Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Yeah the whole 'community can't be trusted with roadmaps' angle really has worked on some people. Has taken the spot light off the core underlying issue: Stuff not coming out of the pipes at volume. And the pipes themselves not seeming to lead anywhere that looks like game launch.

Lord knows how anyone but CIG should take the blame for that stuff. But some guys really are happy with the 'Dream game must take huge amount of time to make' logic. Ergo, the longer it takes, the better it's going to be...

No dev hell here. No sir. This is dev heaven, for sure...

There comes a point where you have to face up to the fact that CIG are taking their unaccountability for granted, that time comes when for years they have delivered little progress and as a result of that unashamedly remove the only thing people had to hold them to any slight of accountability.
That is what is really going on here and if you can't see that you're a ######## idiot, SaltEMike is a ####### idiot.
 
Well I still haven't tried it, but I understand some folk think that CIG have delivered to a level as well.

The point I'm trying to clumsily make, is that if it is aceeptable for one developer to be able to change plans because of circumstances, then surely it's acepptable for all developers?

Unless of course 'plans change' is a fob off which in reality explains nothing useful.

Its because there are various factors at play. One is of course the source of funding. FD mainly doing things on their own dime then delivering products, whereas CIG continue cap in hand without delivering. But also the manner of how things change.

CIG generate hype, and money, then walk back on it. And not just once, but repeatedly. And they always delay the negative news until after a ship sale. Can't have the negative news affecting their cash for ships business!

And when FD fail to deliver, they get called out for it, and rightfully so. But as i commented elsewhere, a lot of SC backers are like the proverbial goldfish, they seemingly forget CIG have pulled the rug before and fail to see they will do it again.

All devs have plans change, but none so much depend on delivering on their promises as CIG... well, you'd think so, but it appears that CIG can treat their backers like poo and they will continue to throw money at them.

So... i'm lost, i think the whole world is just topsy turvey at times.

At the end of the day, FD produced a game that was reviewable and people can decide whether to buy what is there based on what exists. Can't say the same for SC. Pre-orders, i think many of us will agree, need to die, because it shifts the risk from developers to consumers.
 
Yeah the whole 'community can't be trusted with roadmaps' angle really has worked on some people. Has taken the spot light off the core underlying issue: Stuff not coming out of the pipes at volume. And the pipes themselves not seeming to lead anywhere that looks like game launch.
For some CIG can do no wrong. However, this may not stop others realising that giving CIG money for limited results may not, after all, be a particularly good idea.
 
It just amazes me CIG haven't learnt a simple trick of managing expectations after all this time.

For years their roadmaps would be we (tentatively, plans can change, yadda yadda) will add A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H

Then comes the patch and they add

A, D, H, and sometimes out of nowhere Z.

Now they are basically saying, nah, we can't predict stuff at all, so we won't tell you anything.

But there is another way that works better.

You say next patch we are adding A and D.

Then, when you eventually add A, D, H, and Z out of nowhere, now you look amazing! And if you only manage A and D, nobody is the wiser! And on those odd occasions where you fail to deliver A or D, no worries, because on average you are exceeding expectations anyway.

If you consistently fail at delivering A and D or whatever, then you are completely boned anyway.

However, doing it that way is not as good for funding. Can't build the hype and make more ship sales.
 
All devs have plans change, but none so much depend on delivering on their promises as CIG... well, you'd think so, but it appears that CIG can treat their backers like poo and they will continue to throw money at them.

So... i'm lost, i think the whole world is just topsy turvey at times.

At the end of the day, FD produced a game that was reviewable and people can decide whether to buy what is there based on what exists. Can't say the same for SC. Pre-orders, i think many of us will agree, need to die, because it shifts the risk from developers to consumers.
I agree.

I gave CIG $35 in 2012 and nothing since.

I also gave Frontier .... money in 2012 and have suffered from change of plans, or maybe, if I'm being charitable, unrealised plans since.

Video games developers are businesses, but crowd funding had them acting like charities, expecting donations with no strings attached. As stated by AA, a poor model, especially for comsumers.
 
Again... what?



The shift to Sq42 is a good thing

Because this game needs to get out ASAP! or it will be just too old to be worth!
SC can wait but they have to be Clear and Cristalline on the development and the releases even for the whole plan because we bakers are their financing partners.

My reply.

How long can you keep this opinion up for? A year? 2, 4? 9 years? is there ever a point where you change your mind and think, "nah man, they are taking their unaccountability for grated and making any progress to the PU dependant on SQ42 as a convenient excuse"

You do have to chose because with the PU stagnant at some point the money dries up and we don't get anything at all, what people are paying for is the PU, not SQ42.
 
If you consistently fail at delivering A and D or whatever, then you are completely boned anyway.

2022 in review ;). (And 2021. And...)

The thing is though, they've just made it easier to spot. If the roadmap doesn't even dangle all the big Hull C and Server Meshing style advances, the big "A and Ds", and it's all just coffee shop equivalents, the question is going to keep boiling over: Where is all the good stuff? Why are we just getting coffee dregs for quarter after quarter?

CIG can still try and hype-juice all the grand stuff up via videos alone. Keep it all in the nebulous wonder-future. But you've gotta wonder how long it'll be before some backers harden into a stance of: 'Vids are just vids. Until it's on the roadmap / in the game, I don't care.'

Might sucker some noobs, and keep some hardcore whales happy in the meantime. But is that enough, long-term? The whole 'jam tomorrow' roadmapping has always been a big part of the allure.

(Incidentally this whole PR move kinda suggests even the Tier 0 server meshing isn't going full steam ahead. Seeing as that was meant to be the big distraction for this year. Q3 for the unexciting database addition anybody? ;))
 
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This, for a week of ship sales is crap, the last week of ship sales was more than $15 Million.

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2022 in review ;). (And 2021. And...)

The thing is though, they've just made it easier to spot. If the roadmap doesn't even dangle all the big Hull C and Server Meshing style advances, the big "A and Ds", and it's all just coffee shop equivalents, the question is going to keep boiling over: Where is all the good stuff? Why are we just getting coffee dregs for quarter after quarter?

CIG can still try and hype-juice all the grand stuff up via videos alone. Keep it all in the nebulous wonder-future. But you've gotta wonder how long it'll be before some backers harden into a stance of: 'Vids are just vids. Until it's on the roadmap / in the game, I don't care.'

Might sucker some noobs, and keep some hardcore whales happy in the meantime. But is that enough, long-term? The whole 'jam tomorrow' roadmapping has always been a big part of the allure.

(Incidentally this whole PR move kinda suggests even the Tier 0 server meshing isn't going full steam ahead. Seeing as that was meant to be the big distraction for this year. Q3 for the unexciting database addition anybody? ;))
A lot of us have been in "When it's on my SSD, Ci¬G." mode for quite a few years...especially those of us who've survived a few years into Ci¬G's self made dumpster fire development. The newer guys do what we old farts did in the beginning...expect Ci¬G's marketing tripe to be how it is and then shouting a lot when it isn't. I already roughly predicted 2022 for Star Citizen about 100 pages ago in this very thread...from a realists point of view rather than the hopeful ramblings of the shouty new folk.

As older...but not necessarily wiser backers... what's got our backs up more than the usual beginning of year reality check after Ci¬G's planning week that lasts an entire month, was to be reminded yet again in no uncertain terms that we as long term supporters of this dumpster dive of a project no longer matter since we're not the ones likely to be bringing in the much needed new cash. Knowing that fact as opposed to reading it writ large in a dev blog are two completely different things...we all have our misguided dreams of our contribution being viewed as at least a little bit important. A bit like LEP owners

Living through the development of Star Citizen as a backer is like the death of a thousand cuts...but when Ci¬G themselves start rubbing salt into the already open wounds at the same time as opening a few new cuts, it tends to result in a bit of shouting :)
 
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An Arx store and a thousand ship skins were also delivered! Nav beacons were also delivered! So much stuff delivered! Yet no ship interiors! Or any other meaningful space gameplay after Beyond!
Try as hard as you want, these besides being of debatable interest, were actually delivered. And the final product works, without constant crashing, without constant massive desync, with acceptable physics, semi-decent framerate, etc. Also FDev had a different strategy from CiG: after releasing successfully their initial KS scope, they promised next to nothing, and just delivered that, no disappointment. Meanwhile CiG promised mountains of features, with NPC AI simulation requiring an amount of power similar to the NEC Earth Simulator, and many game loops that are AAA games (remember underwater gameplay with full exploration, aquatic fauna and flora, underwater caves ? Yes, that was a thing, and yes, it's a full fledged game by itself) which of course is absolutely impossible to release in a lifetime. Maybe reducing that feature set back to "space game, with ships and legs, space trucking, mining and fighting" would have been realistic, but CR is still himself and is spending millions on whisky glass simulation and the janitor that will clean up the space station that dirties over time, because yes that's also a thing.
I have a question for you Ebob: where is "salvage" ?
 
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Moist Noodle spends an hour trying to play, and then just seems to walk away from the stream...

Source: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1289128384?t=0h28m00s

"It takes so long to get anywhere" - haven't we said the same thing?

"there's nothing to do in the cities" - haven't we said the same thing?

"there's so much waiting around, and its the boring type of waiting around" - haven't we said the same thing?

LOL, then he goes on to compare the lifts negatively against the lifts in drum roll Cyberpunk :D
 
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