Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

sovapid

sovapid
Navigare Necesse Est said:
sovapid is the expert on that and I trust he deals with it in the appropriate way.
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Surefoot

S
LittleAnt said:
"Real games" shut off all risky features (the ones that takes forever to do and with an uncertain deliverability). When it's too complex, they cut and you get a game pretty similar to what exist on the market.
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Oh wow, you dont really play any games do you, there are quite a few spectacular examples of note in the last 10 years alone. CiG didnt "take risks" by grabbing as much money as they could from backers by promising absolutely everything to everyone. It's not "taking risks", it's over-promising and under-delivering.
 

thistle

T
LittleAnt said:
"Real games" never try to do what CIG is trying to do.
"Real games" shut off all risky features (the ones that takes forever to do and with an uncertain deliverability). When it's too complex, they cut and you get a game pretty similar to what exist on the market.
That's why we fund CIG, to let a company took these riks. And for now, I already love the result.

ED for exemple is a "real game" so there is very little chance that ship interiors will be added in the game.
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A few things occur to me.

1. CIG weren't taking these "risks" initially, they were creating a simple game, one they could have created and finished on the same timescale as ED. Don't rewrite history. The gullibility of people with too much money buying jpegs of spaceships that didn't (and in some case still don't) exist shocked CIG, as much as it shocks me today. And they took advantage of it. Fair play, I respect the grift to be honest.

2. In 2012 the risky proposition was trying to create a 1:1 simulation of the entire galaxy. Not using an FPS game engine off the shelf to create FPS levels in the shape of spaceships. I mean sure, you could argue wrangling that engine over a decade to try and add more and more 'space' and make it do things it wasn't designed (important concept) for was "risky", I'd say a wasteful rather than risky.

3. The fact FDEV have not added interiors is a valid criticism of their development decisions, but it's nothing to do with being a real game or not. Management decisions rather than development, I imagine. CIGs management decisions have been laughably worse than FDEVs however. But they have been lucky, which leads me to ...

... there's one single solitary factor that means CIG is still in business and SC/SQ42 are still in development. Whales spending obscene amounts of money space jpegs. I imagine the first thing Chris does every morning is laugh in continuing disbelief.
 

CMDR Reza Malin

CMDR Reza Malin
thistle said:
there's one single solitary factor that means CIG is still in business and SC/SQ42 are still in development. Whales spending obscene amounts of money space jpegs. I imagine the first thing Chris does every morning is laugh in continuing disbelief.
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This is the key and most amazing thing about the entire SC project.....that if you create an idea that is just cool enough, just captures a good theme enough and is just tangible enough to tease, certain people will pay big money.
 

Infwhale

Infwhale
Agony_Aunt said:
Hey! We hadn't had a chance to vote on the sub-title name for the thread!

Come on guys, what do you want to call it?

1) Star Citizen: Development by Surprise!
2) Star Citizen: Hotel California
3) Star Citizen: Store Citisn't
4) Star Citizen: Once the pipelines are complete the content spigot will open
5) Star Citizen: Card removed from roadmap
6) Star Citizen: Mole pretends he is a mole in a Mole
7) Star Citizen: You can't criticize alpha!
8) Star Citizen: They also fixed a jitter offset computation error with unified raymarching so that it works in harmony with the guided filter denoiser, and added transmittance-weighted depth-computation, which controls the width of the denoise kernel tin guided filtering and raymarching up-sampling results
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I'll go for 9 - It ain't Elite DANGEROUS, But we might fix some bugs, someday, maybe.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
thistle said:
A few things occur to me.

1. CIG weren't taking these "risks" initially, they were creating a simple game, one they could have created and finished on the same timescale as ED.
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Actually, go back to the initial pitch. While the scope was much smaller, it was never going to be a simple game. Even back then CR was talking about the BDSSE. The space sims to end all space sims.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
Ebob said:
Yes. Star Citizen is No more. Chris Roberts is in Prison, CIG is bankrupt. Line of Defense has become the Most played space MMO. Derek was right.
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:unsure: Some of those statements are clearly false while others are actually true or questionable. I presume you try to lumpsum all of them together to try and pass the message that all are false? That is disingenuous at best and a straight lie at worst.

"Star Citizen is No more": Well, the net effect of a project that has been in alpha and development hell for 10 years with no release date in sight feels exactly the same as a "no more" to be honest. So to most practical purposes (unless we see a clear and imminent release) this is not too far from the truth with regards to gamers.

"Chris Roberts is in Prison": Obviously False. Although given how things are going the possibility of private or regulatory legal action against CIG and/or Chris Roberts may not be as remote as we think. In fact CIG has been already served with legal suits several times including the CryTek one where CIG seems to have been forced to pay for a new license.

"CIG is bankrupt": Financially probably not yet, although it is hard to tell how healthy their finances really are since their financial blog is heavily curated and it hides fundamental information. Morally and ethically Chris Roberts and CIG in general seem to be quite bankrupt indeed though.

"Line of Defense has become the Most played space MMO": Probably false, although not sure about how relevant this is in this thread: The SC alpha is even worst than LoD in the MMO department since it is broken up in tiny pieces on separate servers capped at 50 players each like a glorified but extremely buggy War Thunder.

"Derek was right". Whatever his personality and style, so far it seems he actually was right when he mentioned back in 2015 that SC would need a capable engine team and at least 150 million. 6 years and over 450 million later there is no released product yet showing that Chris Roberts and CIG incompetence have surpassed even Derek´s most pessimistic projections.
 
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Ebob

E
Viajero said:
:unsure: Some of those statements are clearly false while others are questionable. I presume you try to lumpsum all of them together to try and pass the message that all are false? That is disingenuous at best and a straight lie at worst.

"Star Citizen is No more": Well, the net effect of a project that has been in alpha and development hell for 10 years with no release date in sight feels exactly the same as a "no more" to be honest. So to most practical purposes (unless we see a clear and imminent release) this is probably true with regards to gamers.
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It simply doesn't exist, it was all a dream.
Viajero said:
"Chris Roberts is in Prison": Obviously False.
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No. He scammed people, why is he not in Prison! We must be faithful to our lord and saviour Derek Smart and file lawsuits...
Viajero said:
"CIG is bankrupt": Financially probably not yet, although it is hard to tell since their financial blog is heavily curated and does not show fundamental information in it. Morally and ethically Chris Roberts and CIG in general seem to be quite bankrupt indeed though.
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90 days tops. It's all gonna be over by the 2017 holiday livestream....
Viajero said:
"Line of Defense has become the Most played space MMO": Probably false, although not sure about how relevant this is in this thread: The SC alpha is even worst than LoD in the MMO departmen
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Line of Defense is broken up in tiny extremely buggy map segments that have just as much of a chance of crashing your game upon loading into one as spawning you under the map
Viajero said:
since it is broken up in tiny pieces on separate servers capped at 50 players each like a glorified but extremely buggy War Thunder.
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Certainly wouldn't call SC "extremely buggy" anymore. LoD on the other hand...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFVOkfqAlUA&ab_channel=Attafel
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
Ebob said:
It simply doesn't exist, it was all a dream.
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So far at least that is indeed correct. 10+ years without a released product.

Ebob said:
No. He scammed people, why is he not in Prison!
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He did? Well if he did he just really seems to be really good at dodging bullets!

"Stuart Moulder, the Microsoft general manager who oversaw the software giant’s relationship with Digital Anvil, came to believe that Microsoft money intended for game development was instead used for the movie."

Etc etc

Ebob said:
90 days tops.
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"There isn’t a single publisher or developer on this planet who could build this game as pitched, let alone for anything less than $150 million."

So far he was bang on the money, literally. Even you already agree that the game as pitched will not be delivered.

Ebob said:
Line of Defense is broken up in tiny extremely buggy map segments that have just as much of a chance of crashing your game upon loading into one as spawning you under the map
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That is literally Star Citizen?

Ebob said:
Certainly wouldn't call SC "extremely buggy" anymore.
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Lol, you really did go there!

Source: https://youtu.be/hMRduyCgqp8

Source: https://youtu.be/UUjfmT7zo4Y

Source: https://youtu.be/Z1_Jes2SvIw


Source: https://youtu.be/41qQCEdY_Vs


Source: https://youtu.be/wUeQhEOEfOA

Also, just for fun a little bug video comparison in Youtube for Star Citizen
 
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Ebob

E
Viajero said:
"Derek was right". Whatever his personality and style, so far it seems he actually was right when he mentioned back in 2015 that SC would need a capable engine team and at least 150 million. 6 years and over 450 million later there is no released product yet showing that Chris Roberts and CIG incompetence have surpassed even Derek´s most pessimist
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And what makes Derek the most reliable financial guy to make these statements? Because he's a gamedev... who has made very successful games indeed! (lol) But oh well, seeing as he is the lord and saviour of the refund faithfuls, yes, now YOU are the faithfuls! (To derek, of course) I doubt this discussion is going to be fruitful at all.
May his name be hallowed and his predictions cometh true... may CIG crumble in hell... (90 days tops)

Anyway, some more predictions from me: CIG will need atleast 600 million and 3 more years to finish Star Citizen! Maybe I should start a "Bobspeak" blog´.
 
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