General Showing criminals at the jump.

[SergMx]

Surely you are the one trying to change the game to better suit you? Why don't you play the game the way the game is made and not try to change the game to play how you want?

Because this is the suggestion section.

Here's the man above who wrote that he plays BGS, gets a lot of bad reputation points and he doesn't care about it. But for some reason he did not like the fact that someone will see him as such, but nevertheless that he is so and so can find out all.

 

[Fake Newts]

Am I suggesting that players with bad reputations be punished

You misunderstand my point. I'm not disagreeing with the basic thrust of your suggestion, I don't care if notorious players' presence in a system is flagged... I'm challenging the practical usefulness of notoriety as an indicator. If you want to mark dangerous systems somewhere in the UI it'd be much more productive to base it on PKs or interdictions.

 

[varonica]

Because this is the suggestion section.

I think you need to stick to the rules of the game that the developers have conceived and not to play by their own rules.

Then maybe you ought not to treat others with disdain, otherwise you get the same back.

Your suggestion is a bad suggestion, it's a discussion forum and other people are allowed to criticise suggestions as much as you are allowed to make them, maybe not telling people what to do would be a good place to start.

 

[Fake Newts]

the man above who wrote that he plays BGS, gets a lot of bad reputation points and he doesn't care about it. But for some reason he did not like the fact that someone will see him as such

I never said this, I couldn't care less if people saw me as notorious... Which is part and parcel of notoriety being a broadly inconsequential indicator.

 

[SergMx]

You misunderstand my point. I'm not disagreeing with the basic thrust of your suggestion, I don't care if notorious players' presence in a system is flagged... I'm challenging the practical usefulness of notoriety as an indicator. If you want to mark dangerous systems somewhere in the UI it'd be much more productive to base it on PKs or interdictions.

But that's the existing game mechanics. A criminal with a bad reputation is not hiding at the station, but continuing his business.
It doesn't matter if it's a ganer or someone else, let people additionally know this and make their own decision.

For example in the Odyssey voice said stop scanning, and it was not always clear that it is bad that they added a big red inscription on the screen?

 

[Fake Newts]

But that's the existing game mechanics. A criminal with a bad reputation is not hiding at the station, but continuing his business.

Again... Thousands of people 'continue their business' with notoriety points with zero intent to cause harm to other players. If you 'hide in a station' you're quite frankly wasting your time and electricity, lol.

You'd need a better indicator if the system were not to be dismissed offhand by many players, if it were dismissed offhand there'd be no point in having put the effort into developing it.

 

[SergMx]

I never said this, I couldn't care less if people saw me as notorious... Which is part and parcel of notoriety being a broadly inconsequential indicator.

Sorry I already wrote that this is not my native language and I don't quite understand maybe everything.
Then I don't understand why you are against it at all, I understand if the person agrees, I understand if he doesn't care.
But I can not understand if a person is against it and does not explain why this is so.
Is not when you earn a big bad reputation you do not do it yourself?

 

[Fake Newts]

Then I don't understand why you are against it at all

Yes maybe some nuance is lost in translation.

I'm not 'against' your suggestion because it wouldn't affect me. I'm essentially trying to show you that it wouldn't have the effect you desire. Think of it as a way to improve your suggestion: indicate systems with a high rate of player interdictions, that'd be a much more useful indicator.

If you flagged systems that contained a player with any amount of notoriety it'd flag hundreds of systems with innocuous pve activity and immediately render itself useless.

 

[SergMx]

Again... Thousands of people 'continue their business' with notoriety points with zero intent to cause harm to other players. If you 'hide in a station' you're quite frankly wasting your time and electricity, lol.

You'd need a better indicator if the system were not to be dismissed offhand by many players, if it were dismissed offhand there'd be no point in having put the effort into developing it.

Bad reputation is given for killing good people, whether they are NPC or not.
Sometimes I accidentally kill the wrong person or Odyssey I do a mission nalagalnuyu to kill. I need it but then to be punished for it in the form of sitting on the station. This is my choice.

 

[Fake Newts]

I need it but then to be punished for it in the form of sitting on the station. This is my choice.

I don't see the relevance of your choice to essentially punish yourself as a result of pve crimes and the suggestion to warn players about dangerous systems.

Not many players (that I know) behave like you do, and even if they did how would the system differentiate between a notorious player cowering in a station and a notorious player intending to club seals?

 

[SergMx]

Yes maybe some nuance is lost in translation.

I'm not 'against' your suggestion because it wouldn't affect me. I'm essentially trying to show you that it wouldn't have the effect you desire. Think of it as a way to improve your suggestion: indicate systems with a high rate of player interdictions, that'd be a much more useful indicator.

If you flagged systems that contained a player with any amount of notoriety it'd flag hundreds of systems with innocuous pve activity and immediately render itself useless.

Yes, I know what you mean. But as far as I know the game does not want to separate people and NPC. Is there such a division in the game?

Why bad reputation is not given only for people?

I understand it, and even made a long time ago a proposal not to show the hollow square ...

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

I'm not suggesting that people with bad reputations should be made worse off, I just want them to be better known.

Neither am I as such, but I think in order to get information that would normally require a scan you should have to sign up to a role that gives you that info. Also, it only really should apply to busy, violent places like CGs (not some random place where people might be notorious or bountied from BGS work).

 

[Fake Newts]

Why bad reputation is not given only for people?

Good question. I'm sure you can figure out the answer.

If the game didn't differentiate between players and NPCs then a notoriety indicator would be even more meaningless.

I actually agree that Elite would do well to reduce the power gap between players and NPCs and ideally I'd like both to be subject to as many of the same rules as possible but, with Elite as-is, with no persistence to NPCs, disguising players in an already sparse 'mmo' would be broadly detrimental.

 

[SergMx]

Neither am I as such, but I think in order to get information that would normally require a scan you should have to sign up to a role that gives you that info. Also, it only really should apply to busy, violent places like CGs (not some random place where people might be notorious or bountied from BGS work).

Scanner.
As far as I know, you can stay wanted but not have a bad reputation. I'm really not a developer, but I think the NPC does not have a bad reputation.

 

[zikolach]

A bit offtopic question...

What if notority could be removed by allowing to pay bounties at interstellar factors multiplied by coefficient defending on notoriety, e.g. bounty*2^x, where x is notoriety?

 

[Fake Newts]

A bit offtopic question...

What if notority could be removed by allowing to pay bounties at interstellar factors multiplied by coefficient defending on notoriety, e.g. bounty*2^x, where x is notoriety?

Yeah I personally hate the lack of agency players have with the 'just wait 20 IRL hours!' system. Having special missions to clear your record might be a good opportunity. Currently it leads to a lot of stupid stuff like being locked out of a station for helping the controlling faction, or encouraging suicide bounty-wipes for convenience.

Looking for other ways to pay it off should come after sitting down and really figuring out whether notoriety as a system is actually bringing anything to the table currently. What content is it generating? What do players think it does vs what it actually does? Is it still needed or relevant as a tool to prevent large scale BGS manipulation through murder? Who benefits from it?

Personally I can see seeds of why they thought it would be a good system, but no fruit. Make it worthwhile and engaging for the players it affects, both lawful and lawless. As it is its pretty much detrimental to new players and an occasional inconvenience to veterans and nothing more.

 

[Bigmaec]

Actually I like this idea, it's like EDrecon works.

You jump into a system and get a notification "notorious CMDR detected"

Why not...

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Yeah I personally hate the lack of agency players have with the 'just wait 20 IRL hours!' system. Having special missions to clear your record might be a good opportunity. Currently it leads to a lot of stupid stuff like being locked out of a station for helping the controlling faction, or encouraging suicide bounty-wipes for convenience.

Looking for other ways to pay it off should come after sitting down and really figuring out whether notoriety as a system is actually bringing anything to the table currently. What content is it generating? What do players think it does vs what it actually does? Is it still needed or relevant as a tool to prevent large scale BGS manipulation through murder? Who benefits from it?

Personally I can see seeds of why they thought it would be a good system, but no fruit. Make it worthwhile and engaging for the players it affects, both lawful and lawless. As it is its pretty much detrimental to new players and an occasional inconvenience to veterans and nothing more.

How would you see the fruit if it takes the form of a lack of AFK murder sprees tanking INF from closed modes? Hard to detect.

 

[Fake Newts]

How would you see the fruit if it takes the form of a lack of AFK murder sprees tanking INF from closed modes? Hard to detect.

Two things: it's still perfectly possible to murder-spree NPCs. Happens all the time. Moreso now with Odyssey than ever. Secondly, they also nerfed and modified the negative INF effects of ship destruction at the same time as adding ATR, which is the main reason we don't see as significant swings from it.

What's also sad is there was clear potential to expand cop brawling into an actual sanctioned activity, where people would've faced waves of increasing intensity and difficulty, with better cop ship fits and engineering. Instead they just decided to make it binary.

 

[Screemonster]

Actually I like this idea, it's like EDrecon works.

You jump into a system and get a notification "notorious CMDR detected"

Why not...

I've suggested before that a feature like the inara security report should be integrated into the game.

Even if it doesn't say "the bad dude is here right now", tagging the system for a few hours if there's a cmdr-on-cmdr murder there would at least let people know they're heading into a hotspot and they should fly accordingly.