welp .. Finally got my 60fps in Odyssey on-foot

60fps_1.jpg

.. sort of.

I was stuck with a bounty so I had to blow myself up with a shiny red barrel. Upon waking up in the holding cell, I was - for the first time in Odyssey - greeted with the generous gift of 60fps. I could crank up the graphics settings and for the first time I saw how they affect performance, I could really go crazy with them. But it was anything but smooth - something was still constantly loading and off-loading stuff on the GPU even though there was nothing happening in the scene - stutterfest all the way and super irritating.

And now I'm heading back into the black to experience the full glory of trying to do on-foot combat at 21fps where no trick, tweak or graphics setting will help ... :p
 
View attachment 285369
.. sort of.

I was stuck with a bounty so I had to blow myself up with a shiny red barrel. Upon waking up in the holding cell, I was - for the first time in Odyssey - greeted with the generous gift of 60fps. I could crank up the graphics settings and for the first time I saw how they affect performance, I could really go crazy with them. But it was anything but smooth - something was still constantly loading and off-loading stuff on the GPU even though there was nothing happening in the scene - stutterfest all the way and super irritating.

And now I'm heading back into the black to experience the full glory of trying to do on-foot combat at 21fps where no trick, tweak or graphics setting will help ... :p

Have you tried that shader mod that removes smoke and dust?
 
I have the one using 3DMigoto, if that's what you mean. It gives around 1-5fps more performance, depending on the settlement.

Yeah, that one. 1-5 FPS isn't much, some report much better than that. I guess a lot depends on where the stress on your system is.
 
Yeah, that one. 1-5 FPS isn't much, some report much better than that. I guess a lot depends on where the stress on your system is.
Still haven't figured it out. CPU is around 35-65% usage while GPU is sitting at around 40%. ¯\(ツ)
If I'd had to guess, the culling is still broken because I see so much stuff flicker in and out and something is constantly being updated on the GPU and it seems like the bus is choked (which shouldn't happen). Horizons runs fine.
 
There's more at play with these crazy FPS at settlements than just smoke/shaders... very often the whole area triggers a reload/resfresh and out of the blue and I get frame drops from stable +60FPS to -30FPS with no apparent reason... on a 3090StrixOC. This is not about PC hardware or how powerful it is... seems to be bad coding plain and simple.

For comparison, in a settlement, my GPU pulls about 300W of power in Odyssey... whilst Fortnite draws 240W with Ray Tracing ON! I know this is not a fair comparison because DLSS, but still...
 
VRS - Smoke and other Alpha transparency fixes
Variable-rate Shading VRS is in the graphical settings for Metro Exodus, it's used so that shaders can be scaled down when they are far away from the player.
so turned off smoke could be a work-a-round, but it's not fixing the root issue.

Again massive speculation here :
How can any system know when smoke is too far away or behind something to be rendered correctly, when the current system may still have problems with its
occlusion and culling

Still haven't figured it out. CPU is around 35-65% usage while GPU is sitting at around 40%. ¯\(ツ)
If I'd had to guess, the culling is still broken because I see so much stuff flicker in and out and something is constantly being updated on the GPU and it seems like the bus is choked (which shouldn't happen). Horizons runs fine.
i.e. the "bug" that Kay pointed out in the first alpha as to why the performance was poor because of a bug they were trying to lock down in the occlusion and culling, so they just "turned it off" for the alpha.

They might have turned it back on, they might not, was that bug fixed??
This is what I've been maintaining since every update had graphical fixes but performance is still poor and and everyone claims it's shaders or lighting which is the issue,
when instead it was something like the AI triying to map all the rocks outside of the Settlements "stamp" because the AI wasn't culled to just inside the settlement because....the culling system is perhaps not working as intended?

So going from personal experience, the internal spaces of Starports and Settlements are pieced together by the procedural generation from what the Background sim says is required, and when the alpha was released I still had my old GPU and memory card.
And I got a whole slew of graphical issues, such as "seeing where the joins where" and crossing the thresholds of the joins to indeed choke the FPS.

Flying around planets we got the high-detail planetary rocks rubberbanding in and out of view as the game camera can't judge distance/height/depth correctly???

My time burning out as a developer
Once upon a time, I put some stuff together for flash and unity projects that were "dynamic" in nature, with graphical elements lego'd together with other graphical elements.
Being an unvetted programmer with undiagnosed Dyslexia at the time, I wound up doing my head in.
Usually, it was
1) artists not sticking to the naming conventions of their layers correctly aka their exported Assets NOT being set up correctly.
2) me not "reading" naming conventions properly ergo the code not being able to find the correct layer properly.
3) the code that was supposed to Enable/disable, turnOn/TurnOff, did more things inside those Methods( or not enough things) to the correct layers or they themselves were being overridden or not overriding similar named Methods by another code.

So semantically, we trust what we perceived.
The code is fishing for "AssetName" and "some asset" is found and the code tried to turn "On/off" from the multiple layers of the multiple assets joining together. Reading through the log files or trying to step through the code, everything looks like it's behaving but something is clearly NOT going to plan.

My Debug Solution.
If it was "me" and my burning-out brain was still melting down by stress and anxiety when I would WORRY myself into a deeper pit of anxiety resulting in a desperate attempt by creating an overkill debug tool that takes everything back to basics, to circumvent my own dyslexia and inability to decipher lots of complex code, or naming issues created by myself and/or the rest of the team.

I would go insist on a UnitTestBot.
so as the locations are procedurally generated. UnitTestBot throws down a grid of nodes.
The nodes then literally catalog ALL models and assets and their hierarchy of layers caught between them and their neighbor and the status of said assets
ALL culling layers are searched for and shut off. (If naming conventions have adhered to, then this shouldn't be an issue)
Then the test is performed again.
Then report between the disparagings or compiling links between the nodes should start to shake loose the issues.

The second level would be that the nodes then start to turn off where there connections are clearly not an issue.
Leaving you with a group of internal and external nodes.
The third phase would then to move the internal nodes to doors / centers of rooms, to be used for environmental mapping

Take some sample data of settlements and starports layouts, and get devs to recreate them by hand, and then compare the handcrafted work with the code driven work.
 
Last edited:
If I'd had to guess, the culling is still broken because I see so much stuff flicker in and out and something is constantly being updated on the GPU and it seems like the bus is choked (which shouldn't happen).

I keep hearing about culling. Shouldn't that have been fixed in one of the last 8 updates?
 
I keep hearing about culling. Shouldn't that have been fixed in one of the last 8 updates?
Partially fixed, which introduced some weirdness into the mix where I see stuff in front of me disappear (cone reversed sometimes). I would need to look at the render buffer to see how much of it is fixed and how much is still borked. AI pathfinding and overlapping navigation boxes, which were mentioned above, might be an issue but I'm not seeing the game utilizing my CPU properly so still not sure what's really going on. FDev probably does and is working on it.
 
Bugs are just that, bugs.

The harder ones to crack tend to be embedded deep and nastily, usually because people overlook them because (handwave) those trusted parts of the code shouldn't be a problem, but sometimes they are.

I had a school teacher from Luleå Technical University, who actually helped the bump mapping code for Nvidia in the "early days". He did some work for Microsoft and was doing a bug fix for Outlook, a simple fix took him months because the error was a memory allocation deep down that sort of didn't work 100% which is fine, because of Type, but as the documentation for the code claimed it was a certain type, and all the interfaces above it also used the documented methodologies he only discovered it after taking everything apart to its bare bones.

Human error.

It's like the Storage Module Filter bug in odyssey. The new outfitting menu which took a lot of flak because it launched, well, broken due to a bug, so they had to fallback to version of the menu that tried to emulate prior behavior, which was not it's design).

Ship outfitting was fine in horizons UNTIL Horizons added module storage and transfer.
It wasn't really handled well, it was just a cloned menu system with less features bolted onto the side of the other menu,

Odyssey fixed that by combining the two systems together and make the whole process more efficient (there are some things I could nag at, sure, but bigger fish to fry)
But it took a few updates a bug in the filter system.

because the filtering system had an issue separating the stored ship module components in your own storage from the stations' ship component storeroom own storage.

You can see how miss communication from working from home of people we all love and trust, and every time you read through the names of the functions trying to debug what goes wrong because it all makes sense..... but it's not working as it should. so you start putting debug elements everywhere and things still work as they should.

I was pretty good at debugging because not only am I dyslexic but I also have Attention Deficit Disorder, so that long-term experience thing others have that helps build up "expertise" to gut-feel their way through a problem, I don't have, and got to start from scratch. Crap I can't even trust my own perception at times :D so I was insanely rigorous and nagging senior devs over banal stuff and dragging their good names through Meetings when big bosses asked why bugs haven't been found yet.

When it comes to bigger issues like dynamically compositing new assets together, all the steps have to "line up" and be "correct", just one variable messing up, can affect it, because searching for a specific asset and trawling through their layered components in order to turn on/off specific components to necessitate that "composite".


No one cares about the l,000,000 lines of code written correctly,
they only care about the one line of code that is malformed by probably just one character.
(ps. that first "one" was actually an upper case i and not a 1, just to highlight my point...actually I can't remember if it was a lower case L which is also l, or was it I at least the vertical bar is different right? | from i I l L )
Scary to think that one dev with "personalised" text editor could magically screw up everything for everyone else.....not speaking from experience at all..... :D
 
Last edited:
Partially fixed, which introduced some weirdness into the mix where I see stuff in front of me disappear (cone reversed sometimes). I would need to look at the render buffer to see how much of it is fixed and how much is still borked. AI pathfinding and overlapping navigation boxes, which were mentioned above, might be an issue but I'm not seeing the game utilizing my CPU properly so still not sure what's really going on. FDev probably does and is working on it.
Love the fact that players know how to inspect that sort of thing. FD should have fixed this issue first. We were supposed to get the version that was the last alpha test that everyone said was great.

I don't doubt they're working on it, as you said, but again: should have been addressed on Update 1 or 2. Xbox and PS4/5 users are still out in the cold.
 
Love the fact that players know how to inspect that sort of thing. FD should have fixed this issue first. We were supposed to get the version that was the last alpha test that everyone said was great.

I don't doubt they're working on it, as you said, but again: should have been addressed on Update 1 or 2. Xbox and PS4/5 users are still out in the cold.
I don't think they ever stopped nor was it ever deprioritized. Some bug hunts require you to basically pull apart everything to find where and when it stops working, basically making you have to rebuild it all over again which can almost take the same sort of time as it did to make it in the first place.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom