Shooter Mechanics

Has there been any admittance that the shooter flow in Odyssey is sub-par? Dumping an entire magazine of headshot's into someone with the Oppressor and barely getting their shields down is so pathetic, but the Executioner will drop their shields entirely in one body shot, and kill most enemies with another (Meaning only 2/3 of the magazine to kill an enemy, as opposed to needing two whole magazines from a rifle).. Does anyone honestly think that's well balanced?

I get the desire to make laser weapons good against shields, and kinetic weapons good against flesh, but between the reload speeds, weapon switch speeds, and total magazine capacities, it's just frustrating..

Just double the amount of enemies and give them half the health..?

This isn't an unsolvable issue, but if the dev's or rest of the community don't believe this kind of combat flow is just unfun, then I'll just admit I'm wasting my time on this game and move on to something else..

Oppressor is subpar, however some people still like it.

I use the Executioner (plasma sniper), Tormentor (plasma handgun) and rarely the Intimidator (plasma shotgun) even tho the Intimidator, when properly modded is the only weapon able to oneshot npcs

Sometimes i also use laser/kinetic combos. Doesnt really matter what combo if one is confident with the mapped buttons to switch weapons and get used to actually switch instead of dumping a full kinetic load into someone's shields or a full laser load in someone's unshielded suit...
 
Point: FDEV is not in the business of making an FPS shooter, if you want a good FPS shooter go and play a game designed specifically to be an FPS shooter. The legs combat in EDO will never be as good as a game made just for that activity.
This kind of "Expect the bare minimum" mindset is just depressing. I want this game to add new features and to do them well. Since when have our expectations been relegated to "Yeah this expansion is focussing on walking around and FPS combat, but don't expect anything special from it, expect a below average arcade shooter." Its just tragic.

I've been playing siege recently and it really puts it into perspective how poor the fps is in Ody. Even the sound design (something this game does well across the board) was underwhelming, making the weapons sound like plastic toys instead of deadly weapons. Weapon models are not anything special, the reload animations are also nothing really special. This overall doesn't make the weapons feel very satisfying to use, compared to most shooters. That on top of the annoying personal shields, the annoying switching of weapon types (or being forced to use plasma weapons, which slow travel speed doesn't make it that satisfying imo) and the incredibly depressing upgrade and engineering mechanics really outline how far they've missed the mark (cant even remove engineering addons, like what kind of "customisation" is this?). One of the few things done right is the AI imo.

They have just tried to shoehorn the ship combat mechanics into an on-foot setting and it just doesn't really work. Just play any other decent shooter and the cracks appear fairly quickly with this expansion. Maybe some tweaks, fixes and rebalancing might salvage it, but I'm not holding my breath on it.
 
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Deleted member 182079

D
They stop feeling so much like bullet sponges if you use the shotgun. One-hit kills on full health same-grade targets are possible that way. Shame about the rest of the weapons, though...

I suspect part of the bullet sponge problem is that - as with the space game - everyone has the same equipment. So if they made the enemies weaker, you'd also die very quickly.
Yeah my theory is that they balanced the game around G3. The irritating bit I mentioned is mostly where you empty your mag (if you play with a laser/kinetic combo), or want to switch weapons, shields come back up again in the meantime. Maybe the fact that happens too quickly and that when it does, it resets at 50% (just like for ships, though there it's fine) so you have to switch back to laser again.

It's just a constant fighting the reload/weapon switching mechanic and it's not fun. I know people will suggest "just use plasma" but I don't really find those particularly enjoyable to use if I'm honest, too easy/OP when they hit while the slow shot speed makes them frustrating to use at long distances. And due to their small clip sizes in the name of balance they require even more reloading.

EDIT: Agree on your point about dying too quickly otherwise - it reminds me of Survival mode in Fallout 4, where both your but also the enemies' health pools are drastically reduced (or weapon output increased, same difference I guess). You can one-shot headshot even advanced enemies, but they can do the same to you. Makes for a very intense experience, difficult yes, but also more tactical. I can see how others would be frustrated with that though.
 
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Being able to add audio masking is not that difficult. 5 push, 10 opinion polls, 5 surveillance equipment and 8 smear campaign plans. Plus the actual materials, the data being available as mission rewards.

Proud owner of a G5 Oppressor for my main CMDR. Just waiting for that buff!

Steve 07.
 
Hold on, is this a thread about one gun being bad or the overall mechanics bad?

I actually find the mechanics quite decent and work well. Maybe some balancing is needed, but otherwise its fine.
It does the bare minimum. It functions and is usable. I was hoping for more from the ground fps ngl. It works well for players who don't really play fps games. But it begs the question ... why do it? Why would you design a space legs and fps focussed expansion for a target audience that doesn't really play fps games. The space simmers will ignore it, and the FPS enjoyers will mock it. Just doesn't make any sense. Either do it well or don't do it at all.
 
Has there been any admittance that the shooter flow in Odyssey is sub-par? Dumping an entire magazine of headshot's into someone with the Oppressor and barely getting their shields down is so pathetic, but the Executioner will drop their shields entirely in one body shot, and kill most enemies with another (Meaning only 2/3 of the magazine to kill an enemy, as opposed to needing two whole magazines from a rifle).. Does anyone honestly think that's well balanced?

I get the desire to make laser weapons good against shields, and kinetic weapons good against flesh, but between the reload speeds, weapon switch speeds, and total magazine capacities, it's just frustrating..

Just double the amount of enemies and give them half the health..?

This isn't an unsolvable issue, but if the dev's or rest of the community don't believe this kind of combat flow is just unfun, then I'll just admit I'm wasting my time on this game and move on to something else..
It's designed that way specifically just like the ships and requiring upgrades in order to become more efficient at combat. Every complaint you mentioned is an engineering upgrade you unlock. Also doubling AI is likely impossible in its current design as AI and pathfinding is one of the most CPU intensive things in the game.

My suggestions to improve the system would be to change the following:

1. Weapons attachments or improvements should be sold in the shop for coin, not engineered. If you want a scope, buy it, if you want better recoil, buy a recoil stabilizer or a longer barrel for further range etc. This would better correspond to the current design with ships and modules for purchase (then engineering those pieces later). upgrading weapons could instead unlock slots on a weapon to add more attachments. So lvl 1 rifle has one slot for what you choose, each lvl unlocks a new comp slot (like how suits work.) with a max of 5 attachments. Then you could engineer those comps for improved function: example scope magnification increase or magazine size etc.

2. Increase cross over damage (kinetic should penetrate shields better and vice versa while still allowing best damage for each weapon type to incentive team work and weapon diversity.

3. Total damage should cross between shields and health bars. Example: if X weapon shoots for X damage in a single shot it should translate from Shields health to physical health factoring in the weapon type penality amount if applicable. Bullet hits for X damage, if X damage is enough to kill both the shields bar and health bar it should one shot kill the target.

4. I'd increase weapon damage overall a bit to make it shorter time to kill by perhaps 25%-35%. We don't want combat too fast but a slight speed up would help.

5. I'd add in a cover state to the AI to create more stand off moments (like arma) and a bit more balance towards pure rushing behavior. Allow for combat to vary with fleeing moments and holding cover moments popping up from cover, shooting and or trying to flank the enemy or being flanked.

6. Add a basic revive function or medical system to the team on foot experience and update spawning rules to be less punishing (dying with a team and spawning on a space station since you were in a friends ship)
 
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Deleted member 182079

D
Being able to add audio masking is not that difficult. 5 push, 10 opinion polls, 5 surveillance equipment and 8 smear campaign plans. Plus the actual materials, the data being available as mission rewards.

Proud owner of a G5 Oppressor for my main CMDR. Just waiting for that buff!

Steve 07.
Not sure if this is a serious post, but let's just assume for a minute it is.

I've been playing on my current CMDR since end of June, while not daily but most of the days.The 5 Push is easy to get hold of, granted. As for the rest, current stock:

OPs - 2
Smear Campaigns - 0
Surveillance Equipment - 7

So 2/3 of the remaining mats required are pretty much AWOL after 6 months of playing the game in a balanced way (doing everything in a non-grindy way). So my options are either to go out of my way (with no guarantee that RNGesus will be kind to me) grinding these, or just hope I might obtain them in the next few years of playing? Not that difficult, yeah right.
 
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Oppressor is awful though and really needs a buff - it also happens to be the only pre-modded gun I found so far with an Audio Masking mod on. The game clearly hates me.

But aside from that weapon and the massively (boringly so) OP of the Executioner I find the balancing between the rest of the weapons okay.

I've focused my efforts on a laser/kinetic rifle combo now, seems to work alright in High CZs once at G3 and beyond.

What still annoys me most about the mechanics overall is the constant need to reload due to bullet sponge enemies combined with the frankly stupid decision to replicate ship shields, and the fact they regenerate while taking damage after broken. That is utterly tedious design.

Good post, although i don't find many bullet sponge enemies. They generally go down quickly. I hear the Enforcers in High CZs can take a pounding, but that's understandable, they are like the Star Marines of ED.
 
Not sure if this is a serious post, but let's just assume for a minute it is.

I've been playing on my current CMDR since end of June, while not daily but most of the days.The 5 Push is easy to get hold of, granted. As for the rest, current stock:

OPs - 2
Smear Campaigns - 0
Surveillance Equipment - 7

So 2/3 of the remaining mats required are pretty much AWOL after 6 months of playing the game in a balanced way (doing everything in a non-grindy way). So my options are either to go out of my way (with no guarantee that RNGesus will be kind to me) grinding these, or just hope I might obtain them in the next few years of playing? Not that difficult, yeah right.

Playing since end of June means nothing.
You need to hit certain type of settlements in systems that are ruled by a certain government type to get smear campaigns

Search the forums

Surveillance equipment are easy - they're found in security lockers or as mission rewards
OP are kinda rare, but not that rare
 
Has there been any admittance that the shooter flow in Odyssey is sub-par? Dumping an entire magazine of headshot's into someone with the Oppressor and barely getting their shields down is so pathetic, but the Executioner will drop their shields entirely in one body shot, and kill most enemies with another (Meaning only 2/3 of the magazine to kill an enemy, as opposed to needing two whole magazines from a rifle).. Does anyone honestly think that's well balanced?

I get the desire to make laser weapons good against shields, and kinetic weapons good against flesh, but between the reload speeds, weapon switch speeds, and total magazine capacities, it's just frustrating..

Just double the amount of enemies and give them half the health..?

This isn't an unsolvable issue, but if the dev's or rest of the community don't believe this kind of combat flow is just unfun, then I'll just admit I'm wasting my time on this game and move on to something else..
I've been pointing that out from day one. I even used video examples, but nope nno nono nooooooooooo not going down that road.

 
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Its not tedious at all, and even me, who isn't a great shooter person, has no problem handling it.
Its not that its hard to handle.
Its a bad base to begin with, with little room for variation.
Ground combat would be in a better place imo if Odyssey had two combat suits(armour or shields) and weapon damage was reworked.
 

Deleted member 182079

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Good post, although i don't find many bullet sponge enemies. They generally go down quickly. I hear the Enforcers in High CZs can take a pounding, but that's understandable, they are like the Star Marines of ED.
I think once you're at G3+ they're much less bullet spongey - my Aphelion strips shields of the lesser enemies in 3-4 hits, while stronger ones take longer; my kinetic rifle (keep forgetting the names) does a decent job of finishing them off once shields are down. The more I think about it it really is the need to switch weapons/reload that prolongues fights more than they should. Although with G1/G2 guns NPC's take too long to take down imo. In fairness though it's not something completely new, Bethesda games regularly feature enemies with tediously high health pools, but again they don't normally carry (quickly) re-chargeable shields, I think that's the main source of irritation for me in EDO.

The Enforcers really are annoying sponges though, they take ages to take down alright (at least with a laser/kinetic combo).
 
Its not that its hard to handle.
Its a bad base to begin with, with little room for variation.
Ground combat would be in a better place imo if Odyssey had two combat suits(armour or shields) and weapon damage was reworked.

Ugh, that would be horrible. Imagine being in the armour suit and getting hit by laser.

Better FD's design than that.
 
And how is this related to Odyssey in particular or Elite in general?
The numbers of NPCS attacking vs the TTK, as @OP mentioned the TTK is ridiculous, boost the numbers and reduce the TTK.

edit:

if you use the executioner G5 it's a 2 hit TTK the drawback is it's slow and only 3 mag capacity, 5 if you mod it.
 
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I think once you're at G3+ they're much less bullet spongey - my Aphelion strips shields of the lesser enemies in 3-4 hits, while stronger ones take longer; my kinetic rifle (keep forgetting the names) does a decent job of finishing them off once shields are down. The more I think about it it really is the need to switch weapons/reload that prolongues fights more than they should. Although with G1/G2 guns NPC's take too long to take down imo. In fairness though it's not something completely new, Bethesda games regularly feature enemies with tediously high health pools, but again they don't normally carry (quickly) re-chargeable shields, I think that's the main source of irritation for me in EDO.

The Enforcers really are annoying sponges though, they take ages to take down alright (at least with a laser/kinetic combo).

Ah, i just bought most things at G3... no point starting at G1 when you can buy G3 off the bat.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
Playing since end of June means nothing.
You need to hit certain type of settlements in systems that are ruled by a certain government type to get smear campaigns

Search the forums

Surveillance equipment are easy - they're found in security lockers or as mission rewards
OP are kinda rare, but not that rare
Don't you see how silly this is though - I have to basically search the internet for locations as the game doesn't tell me this at all, and the game will also not spawn them sufficiently to allow collecting them as part of organic gameplay. I realise that Elite heavily relies on out-of-game information but it's a bit rubbish that they haven't addressed this with the new DLC - instead they doubled down on it.

Edit - Surveillance Equipment is indeed fine as I picked up 7 as part of normal gameplay i.e. without actively seeking them out. The problem lies with the other two. If Frontier would at least add some hints (like they do with ship mats) of the circumstances where they can be found that'd be something, but of course they didn't.
 
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The numbers of NPCS attacking vs the TTK, as @OP mentioned the TTK is ridiculous, boost the numbers and reduce the TTK.

But it takes only a few seconds to take down most NPCs, and that's with unengineered grade 3 weapons. Can only imagine that once you G5 and engineer stuff you only need to fart in their general direction and they will fall over. How much quicker do you want it?

Also, boosting number of enemies, probably not a good idea... you might be aware FD are facing performance issues as it is with Odyssey.
 
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