Buff the Federal Dropship

[Agony_Aunt]

I absolutely do mean that every ship should be the best at something.

That's not exactly possible. There are more ships than roles. What should the Sidewinder be best at? What should the Challenger be best at? What should the Adder be best at?

What you've described is basically an inferior python.

Python costs more. There are always better ships. Should the Dropship then be made equal to the Python? Should its price then be increased? Perhaps all ships should be equally capable at everything and cost the same?

Or, should we accept that despite credits raining from the sky, ship price still plays a role in the capability and capacity of ships?

 

[DemiserofD]

That's not exactly possible. There are more ships than roles. What should the Sidewinder be best at? What should the Challenger be best at? What should the Adder be best at?

Sure it is. There is an almost unlimited number of roles; for example, the Corvette is best at short range bulk passenger transport, but the Beluga is better for long-range sightseeing missions, and a third ship would definitely be best for the extreme long range passenger missions. It's not like you could say any one ship is the best at "passenger transport"; that encompasses many niches.

Of course, small ships in general are currently fairly pointless, but that has more to do with a lack of content than the ships themselves. But if content were added that was beneficial to small, extremely agile ships, they would instantly become useful.

By contrast, there is no content that could be added that would make the Dropship useful as it currently stands.

The only even potential metric would be price, but even there, the fact that you need to unlock it first costs way more in terms of time and effort than it costs to buy a python outright. Even there, it's simply not worth the effort.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Sure it is. There is an almost unlimited number of roles; for example, the Corvette is best at short range bulk passenger transport, but the Beluga is better for long-range sightseeing missions, and a third ship would definitely be best for the extreme long range passenger missions. It's not like you could say any one ship is the best at "passenger transport"; that encompasses many niches.

Of course, small ships in general are currently fairly pointless, but that has more to do with a lack of content than the ships themselves. But if content were added that was beneficial to small, extremely agile ships, they would instantly become useful.

By contrast, there is no content that could be added that would make the Dropship useful as it currently stands.

The only even potential metric would be price, but even there, the fact that you need to unlock it first costs way more in terms of time and effort than it costs to buy a python outright. Even there, it's simply not worth the effort.

Well, sorry, but i still disagree the Dropship needs a buff. Its a fine ship as it is.

We see lots of these threads, buff ship X, but its rare to see a nerf ship X, for example, the Python, which is by far the most versatile and best ship for so many things. So before we buff more ships, adding more power creep, how about we start by nerfing the Python, which would do more to bring ships in line with each other.

 

[Northpin]

The only problem with the dropship is the fact that she's rank locked - although the effort to unlock her it's rather minimal.
Else... she's perfect as the starter poors-man-python

 

[Gordon Freeman IV]

Sure it is. There is an almost unlimited number of roles; for example, the Corvette is best at short range bulk passenger transport, but the Beluga is better for long-range sightseeing missions, and a third ship would definitely be best for the extreme long range passenger missions. It's not like you could say any one ship is the best at "passenger transport"; that encompasses many niches.

Of course, small ships in general are currently fairly pointless, but that has more to do with a lack of content than the ships themselves. But if content were added that was beneficial to small, extremely agile ships, they would instantly become useful.

By contrast, there is no content that could be added that would make the Dropship useful as it currently stands.

The only even potential metric would be price, but even there, the fact that you need to unlock it first costs way more in terms of time and effort than it costs to buy a python outright. Even there, it's simply not worth the effort.

I run a sidewinder for planet exploring. It can land anywhere easily

 

[DemiserofD]

Well, sorry, but i still disagree the Dropship needs a buff. Its a fine ship as it is.

We see lots of these threads, buff ship X, but its rare to see a nerf ship X, for example, the Python, which is by far the most versatile and best ship for so many things. So before we buff more ships, adding more power creep, how about we start by nerfing the Python, which would do more to bring ships in line with each other.

The Python is fine, too; it's the best multirole ship. But it's not as good at combat as the Krait, it's not as good at core mining as the Clipper, it's not as good as the FDL at pvp, etc. A ship that's good at everything but not the best at anything is fine, as long as it's the best at that.

My viewpoint is: Why NOT buff those ships? What downside is there to making them worth using? Because right now, the only people who use them are those who are roleplaying and/or don't care about stats, and those are obviously people who shouldn't be considered when it comes to gameplay balancing decisions.

 

[DemiserofD]

The only problem with the dropship is the fact that she's rank locked - although the effort to unlock her it's rather minimal.
Else... she's perfect as the starter poors-man-python

Unfortunately, credits just aren't a great metric for balance anymore. At least, not enough to define an entire ship. Every ship should have at least one more.

 

[Northpin]

Unfortunately, credits just aren't a great metric for balance anymore. At least, not enough to define an entire ship. Every ship should have at least one more.

How about a rather unique combination of cargo capacity, hull hardness and defenses and weapons?
All those at the cost of jump range, speed and driftiness

 

[Lugh]

I honestly don't mind "useless" ships. So long as they look unique and have decent lore behind them.


The federal line however has to be one of the best co-op lines. It can pump out a lot of damage and take a beating so long as it has a friend to manage aggro. Their biggest vulnerability is that other ships can easily hang out in their blind spots.

 

[DemiserofD]

How about a rather unique combination of cargo capacity, hull hardness and defenses and weapons?
All those at the cost of jump range, speed and driftiness

Unfortunately, the Python is better at all of those things.

I'd be down for buffing the hardness to make it a uniquely hard ship, though, like in my second proposal.

 

[DemiserofD]

I honestly don't mind "useless" ships. So long as they look unique and have decent lore behind them.


The federal line however has to be one of the best co-op lines. It can pump out a lot of damage and take a beating so long as it has a friend to manage aggro. Their biggest vulnerability is that other ships can easily hang out in their blind spots.

I don't mind ships that are even 99% useless, as long as they have a single meaningful purpose. I just want a REASON to own a ship from a statistical level.

If the only reason you own a ship is looks, it might as well be an ARX ship kit. At least that way I can have the appearance AND decent stats as well.

 

[Lugh]

I just want a REASON to own a ship from a statistical level.

like i said its one of the best ships out there if you're flying in a wing

 

[Bigmaec]

I agree with a Fed Brick buff.

 

[DemiserofD]

like i said its one of the best ships out there if you're flying in a wing

How is it any better than a Python for that purpose? Or a Gunship, for that matter?

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

How is it any better than a Python for that purpose? Or a Gunship, for that matter?

solo wing assasiantion mission in simialrly kitted pve builds in python, then in dropship, then you get idea why dropship dont need buff amd why it's unique, guess same may be true if you face enemy players. Game. especially after Ody have sirious balancing issues regaring ships pricing and mission rewards, but even after this dropship still can do things python cant, but of course if you do only cargo runs in solo then using dropship makes no sense. Btw, i would rather replace this and simial;r thread with "krait need a nerf" rather than buff x

 

[Agony_Aunt]

My viewpoint is: Why NOT buff those ships? What downside is there to making them worth using? Because right now, the only people who use them are those who are roleplaying and/or don't care about stats, and those are obviously people who shouldn't be considered when it comes to gameplay balancing decisions.

Because it just leads to constant tweaks and buffs (because nobody likes a nerf) leading to more and more power creep. "Oh, that ship got a buff, now this one is weaker, buff this one" and on and on and on. Didn't we learn anything from engineers?

I'm fine with ships that are really way behind in terms of price/performance, like the Asp Scout, but more or less every other ship in the game isn't in a bad spot.

No, let's stop buffing as a tool for balance. Let's go the other way, let's nerf and see how much people get behind the nerfs to balance things. Any takers? Anyone? Bueller?

 

[DemiserofD]

solo wing assasiantion mission in simialrly kitted pve builds in python, then in dropship, then you get idea why dropship dont need buff amd why it's unique, guess same may be true if you face enemy players. Game. especially after Ody have sirious balancing issues regaring ships pricing and mission rewards, but even after this dropship still can do things python cant, but of course if you do only cargo runs in solo then using dropship makes no sense. Btw, i would rather replace this and simial;r thread with "krait need a nerf" rather than buff x

I'm not sure what this is meant to prove, but I've done wing assassination missions in everything from a vulture to a T10, and I'd say the python is notably superior. It's more agile, more durable, and has more damage output by a substantial margin.

Because it just leads to constant tweaks and buffs (because nobody likes a nerf) leading to more and more power creep. "Oh, that ship got a buff, now this one is weaker, buff this one" and on and on and on. Didn't we learn anything from engineers?

I mean, the biggest problem with engineers is that only a few mods are worth using and the rest are notably underpowered, so...I'd say the exact same arguments I'm making for the Dropship could be made for an awful lot of engineering options, too. Like Rapid Fire; if it's inferior in every circumstance, then it should be buffed.

Power creep is a bogeyman that only exists if things are buffed without the proper consideration. There are plenty of games that have buffed under-performing options with no issues at all. Heck, even Diablo 2 is going back and buffing weak skills, decades after release!

I'm fine with ships that are really way behind in terms of price/performance, like the Asp Scout, but more or less every other ship in the game isn't in a bad spot.

There are a significant number of ships that see virtually zero usage past about the 25 hour mark. The Dropship, the T7, the Asp Scout, the Beluga, the Keelback, and even the Crusader could all use tweaks, either subtle or significant, to bring them into a more optimal balance point.

I don't think these tweaks should be massive, or should make these into the default option, but I do think they should all do SOMETHING best well enough to be worth using for that thing, even if it's an incredibly small niche.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Power creep is a bogeyman that only exists if things are buffed without the proper consideration.

cough FD cough

 

[DemiserofD]

cough FD cough

Honestly, I've never gotten that vibe from Fdev. If anything, they're more likely to release things that are too weak rather than too powerful. The Mamba is a great example, as a ship that is broadly inferior to the FDL, with only a few niches where it's superior.

But then, I think the Mamba is basically a perfect example of balance like what I'm talking about.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Honestly, I've never gotten that vibe from Fdev. If anything, they're more likely to release things that are too weak rather than too powerful. The Mamba is a great example, as a ship that is broadly inferior to the FDL, with only a few niches where it's superior.

But then, I think the Mamba is basically a perfect example of balance like what I'm talking about.

Fake news! The Mamba is the superior ship!