Ah, well I don't even try breaking the interdiction. I just set my throttle to 0, explode the npc pirate and move on. When they're dead they also don't interdict you again. And you get the bounty on their heads as a nice bonus
Stacking the elite trade missions that trigger anaconda pursuers used to be one of the best ways to collect G5 manufactured materials. A dozen or so materials piñatas sent right to you! What could be better? Cutter is perfect for knocking down those slow pokes like bowling pins.
I don't even have a Type-9. Nor would I want one.That's what I do when I fly a Python, but not in a T9, for example. I would have to make too many compromises to make it combat capable and have enough cargo space at the same time. And now if you tell me that you are capable of killing a wave of 4 lethal or even elite Condas and that in a T9, I would demand video proof before I believe that.
The OP wanted to know whether cannons were good on a Cutter, and thus I shared some of my personal experiences with weapon setups in a Cutter. At no point have I ever claimed to have done any kind of combat in a Type-9.
Either way. I play video games to have fun, and exploding a pirate or two is always a good time, for me that is. Your mileage may and probably does vary.
What's a Type 9?
Heap of junk that'll lose you a load and fetch u a rebuy.
Cutter is the only way.
PAs with packhounds ensures a quick kill with just a few volleys. Remember those hounds continously fired keeping the conda slap bang where l want him.
I use a krait ll rather than a crap flying python for smuggling. That too is packhounds but with pacifiers hehe.
I guess we all have our choices.
I choose to live in an anarchy system (Hodur) and smuggling is our main income, plus its influence. Both positive and negative hehe.
Ships cannot be crap. Have to be strong pvp specced cos I'm perma open and we get alot of "visitors".
Someone asked Me recently why perma open.
Easy, cos it's not knowing, it's dangerous.
Type 9s would not fare well.
Heap of junk that'll lose you a load and fetch u a rebuy.
Cutter is the only way.
PAs with packhounds ensures a quick kill with just a few volleys. Remember those hounds continously fired keeping the conda slap bang where l want him.
I use a krait ll rather than a crap flying python for smuggling. That too is packhounds but with pacifiers hehe.
I guess we all have our choices.
I choose to live in an anarchy system (Hodur) and smuggling is our main income, plus its influence. Both positive and negative hehe.
Ships cannot be crap. Have to be strong pvp specced cos I'm perma open and we get alot of "visitors".
Someone asked Me recently why perma open.
Easy, cos it's not knowing, it's dangerous.
Type 9s would not fare well.
Cannons are bad.
The original fantasy seems to have been: MCs have high RoF and fast bullets against small ships, Cannons have high Armor Piercing against large ships.
However, that's out of the window once you start engineering, because Cannons don't get access to Corrosive Shell.
And corrosive MCs completely outperform Cannons shooting an uncorroded target: roughly the same DPS, slightly higher Armor Piercing, higher total damage, far better shot speed, distributor draw and thermal load. And a less fiddly reload.
Speaking of fiddly: Cannons' projectile speed varies with hardpoint size (and mounting), making all-cannon builds an even less enticing prospect.
The two advantages Cannons have are no damage falloff, and access to High Yield Shell.
The former is mostly wasted, because the slow projectile speed will cause more misses, unless you're shooting at an NPC fleeing in a straight line.
The latter is nice in theory, because it allows you to skip a Corrosive sidearm and go to town on modules instead. It's been grossly overnerfed, however, and is not worth the current -41.5% damage multiplier. You have to get through the shields first, after all.
And finally, Plasma Accelerators do the slow projectile thing far better, mostly because they deal 60% True Damage, which translates to a huge effective DPS boost against engineered targets.
The original fantasy seems to have been: MCs have high RoF and fast bullets against small ships, Cannons have high Armor Piercing against large ships.
However, that's out of the window once you start engineering, because Cannons don't get access to Corrosive Shell.
And corrosive MCs completely outperform Cannons shooting an uncorroded target: roughly the same DPS, slightly higher Armor Piercing, higher total damage, far better shot speed, distributor draw and thermal load. And a less fiddly reload.
Speaking of fiddly: Cannons' projectile speed varies with hardpoint size (and mounting), making all-cannon builds an even less enticing prospect.
The two advantages Cannons have are no damage falloff, and access to High Yield Shell.
The former is mostly wasted, because the slow projectile speed will cause more misses, unless you're shooting at an NPC fleeing in a straight line.
The latter is nice in theory, because it allows you to skip a Corrosive sidearm and go to town on modules instead. It's been grossly overnerfed, however, and is not worth the current -41.5% damage multiplier. You have to get through the shields first, after all.
And finally, Plasma Accelerators do the slow projectile thing far better, mostly because they deal 60% True Damage, which translates to a huge effective DPS boost against engineered targets.
Don't forget that Corrosive Shell applies to Cannons, too! A Cobra armed with 2x medium gimballed corrosive multicannons and 2x small fixed cannons will do 45% more hull damage to a ship like a Federal Assault Ship, compared to the same ship using fixed C1 multicannons!
Further don't forget that you only need a single corrosive weapon for all weapons to benefit. That's why so many of my builds have one (1) small corrosive MC or frag cannon. More than that is wasting a potentially useful experimental slot.
I'm well aware, that's what I was referring to with the "corrosive sidearm" above. Sadly, in the context of Cannons that always necessitates the use of gimbals because of different shot speeds. Thus incurring the DPS loss and weakness to chaff. (Well, you might use some clever engineering to get Long Range Cannons to match MC shot speeds. But then you're stuck with LR on all your Cannons. It would be nice if there was a way to engineer the MC shot speed down instead, but there isn't.)
Anyway, I certainly didn't want to say "Cannons are useless", and DemiserofD gave a good example of how they can be useful. But I'd argue they're more on a balance level with Powerplay weapons, where you need to consider an exact scenario, do the math, and then possibly conclude they'll outperform the competition. As opposed to PA/Rail/Frag, which have clearly defined roles, and MC/Lasers, which are multipurpose enough that randomly slapping them onto hardpoints still gives a decent loadout.
Edit: If I was responsible for balance at FDev, I'd start by buffing all shot speeds to the values of small hardpoints. That might help them carve out a niche as long-range kinetic, as well as allow bigger ships to bring all/mostly fixed cannons without running into shot speed difference issues. Maaaybe also standardize range at 4km, but not sure if that's even needed.
The other thing would be reworking High Yield Shell to allow it to retain at least 90% of stock DPS against shields, while greatly tuning down the module destruction to compensate. Maybe make it reduce Armor Penetration, too. Then you can have a shield -> modules killstyle (with HYS, similar to rails), or a shield -> hull/modules killstyle (without HYS, like most other weapons). But it'll always be difficult to balance because Cannons are already good at destroying modules without HYS, so there's little wiggle room before things get out of hand.
Last edited:
Ah, but you'd have to do that anyway. It's good to bring up the shot speed issue here, since OP asked about a Cutter - even before you add MCs to the mix, shot speed really complicates a Cutter build. What you'd really like to do is put a bunch of fixed weapons in the near-axial hardpoints on the main body (due to convergence you want something different on the nacelles anyway, either seekers or utilities like corrosive MC / emissive pulse turrents), so it's important that OP understand that you can't just slap fixed cannons on there and expect it to work. The different shot speed per cannon size means those guns won't converge properly anyway.
Thank you to all of the Cmdrs for putting their advice, opinions, personal choices and recommendations. It is really informative to see all the different views and experiences. I also realize there are weapons that are less effective but are sometimes fun to use and effective if used in the right way.
Since I am willing to experiment a bit but still taking into consideration all of the discussions above, I have come up with this Cutter build.
Basically it has two gimbaled TV beams to drop shields on fire group A, the B fire group will have the two MCs on the outer hard points and the fixed cannons with near matched projectile speeds on the main fuselage, MCs and Cannon on separate triggers. The MC can be pulsed to apply the corrosive effect every now and then and then line up the fixed cannons and let of a salvo or two as the target goes through the sweet spot. If needed I would target the PP, FSD or Thrusters modules and pick the target apart.
If I can control the engagement distance, I should be able to handle almost any NPC with my raw shields of 2000MJ and 4480MJ of thermal.
This should get rid of almost any NPC pirate that is stupid enough to interdict me. If I see I am taking too much damage, I will just go 4 pips to engines and wake out. Anything that could damage me will not be able to catch me and anything that can, I should get rid of easily.
Keep in mind my objectives are first to have fun, second collect mats, third trade for profit. Two is fun when killing pirates, especially doing it using different that the normal, “easy kill” weapons.
For a while I flew in an iCourier with frags and lasers just because it is less capable than the Krait or Challenger which is my main BGS ships. These can handle any NPC without a sweat, even wing of two or three.
I like building and engineering ships but it is a bit of a chore collecting mats and I don’t like the logging in and out at the farming sites like Dav’s Hope, etc. Therefore I try to always include collecting mats while doing missions.
O7 Cmdrs, fly dangerous.
Since I am willing to experiment a bit but still taking into consideration all of the discussions above, I have come up with this Cutter build.
Basically it has two gimbaled TV beams to drop shields on fire group A, the B fire group will have the two MCs on the outer hard points and the fixed cannons with near matched projectile speeds on the main fuselage, MCs and Cannon on separate triggers. The MC can be pulsed to apply the corrosive effect every now and then and then line up the fixed cannons and let of a salvo or two as the target goes through the sweet spot. If needed I would target the PP, FSD or Thrusters modules and pick the target apart.
If I can control the engagement distance, I should be able to handle almost any NPC with my raw shields of 2000MJ and 4480MJ of thermal.
This should get rid of almost any NPC pirate that is stupid enough to interdict me. If I see I am taking too much damage, I will just go 4 pips to engines and wake out. Anything that could damage me will not be able to catch me and anything that can, I should get rid of easily.
Keep in mind my objectives are first to have fun, second collect mats, third trade for profit. Two is fun when killing pirates, especially doing it using different that the normal, “easy kill” weapons.
For a while I flew in an iCourier with frags and lasers just because it is less capable than the Krait or Challenger which is my main BGS ships. These can handle any NPC without a sweat, even wing of two or three.
I like building and engineering ships but it is a bit of a chore collecting mats and I don’t like the logging in and out at the farming sites like Dav’s Hope, etc. Therefore I try to always include collecting mats while doing missions.
O7 Cmdrs, fly dangerous.
That's seems like a good build commander. That should teach those pirates a lesson!
On the projectile speed difference. I went for max damage and didn't match the projectile speeds. So I have 900 m/s for the huge cannon and 1051 m/s for the mediums. For targets with a high line-of-sight rate (i.e. flying a perpendicular course) the HUD presents two aimpoints. That is slightly confusing but I aim for the aimpoint farthest ahead of the target (aimpoint of the slowest protectile) and because NPC pirates mostly fly big ships the fast projectiles almost always hit the ship albeit a little forward. For targets with a low line-of-sight rate the HUD gives just one aimpoint.
On the projectile speed difference. I went for max damage and didn't match the projectile speeds. So I have 900 m/s for the huge cannon and 1051 m/s for the mediums. For targets with a high line-of-sight rate (i.e. flying a perpendicular course) the HUD presents two aimpoints. That is slightly confusing but I aim for the aimpoint farthest ahead of the target (aimpoint of the slowest protectile) and because NPC pirates mostly fly big ships the fast projectiles almost always hit the ship albeit a little forward. For targets with a low line-of-sight rate the HUD gives just one aimpoint.
If pirates in T10s manage to wake out too often, don't forget that ramming is a weapon, too, at least for a Cutter. Nibble them down to their limit of cowardice, e.g. 51 % or 41 % hull, stop firing and get a good ram in before you continue firing. The ram will take their hull instantly far below the point where they would have wanted to start charging their FSDs.
It doesn't matter if cannons are the best choice or not if you want to have fun giving them a try. There is a youtube video somewhere of a T10 with SLF armed only/mostly with cannons winning a PVP fight against an FDL. Pilot skill has a lot to do with it of course.
On your build you linked I'll make a suggestion on your sensors. Light weight modification isn't always the best option for ships involved in combat or ships that are so heavy to start with. If you went long range grade 1 or 2 on the 7D sensors you only lose 1m/s on top speed and about a quarter of a light year jump range and you'll give yourself more time to line up on targets you can actually target with your weapons. With the grade 3 light weight sensors your sensor range is not much greater than the range of the huge canon.
To illustrate my point, I went on wing pirate massacre missions with a friend recently, both of us in Kriat IIs. I run long range grade 3 sensors and he had light weight 3. I was killing targets faster than him because I can identify, scan, target and then boost in to destroy them faster than he could because he loses time on being able to identify and target them in the first place. 7.83km sensor range vs 5.40km on the Kriat II.
Very valid points raised regarding the sensor LW v LR, I usually have Long Range G3 on my combat ships as standard and Light Weight G3 on my trade and exploration ships. With the Cannons it may make sense, but if I will only engage targets in self defense (post interdiction), rather than offensive, i.e. bounty hunting will it still make a difference to keep the LW G3?
I try to save weight where I can, especially if not needed, it is about 35 tons difference. No real effect on Cutter‘s speed but it does have a small effect on the jump range.
Just checking my own Cutter build, it is running 7D long range grade 3, but that's mainly due to my long range weapons strategy and using the Cutters speed to keep out of range of slower ships like Anacondas and still hit them. Cutter is only used for trading and community goals that need commodities to be shipped.
To OP, I modified your Cutter ship build.
For those nay-sayers about Cannons. Cannons (turrets) are an excellent defensive/offensive hardpoint choice. The C2 hardpoints are paired centerline/lower and wings/upper which makes for good cannons (turret) placements. Engineered with Long Range (6km/3km drop off) with Dispersion (lower/upper) and Force Shell (lower/upper) paired one for each hardpoint location, and you have regular Gimble (no utility slot needed) and a disruption effect to knock "stagger" ships in pursuit.
Should the NPC come in front of you, you'll devastate their shields and rip into their hull. The turrets well continually fire, whether they move out of FA arc. This helps against fast moving ships and any NPC ship using gimble (no can do); both of these engineering types prolong your shields/hull while you can focus on killing the target.
I use these on my cargo armed Cutter, and NPC interdictions are free extra credits when I dock. Remember to place your gFSD on 5 priority; this will shut it down when you get pulled into real space but turn on when hardpoints retracted and ready for jump again.
For those nay-sayers about Cannons. Cannons (turrets) are an excellent defensive/offensive hardpoint choice. The C2 hardpoints are paired centerline/lower and wings/upper which makes for good cannons (turret) placements. Engineered with Long Range (6km/3km drop off) with Dispersion (lower/upper) and Force Shell (lower/upper) paired one for each hardpoint location, and you have regular Gimble (no utility slot needed) and a disruption effect to knock "stagger" ships in pursuit.
Should the NPC come in front of you, you'll devastate their shields and rip into their hull. The turrets well continually fire, whether they move out of FA arc. This helps against fast moving ships and any NPC ship using gimble (no can do); both of these engineering types prolong your shields/hull while you can focus on killing the target.
I use these on my cargo armed Cutter, and NPC interdictions are free extra credits when I dock. Remember to place your gFSD on 5 priority; this will shut it down when you get pulled into real space but turn on when hardpoints retracted and ready for jump again.
Last edited:
If you enjoy power plant kills or causing module damage, a fixed cannon or two is a fun way to go about it.
Cannons have a special higher breach chance range, 60-90%, compared to the usual ranges of other weapons, typically 40-80%. Their breach damage is 95% of their total damage which is one of the highest ratios in the game. They‘re also faster than a PA at every size so they’re easier to aim, and they use a fraction of the WEP energy of a PA. There’s certainly nothing wrong with using a PA or several to kill power plants, and I use PAs to do that myself on the regular, but it requires a lot more power and potentially heat management. Cannons fire on a single AAA battery. If you miss, you’re not regretting your suddenly depleted WEP capacitor.
I‘m not even talking about High Yield Shell, which has ridden the nerf roller coaster over the years. Once you are confident with aiming fixed projectile weapons then you don’t really need the increased AoE from HYS, since it comes with a 35% damage loss. You can use HYS as training wheels for cannons until you feel that you’re ready to get rid of it. Dispersal field is a nice experimental, so you can hit ships so hard even their weapons get dizzy. Force shell is fun in a physics sort of way, but since it slows down the cannon shot it’s not as useful when trying to hit a power plant 360 noscope. You could even go with Smart Rounds if you tend to launch cannonballs at your friends “accidentally“. The bog standard oversized or auto loader are also there if you’re more conventional.
Oh, and don’t do this with gimbaled cannons. For a one and done weapon you don’t want it to be wiggling like jello when you’re trying to hit a module. Small aiming errors become large ones with distance.
Cannons have a special higher breach chance range, 60-90%, compared to the usual ranges of other weapons, typically 40-80%. Their breach damage is 95% of their total damage which is one of the highest ratios in the game. They‘re also faster than a PA at every size so they’re easier to aim, and they use a fraction of the WEP energy of a PA. There’s certainly nothing wrong with using a PA or several to kill power plants, and I use PAs to do that myself on the regular, but it requires a lot more power and potentially heat management. Cannons fire on a single AAA battery. If you miss, you’re not regretting your suddenly depleted WEP capacitor.
I‘m not even talking about High Yield Shell, which has ridden the nerf roller coaster over the years. Once you are confident with aiming fixed projectile weapons then you don’t really need the increased AoE from HYS, since it comes with a 35% damage loss. You can use HYS as training wheels for cannons until you feel that you’re ready to get rid of it. Dispersal field is a nice experimental, so you can hit ships so hard even their weapons get dizzy. Force shell is fun in a physics sort of way, but since it slows down the cannon shot it’s not as useful when trying to hit a power plant 360 noscope. You could even go with Smart Rounds if you tend to launch cannonballs at your friends “accidentally“. The bog standard oversized or auto loader are also there if you’re more conventional.
Oh, and don’t do this with gimbaled cannons. For a one and done weapon you don’t want it to be wiggling like jello when you’re trying to hit a module. Small aiming errors become large ones with distance.
Interesting approach, I will look into the possibilities.
Just one point, I prefer to have the FSD, sensors and thrusters power priorities set as 1, therefore if I need to disengage, i.e. loss of shield, or power plant, my FSD is online and ready to go, I can see the enemies and thrust is available to get out. All of the other modules can shut down if the PP is down to 40% and will not affect my ability to escape.
