Is Update 10 bad news for consoles?

[SasaThargoidsHunter]

Aren't they?


Because as I said earlier, it's a much more complex game.




I think you do not understand how annual reports work, but they did also mention Elite in their annual report don't forget that. Frontier are doing just fine as a company. Why would the take funds from other projects just to improve the one you want them to, in the way you want them to?

There's no real surprise in my mind, we've been through the peaks and troughs with Elite many times over the years. I still believe they will port Odyssey to console one day as they did with the base game. But they are an ambitious company with a lot of projects, making them a lot of money, so we will have to see when that day comes.


Ummm. No.

honestly ? They didn’t outrunned NMS by far? Why ? Because NMS has so hard evolved that it feels like a complete different game in its vanilla version. So then with they’re Update politic which is free of charge and more constantly then elite they have grown cross Plattform to an huge game, everybody knows NMS for the messed up release, but now everybody knows this game for the best example of game evolving, elite was too known for that and it was too nominated for this price ,,best evolving game,, this lays back in time like 3-4 years.

elite is complex indeed, but the game is not rocket sience for the company who stamp it out of the dust with their very own engine calls cobra engine. So then they should known they’re own skills, and honestly at the moment it feels not like this, breaking the game over and over again with updates is one things, but breaking it with minor bugfix is some sort of weird.

so that the annual report mentioned elite is well known, although it’s well known that they sold it into this report as a third party game (all plattform), brings me to the old question where is the communication for the future on the console. The annual reports was this time a little bit more honest, but when you read it closely you’ll see that they are more focused on the other IPS, which is normal because they are huge compared to Elite.

what you should know is, that I’ve been on board since the release of elite on ps4 and I think I’m not lonely with that, this situation was never experienced before, not in this huge impact.

Edit: we shouldn’t forget that some Key peoples aren’t there anymore, like dr. Key Ross as an example.

 

[Ted Striker]

I do understand, but you're missing the point.
Even with all fixed in PC, there is no viable way to run this engine on old gen consoles.

And I'll give a 'red pill'. Frontier will never fix everything in PC.

o7!

That's pretty much what I've suspected from early on during Odyssey play testing.

This won't be able to run properly on old gen consoles, if at all. The way it's going I'm not sure even the latest consoles can run it properly, but the devs would at least have a fighting chance with them. Old gen consoles? No chance.

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

Frontier needs Odyssey to come to console, or Frontier stops throwing money at Odyssey.

I'd suggest that over a year into the new console generation, that "console" should be defined as current gen only.

Frontier will struggle to attract enough new players on PC as it stands to recoup already outlaid development costs. So they'll need to either announce a console port, or start adding new flagship features to attract new buyers from the existing PC platform. Small pond though, relatively speaking. Exporting Odyssey to Console and introducing Cross Play might just claw back some of the money lost so far.

I'd hope to see some news about either a big new flagship feature for Odyssey, or a console port for Odyssey, within the next financial Quarter. If neither of these things arrive there's a big question over Elite's future in my mind...

 

[tolm]

Elite is a game that only exists in the first place because of the community and the Kickstarter process. So it’s no surprise that the same community would have an opinion about the lack of progress in any given area: you can’t have it both ways!

I do understand why some folks who are able to play Odyssey on PC are frustrated by the continued threads bemoaning the lack of clear information about when console development would be considered possible. The question is why are they frustrated with the people asking the questions rather than the people not giving any answers …

That said, I do agree that asking “when will Odyssy come to console” is a pointless question to ask right now. But I maintain that asking “what needs to be the state of the PC version for console development to be possible” (so we can actually gauge progress towards that from the PC updates) seems entirely reasonable.

Given we’re not being provided with that information - what should we do (instead)?

- Raise an issue in the tracker? We’ve had stuff in there for consoles (current-gen support, 4K support for PS) for quite some time that doesn’t seem to get any traction.

- Or perhaps ignore the issue entirely and just assume that it’ll still happen? If not for current requests for information, FDEV might reasonably assume no one on console cares and just drop the game. That helps no-one.

 

[Bottom Hat]

ok then it’s my fault, sorry for that, guess your thoughts are right.

Cool. I am just trying to give a different person to where yours is from, which is the point of a discussion forum.

Taking everything as a personal attack on you, because of your point of view, is just daft, and serves no useful purpose. I'm glad that you can see the futility of the way you are approaching the discussion, as the least it is doing is upsetting you and probably making you unwell. It's certainly not helping the cause you are trying to advance, and that is a shame in my humble opinion.

 

[denispage]

That said, I do agree that asking “when will Odyssy come to console” is a pointless question to ask right now. But I maintain that asking “what needs to be the state of the PC version for console development to be possible” (so we can actually gauge progress towards that from the PC updates) seems entirely reasonable.

Perfect.
Remember, Frontier said that first they would fix the PC version and after that, see the consoles. So it makes sense everybody asks for PC status.

 

[denispage]

Cool. I am just trying to give a different person to where yours is from, which is the point of a discussion forum.

Taking everything as a personal attack on you, because of your point of view, is just daft, and serves no useful purpose. I'm glad that you can see the futility of the way you are approaching the discussion, as the least it is doing is upsetting you and probably making you unwell. It's certainly not helping the cause you are trying to advance, and that is a shame in my humble opinion.

I really like your posts making fun of everything and you're very good discussing serious subjects too.

Kudos!

 

[Bottom Hat]

My objective here is to make available the points of view, keeping in mind that's is gonna be hard to see EDO in last gen consoles.
Knowing that, what could be a better exit/path to go.

And you're right, I should add a different thread topic.


Yeah... I do understand you. :/


That's the reason I would like to have a 'definitive' conversation about it.
You're 100% right.
The way is today is victimized, childish and useless.

My post wasn't a personal attack mate, I hope it didn't come across that way. And tbh you weren't really who I was addressing mate, as you always try to be balanced, so apologies if it came across that way. I just get sad reading the same stuff come up time and time again from one side that feels it's victimised, and uses fabricated facts to elaborate a truth!

Glad you see the point of view though mate, and again I hope it didn't come across as a personal attack as it wasn't meant that way at all!?

 

[denispage]

My post wasn't a personal attack mate, I hope it didn't come across that way. And tbh you weren't really who I was addressing mate, as you always try to be balanced, so apologies if it came across that way. I just get sad reading the same stuff come up time and time again from one side that feels it's victimised, and uses fabricated facts to elaborate a truth!

Glad you see the point of view though mate, and again I hope it didn't come across as a personal attack as it wasn't meant that way at all!?

I know my friend, and you explained all the situation in a way that I never couldn't.
Like I said, kudos!
And pls... continue to show your opinion. It good for the community.

 

[Bottom Hat]

Agree. There's lots of immaturity around most of this behaviour, so it's best left ignored.

That's a two way street though as you full well know old chap, so trying to suggest otherwise is a little bit hypocritical, and reinforces what I was saying in my previous posts.

 

[SasaThargoidsHunter]

Cool. I am just trying to give a different person to where yours is from, which is the point of a discussion forum.

Taking everything as a personal attack on you, because of your point of view, is just daft, and serves no useful purpose. I'm glad that you can see the futility of the way you are approaching the discussion, as the least it is doing is upsetting you and probably making you unwell. It's certainly not helping the cause you are trying to advance, and that is a shame in my humble opinion.

So I do see my problems in here, apologies for that. Perhaps it has to do, with the past, and that we are rumbeling together back in the days, but I’m here to discuss about the game which I’ve loved to play, so feel free to discuss with me, because this is one of the key points here, to discuss about it.

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

- Or perhaps ignore the issue entirely and just assume that it’ll still happen? If not for current requests for information, FDEV might reasonably assume no one on console cares and just drop the game. That helps no-one.

The PlayStation 5 has sold 17.85 million units in 14 months, while the Xbox Series X|S sold 11.82 million units.

That's a potential sales pool of almost 30 million CMDRs all looking for a new experience - maybe that's Odyssey?

Odyssey has disappointed sales-wise (how many of the PC sales went 'free' to LEPers? LEP money spent long ago). It needs to start generating sales, so that Frontier can continue developing and supporting the game.

 

[Konan]

What's sad to me is how there is a tribal element between some PC and console cmdrs. Console cmdrs love the game as much as any PC cmdr. Maybe even more so since many play on without any certainty for the future. Every dime console cmdrs spend on buying the game and cosmetics helps build this game that EVERYONE participates in. I just don't understand the sometimes hate for console players that is spewed on forums, videos and such. And if it's not hate...then it's just total indifference. It pushes people away from the game when they don't feel accepted or dismissed as the "red headed step child". And every player pushed away is one less dime spent in development....Elite is a niche game...it needs EVERY cmdr it can get. What's more is that I feel that Fdev has the same mentality sometimes.....enjoy your odyssee version of Elite.....and if they cancel consoles...well....your welcome for the hundreds of dollars I spent supporting it. Enjoy.

 

[Ozric]

honestly ? They didn’t outrunned NMS by far? Why ? Because NMS has so hard evolved that it feels like a complete different game in its vanilla version. So then with they’re Update politic which is free of charge and more constantly then elite they have grown cross Plattform to an huge game, everybody knows NMS for the messed up release, but now everybody knows this game for the best example of game evolving, elite was too known for that and it was too nominated for this price ,,best evolving game,, this lays back in time like 3-4 years.

elite is complex indeed, but the game is not rocket sience for the company who stamp it out of the dust with their very own engine calls cobra engine. So then they should known they’re own skills, and honestly at the moment it feels not like this, breaking the game over and over again with updates is one things, but breaking it with minor bugfix is some sort of weird.

so that the annual report mentioned elite is well known, although it’s well known that they sold it into this report as a third party game (all plattform), brings me to the old question where is the communication for the future on the console. The annual reports was this time a little bit more honest, but when you read it closely you’ll see that they are more focused on the other IPS, which is normal because they are huge compared to Elite.

what you should know is, that I’ve been on board since the release of elite on ps4 and I think I’m not lonely with that, this situation was never experienced before, not in this huge impact.

Edit: we shouldn’t forget that some Key peoples aren’t there anymore, like dr. Key Ross as an example.

I really don't understand what you're trying to say, sorry. Is this your feeling that NMS is a better evolved game and so therefore Elite is not outrunning it? What does that even mean? But anyhow NMS really has nothing to do with releasing Odyssey on console. Neither do Hello Games, or RSI, or anyone/anything else other than what Frontier want to do.

Mike Brookes moved off of Elite in 2016. It's not as though staff leaving or moving teams is a new thing.

Frontier will struggle to attract enough new players on PC as it stands to recoup already outlaid development costs. So they'll need to either announce a console port, or start adding new flagship features to attract new buyers from the existing PC platform. Small pond though, relatively speaking. Exporting Odyssey to Console and introducing Cross Play might just claw back some of the money lost so far.

Do you know they haven't already recouped the "outlaid development costs"? Do you know what that outlay was, or how much they made, or how much they will have to spend to introduce cross play, or how that would work with the fact that Cmdr names are not unique across platforms?

- Raise an issue in the tracker? We’ve had stuff in there for consoles (current-gen support, 4K support for PS) for quite some time that doesn’t seem to get any traction.

- Or perhaps ignore the issue entirely and just assume that it’ll still happen? If not for current requests for information, FDEV might reasonably assume no one on console cares and just drop the game. That helps no-one.

Because the forum is the only way for them to gather information?

Also the issue tracker is for bugs, not feature requests.

The PlayStation 5 has sold 17.85 million units in 14 months, while the Xbox Series X|S sold 11.82 million units.

That's a potential sales pool of almost 30 million CMDRs all looking for a new experience - maybe that's Odyssey?

Back once again with the potential sales How many of those do you think will want Odyssey? How many of those wanted Elite?

But far more pertinent is how does that compare to the potential sales pool of the PC market? Is it big enough to justify them diverting work to next gen consoles (as sales is the only thing that will determine this apparently)?

 

[Dillon Fallon]

The PlayStation 5 has sold 17.85 million units in 14 months, while the Xbox Series X|S sold 11.82 million units.

That's a potential sales pool of almost 30 million CMDRs all looking for a new experience - maybe that's Odyssey?

Odyssey has disappointed sales-wise (how many of the PC sales went 'free' to LEPers? LEP money spent long ago). It needs to start generating sales, so that Frontier can continue developing and supporting the game.

For reference, GTA V has sold 155 million copies since 2013 across PS3, 4, 5, Xbox 360, One and Series S/X and PC. I don't need to say how big the GTA series or Rockstar are.

The idea that Frontier can contemplate 1/5 of those sales across just PS5 and XBox series S/X aross any time period just seems like fantasy.

Especially when you consider total sales of ED won't exceed 10 million across all platforms since 2014. Think about the percentages and 30 million doesn't seem like it's going to be a big pool for that many sales of this type of game. We'll be extra money and it'll hurt FDev to scale back after saying Odyssey will have a console release but sales on console won't save anything if it's going down the pan anyway. Best hope it's already fine.

 

[nanite2000]

8 months and 10 updates later, and Odyssey performance hasn't improved by any meaningful amount - maybe 15-20% performance improvement on average compared to release? But it really needs to be closer to a 200% improvement to have any chance of being workable on last-gen consoles.

At the current rate of progress, I don't think it would be financially viable to release the game on last-gen consoles because it's going to be years before it reaches acceptable levels of performance, and I can't see FDev continuing to invest that much time and effort into the game. It wouldn't make good business sense.

The alternative that's been mentioned is to make Odyssey only available for next-gen consoles. Unfortunately, that is equally not viable, since it means FDev would be required to maintain 2 separate codebases and servers (Horizons and Odyssey), and ensure that all future features and content don't break Horizons compatibility. Again, it doesn't make good business sense to do that.

This update contains relatively few bugfixes (compared to previous updates) and no new content, and I feel this reflects a reduced level of effort that FDev are willing to invest in the game going forward.

So, here we are, with nowhere to go.

 

[denispage]

Back once again with the potential sales How many of those do you think will want Odyssey? How many of those wanted Elite?

But far more pertinent is how does that compare to the potential sales pool of the PC market? Is it big enough to justify them diverting work to next gen consoles?

Unfortunately without numbers is difficult to opine on this.
Does anyone knows how many copies were sold and active players in PS4 and Xbox?
To be honest, elite isn't a kind of game that makes a lot of sales in consoles.
No doubt Frontier has these numbers and the decision will be based on that.

 

[styles784]

"Is Update 10 bad news for consoles?"

No. It isn't.

That is all.

 

[sandkid]

A one to one recreation of the galaxy with planets that are thousands of Km in diameter, is not impressive...

What I think is part of the issue is you took scale literally, it's not just the size of the sandpit or the balls within the sandpit in Elite, but the sheer amount of things there are to do and the interactions between them. I personally have always found the term "mile wide, inch deep" a bizarre one for a sandbox game.



Not to mention the star system that the Stellar Forge predicted years before Astronomers found one the same distance from Sol, with the same star type, with only one less planet (although obviously no one has travelled to the real Trappist -1 to check ). The Stellar Forge that people at JPL play Elite to look at?



You want to compare Frontier to two other companies in order to discuss whether Odyssey should be released on Console? Seems an odd choice.

How many games have Frontier released compared to Hello Games since they released NMS (developed or published)?
How many games have CIG or RSI or whatever they are now, actually released?




I guess that depends on who you deem to be three of the top streamers, or how that metric has been measured. And what the conversion rate from their streams was before, or whether they had an long established community who already had the game(s).

I see many opinions and few facts. I'm sure the sentiment is shared.

Your disagreement is noted, but I think we're at an impasse.

FDev needs to commit, in no uncertain terms, that EDO will come to lastgen consoles. That's my position. You'll continue to disparage that position and call it unreasonable, or you won't. Why you care - that a large (see: tens of thousands) community of players feels forgotten - is unimportant, and that we're all just whining and demanding, is beyond me. Perhaps that's all it is. We're just worthless consumers who shouldn't be listened to, who need moderators to tell off and silence, and memes of 'bait' from white knight trolls to destroy any discussion of the existence of this community and its obviously invalid concerns.

That is flaming, by the way, but it's also true. That's the difference.

Doesn't really matter, I suppose. I uninstalled almost a year ago...there's a strong argument that my opinion is not only invalid, but pointless. FDev's continued, willful silence in the face of a problem they created themselves is only further proving the latter.

It's pointless. I'd much rather you just say that, then argue in their defense. If the company is so right and we're so wrong, one would think they don't need an active presence against us, the rabble. Yet here you are. I guess pest control is a fact of life though, isn't it? Either you kill the rats, or we defecate on your pristine - but boring - countertops, never asking why the rats are looking for food in your kitchen in the first place.

 

[Bottom Hat]

I really like your posts making fun of everything and you're very good discussing serious subjects too.

Kudos!

I'm glad you can see that I don't constantly try to be daft in my own strange way mate! There are always points to be made on both sides of a discussion as you do as well, so it's nice to read that not everyone thinks I'm trying to pee on their opinions lol!