell me that when you google Star Citizen there is nothing critical in your results?

Google knows me well. I might get some critical stuff.

Let's try though from Internet Explorer, where i don't have any searches for SC.

First page links:

RSI website (advertisement)
RSI website

Questions:
How much does it cost to play SC
Can you download SC for free
Is SC only for PC
Do you have to pay to play SC

SC official youtube channel
Star Citizen Wikipedia (first place you might see some actual criticism since the faithful can't override wikipedia's curators)
Official Twitter
BoredGamer channel
SC official channel again
IGN promoting Jumptown trailer
Star Citizen facebook

Suggested searches and related searches show nothing negative

 

[Intrepid3D]

Well you are the one who didn’t make much sense with:

I just pointed out that frauds can and do go for quite a while. Some times over decades. So your last comment doesn’t really make much sense.

I know you think its a fraud, i don't see how that's supposed to convince me?

 

[Viajero]

I know you think its a fraud, i don't see how that's supposed to convince me?

I have no idea if it is a fraud, although the info so far suggests at least the very distinct possibility, and that a discussion on the topic is fully warranted. I know you don’t think it is fraud, but none of your arguments so far like the “still going” one seem to be really supporting your belief though.

 

[LittleAnt]

And CIG are still going.

Yes because they are doing nothing illegal, despite all the "hopes" and "analysis" of the guys here

 

[Intrepid3D]

I have no idea if it is a fraud, although the info so far suggests at least the very distinct possibility, and that a discussion on the topic is fully warranted. I know you don’t think it is though. None of your arguments like the “still going” seem to be really supporting your belief though.

Its a product you can try before you buy and if you do buy you get it instantly, or at least as fast as you can download it, beyond that you even get a 30 day return policy, that's more than CIG are obligated to do.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Are you trying to tell me that when you google Star Citizen there is nothing critical in your results?

Out of morbid curiosity, I tried that. It three pages to for me to even get a hint of something critical regarding regarding Star Citizen, and that was about it not meeting UK advertising standards. It’s only after five pages do I hit something genuinely critical about the project.

 

[VR Golgot]

Its a product you can try before you buy and if you do buy you get it instantly, or at least as fast as you can download it, beyond that you even get a 30 day return policy, that's more than CIG are obligated to do.

How do you try the BMM you bought for delivery in 2017?

 

[Viajero]

Its a product you can try before you buy and if you do buy you get it instantly, beyond that you even get a 30 day return policy, that's more than CIG are obligated to do.

This is a bit of a sidetrack to the fraud discussion though, but hey. In many jurisdictions, pre sales of digital goods can be refunded prior to release, no questions asked. You statement would be fair if SC was actually released, I.e if what we have today was it.

 

[Intrepid3D]

How do you try the BMM you bought for delivery in 2017?

Is that what makes it a scam?

 

[Intrepid3D]

This is a bit of a sidetrack to the fraud discussion though, but hey. In many jurisdictions, pre sales of digital goods can be refunded prior to release, no questions asked. You statement would be fair if SC was actually released, I.e if what we have today was it.

The problem with that is it is released.

 

[VR Golgot]

Is that what makes it a scam?

Where did I say it's a scam?

I said CIG misrepresent their current and future product regularly. And have done for nearly a decade now. For me that's classed as 'scummy'

 

[Viajero]

The problem with that is it is released.

Well, I know it may be a tall order to ask, but it would be great if you could pass that memo to the whole community and market at large in behalf of CIG. Pretty please?